A6.0 Feedback: TEMPERATURE & RADIATION

Discussion in 'FAQ & Feedback' started by Hummel-o-War, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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  2. StyleBBQ

    StyleBBQ Captain

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    On a new single player survival 6.0 easy start Akua game my one Corn sprout died early on.
    Pretty sure the Corn & Wheat froze to death during the night.

    I was trying to grow Corn in order to make more growing plots. The two Plots at the wreckage/shack are outside thus exposed to ambient temp.

    For an 'Easy Start World' guess it seems like a pretty punishing mechanic; like lost on a snowy mountain with one single match left, and a wind blowing :) Personally I think the required materials for growing plots (especially) should all be easily collected like via mining & gathering, not forced POI looting. If someones dug in their heels about changing the materials, then how about if Corn grew out on the Plains?

    (really not a fan of being _dependent_ on being able to grow something in order to be able to craft growing plots; which you -must- have in order to grow things... ack :( circular logic, run away!!) (yeppers, I know the bit about the materials to build a growing plot should be in the Farming thread.)
    (But this here thread is dang-gone good 'nough 'cause old Uncle Freeze killed me corn dang nabit! ...cough... err. sorry. 'Farmer Posession Syndrome' ... every frickin time I touch a shovel! An damned if it ain't everywhere naw days, heck looky on them interwebs! Why there be mill'ons of saights yakkin 'bout FPS, teel you what...)
     
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  3. SciFi

    SciFi Ensign

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    I think that we need an ambient heater. I have a fully underground base that seems to be perma cold. The block right under the grow lights are at 22c but everywhere else is -2 even when the outside temp is in the 20c zone.
     
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  4. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    Your base needs to be sealed by blocks. Terrain will not seal it.
     
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  5. MrFubar

    MrFubar Commander

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    Nigunes starter shack suffers the same problem with its built in grow plots, they are outside and the day time temp there is 0 degrees if you are lucky.

    Radiation, I think it might be a bit high by warp crystals, I posted in another thread but i was getting 14.7 while harvesting the crystals on Akau Moon the easy planet. With my medium armor from Nigunes and 2 rad boosters and 1 eva for temperature i only had a 14 radiation resist. Not sure if rad boosters need more power of the crystals need less rad, but 2 rad boosters in medium armor should allow you to harvest crystals without worry.

    I also had a lot more trouble getting armor adapted to high temperature then low. I can float out in space fine with my eva boosters, but I go to one of the hot planets where it was 100 degrees outside and i start frying immediately, the eva booster doesn't help with this my max temp was 60, i added a temperature booster and it only increased it by 5 to a max of 65, even with all temperature boosters on medium armor that planet would have been impossible.
     
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  6. MrFubar

    MrFubar Commander

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    I posted in bugs but the furnaces seem to put out 250 degrees C temperature, which is fine, but they still put it out even when turned off in the base console.

    Also when existing the room my body temperature seems to drop almost instantly. There is no cooling off period from having a 39 degree body temp it hits 25c in less then 5 seconds.

    I posted suggestions for making the temperature stuff with armor better under the armor feedback thread.
     
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  7. none 2

    none 2 Ensign

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    The dynamics of heat on planets with atmospheres are great! However, in the vacuum of space, as long as a suit can hold the pressure of gases used to maintain dissolved oxygen in the body, you will not freeze to death. Space is a darn good insulator due to the low pressures experienced on the body. If you freeze to death in outer space, it is because you have a drop in pressure inside the suit. Otherwise, planets with atmospheres move air around, allowing the exchange of heat between particles like gas and metal exteriors on a suit (a rather poor insulator). Laws of thermodynamics, pv=nrt, dictate that if pressure drops, temperature drops, but if there is no substance, (n), then heat is a wag (wild a** guess). If this is confusing or unclear, let me know, otherwise, here to help.
     
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  8. none 2

    none 2 Ensign

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  9. none 2

    none 2 Ensign

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    Wish that the drill could be used to collect fertile soil and then just place a tile of fertile soil above a surface of the base. Farming is not that complicated ;) On colder plants, fertile soil may be hard to get to, but for Akua, there is hardly a zone of infertile ground. Just plant some seeds!
     
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  10. Moonsugar

    Moonsugar Rear Admiral

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    Yes - sigh - that has discussed many times before, in epic length. To no avail. The idea of the "cold" in space is cemented into the brain of people, the thermodynamic correct view of temperature is not.
    I dont like to say it, but: live with that or go down in despair.
     
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  11. vxsote

    vxsote Commander

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    It seems that the heating/cooling model is based on convective heat transfer, which is irrelevant when there is basically no surrounding fluid (e.g., in space, as others have mentioned). Radiant heat transfer is still a thing, however, so maintaining a desirable temperature in a suit in space is non-trivial.

    But the effect on the inside of a suit should be dramatically different on a planet vs. in space. Maybe show the player how much thermal radiation is being received, and have different suit boosts to insulate against convective/conductive heat vs. radiant heat. And have active cooling or active heating boosts that consume energy.
     
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  12. MrFubar

    MrFubar Commander

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    While correct most people wont understand. What I suggest is having EVA effect travel on vacuum/space have the temperature boosters for planet side and EVA needed for space, you don't even need to talk about temperature in space, just say EVA protects against the conditions in space or against vacuum. The temperature boosters would need a boost obviously if this was the case as i suggested above, 20 to 50 temp per booster.

    With a setup like that if you were going into a Vacuum you would need 1 eva booster. The temp can still exist separately but at a much more reasonable rate to simulate the radiant transfer that you still need a heated suit, and instead of having some planets where space is colder than others you have solar radiation requiring radiation booster for space in some areas. The space being colder some places than others never really made sense anyway.
     
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  13. vxsote

    vxsote Commander

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    I agree that many players won't understand the actual physics involved, but the mechanic is simple enough that I think a good implementation (and representation on the GUI) would make it very easy to understand what's happening in game. Getting hot when you're in sunlight, and cooling off when you're not - pretty much everyone already gets that (even though the 'cooling' we're used to experiencing is mostly from convection/evaporation).

    I think "the temp can still exist separately but at a much more reasonable rate" would actually cause more confusion than showing a separate, obvious mechanic for solar radiation, even though we're talking about roughly the same experience. The concept of "hot" or "cold" orbits can still be maintained by varying the strength of the solar radiation. Plus I would like to feel the effects while on the planetary surface as well.

    Please also consider this to be an official request for deployable sun-shade blocks, lawn chairs, and beer so I can relax under my CV :)
     
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  14. Menos

    Menos Commander

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    I too think that the effect on plants is way too strong. In the real world plants don't die overnight every night.

    Temperature in space feels unrealistic. I don't remember NASA plugging in Eva boosts. See the detailed explanation above.

    Temperature is way too localized. If I stand in front of my constructor in the space where heat radiates though the glass window on my generator I die from overheating, if I however move one step to the left it's 22°. Same on lava planets: stand on the ground and you die, jump and temperature is just fine.

    It feels stupid that you cannot survive lava planets unless you have the heavy armor looted from a POI, which means it's sheer luck if you can go there or not.

    Radiation is a very irrelevant mechanic atm: you cannot really fight it as you need heavy armor for the high radiation situations, and once you have that radiation never has any effect on you. Also killing yourself is a much more effective solution than anything else should you ever get radiation poisoning, as the effect accumulates so slowly and rarely.

    Overall: a system with potential that is too crudely implemented right now.
     
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  15. rainyday

    rainyday Rear Admiral

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    Most fun planet so far regards temperature and radiation has been Aitis. Its hot and got quite a lot of radiation. You can stock up heavy armour with four insulation boosters to get pretty good (but not full) protection against them - but then you are severely hampering your movement because of the high gravity.

    I think it makes for an interesting gameplay as there is no '1 booster solution' but actual choice you have to make.
     
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  16. Atola

    Atola Commander

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    I need some airtight stairs. Using metal blocks.... Just trying to seal off my plants so they don't die while i'm remodeling my CV.... which is like always. :)
     
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  17. firegold360

    firegold360 Ensign

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    I love Weather systems in game, It add immersion and The large varieties of weather are very neat, It would be really cool to be able to see a storm move across the planets surface or get a warning when a hazardous rain or (potential sandstorm (brown fog with windy effects?)) is moving in so you can leave the planet or board up your windows so to say. Temperature is very interesting, I wish there were easier ways to deal with them early game, maybe add different armors you can build that slow the transition into too hot or too cold (Insulated armor for cold, maybe slower movement as a downside? Similar to light armor but less usefull during combat)(Water Cooled armor, Maybe has much less armor or similar to the Insulated but for heat?), that way the EVA booster isnt irrelevant. At work so please forgive quick response issues.
     
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  18. Morrigan

    Morrigan Lieutenant

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    Well, you could do one of two things.
    1) remodel your ship in a breathable atmosphere. This can be risky because inclement weather can still kill your plants. Alternately, build a shipyard station in orbit that can accommodate the entirety of your CV, which is, admittedly, expensive, time consuming, and often impractical.
    2) build an airtight scaffolding around your hydroponics section. Also a hassle, but subject to far less mishaps and more practical than an all purpose CV docking bay that your ship may not even fit into.
    3) Put an airtight door at the floor or top of your stair blocks. It means you'll need a ventilator block for the hydroponics room apart from the rest of your ship, but they're not THAT expensive and partitioning the interior of your ship is just good practice anyways in case you warp into reach of a patrol of drones, or enter atmosphere directly above a PV or something.
    I'm kind of in agreement with you two. The sudden drop in temperature from vacuum is kind of strange when there's nothing to transfer the heat to. Radiant heat from nearly solar bodies is something that should be addressed, yes. Instead of the EVA providing such ludicrous amounts of cold protection, vacuum should be addressed as a more rapid expenditure of O2 as the non-EVA suit wouldn't be as secure from leakage. The mechanic of the massive armor reduction makes sense for the EVA suit because those seals would be vulnerable. Although a better implementation of this, imo, is that your O2 expenditure in vacuum is higher, AND taking any damage would not only impact your health but potentially cause a suit rupture which would start leaking air REALLY fast, a condition that would have no effect when you're in a breathable environment such as planetside or in a sealed base/CV/SV/whatever. This could be repaired by a repair station, or by patches. EVA mods would render a suit immune to a rupture (The status being applied to the armor rather than the player) but would not repair an already ruptured suit.

    For that matter, if they want the cold mechanic to be a thing, it could be a temperature drop while the suit has a rupture, given the effects of expanding a volume of gas which I can't for the life of me think of the actual name for right now. #brainfail
     
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    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
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  19. Atola

    Atola Commander

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    What i did eventually was use the "Beam" blocks and other blocks that shouldn't block temperature to block temperature changes. I decided it was OK to use things that realistically shouldn't do what they do to stop something from happening that realistically shouldn't happen anyway....
     
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  20. [Ghetto]Two Shoe$

    [Ghetto]Two Shoe$ Commander

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    Hummel. I do hope this small input here reaches you :

    The Armor (space suit) needs to be able to project a "forcefield barrier", strictly in the sense of how doorways and
    such are sealed from the outside at the cost of 5- 10 minutes per small promethium pack.(with the ability to toggle the effect on and off)

    This way, the existing stats + mods in any given armor can remain valuable just as they are now, but thermal and radiaton hazards can be dodged, and players can actually move about in an environment in medium and light armor instead of always having to be in heavy.

    The purpose of heavy was to bring damage mitigation to the table, not just its obvious benefits to a platform that could provide environmental protection at no energy cost.
     
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