Alpha 5.0: Out Now!

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by EleonGameStudios, Dec 20, 2016.

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  1. Moonsugar

    Moonsugar Well-Known Member

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    Those posts may origin to experimental nature of this new feature, when it was not clear at first, if the design of the ship or of the engines was wrong. Now there are little complaints left.
    While mass distribution of a SV is without regard, it matters on HV, a lot. You should control that from time to time with the building tool: press 'N', select 'show center of mass' and watch the yellow and blue balls: yellow shows the center of geometry, blue that of mass. I have had good results, if: The center of mass lies centered lateral, as deep as possible and slightly before the center of geometry. The hoover engines are equally distributed along the outline of the HV, at least on in every corner (usually some type of rectangle). To guarantee to digging in the ground with the nose, i place one additional hoover engine on the very tip of the craft, therefore i had the center of mass set slightly before the geometrical one.
    If there are too little h-engines, you will constantly bump into the ground. Too many, and flying gets less stable (whats good for maneuverability, if you can handle it and is not exaggerated). Lastly the acceleration by your thrusters is important. When going a slope, physics is quite good simulated here: the steeper the slope, the less of the weight of the HV can be lifted by the hoover engines, and the more the thrusters have to work. The better the acceleration in a given direction, the steeper the slope you can go. That is really important for mining with the new drills: If your backward acceleration cannot hold the ships weight at the steep angles, you need to drill, it will dig its own grave. While you can get away with pronouncing the forward acc and neglecting lateral and backwards on usual travelling, you have to make sure for certain amounts of acc in every direction for mining. If you want to be sure, you go for slightly more than the gravitational acc on the planet you are on: 8m/s^2 on Akua, 10 on Omicron and so on.

    Uuups, got quite long... sorry for offtopic here. I do post it nevertheless, maybe Arrclyde was just the only one who did actually ask.
    And, as always: this is just my experience, i could be wrong.
     
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  2. Arrclyde

    Arrclyde Well-Known Member

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    Well that is something that came to my mind, but i never actually thought one could be that simple (saw one today on steam who listed that as a problem still). I am all for simply game mechanics, but what is simpler than an HV? It is almost like a car: put 4 wheels (hoverengines) on each corner and it runs and since there is no suspension the weight shows by the one side the HV leans towards.

    On the HV mechanics and the new drills: i love the idea and hope it works just the way i plan. This is going to be great.

    Edit:
    @Moonsugar , thanks for the hint with the N-key buildinfo. I'll check that too. Till now i just went by what my guts tell me, and it works out quiet fine. Math has never been my favorite class in school ;-)
     
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  3. Captain Jack II

    Captain Jack II Well-Known Member

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    Great post. There is always a discussion about too complex vs too simple, but I really really like the "physics" of the HV's now. To the life long engineer, maybe the Empyrion laws of physics aren't perfectly accurate, and to the guy that struggles with making a paper airplane, they might be a little too real, but there is a very large sweet spot in-between.

    On a side note, with every update it seems, there is kickback from the community, especially those that spend a LOT of time playing and building things a certain way, and then get outraged when their saved game or creations get broken. It's absolutely understandable, no one likes to waste time or have their time wasted, but I'd rather the devs ruffle some feathers in alpha in the name of progress, than stagnate for the sake of backward compatibility.
     
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  4. XeroTerragoth

    XeroTerragoth Well-Known Member

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    Wow they got this out even faster than I had assumed it would happen. I figured maybe by the weekend or early next week. Impressive work (as usual) Eleon! :D

    What with breaking my foot last weekend, I didn't really get much time to try out the experimental branch. Here's hoping I can rectify that issue this week!
     
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  5. medicineman

    medicineman Well-Known Member

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    Loving this update! By the way much thanks to the community for their hard producing new content. The new bases are awesome and have added so much to the game!

    Also Masperon is a lot of fun and feels really alien!
     
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  6. Frigidman

    Frigidman Well-Known Member

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    So very true, and I totally agree.
     
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  7. Fractalite

    Fractalite Well-Known Member

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    They will typically tip, wobble, or struggle under these conditions:

    - The vessel is very narrow and the engines are placed along the thinnest part of the axis.

    - The vessel is too light weight relative to the number of hover engines.

    - The vessel has a ton of hover engines on one side, and only a few on the other.

    - The vessel has odd protrusions that stick out and are not covered by the engine placement.


    Avoid these, and the new hover mechanics are astounding!
     
    #27
  8. piddlefoot

    piddlefoot Well-Known Member

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    Yea the HVs are wikid now, I even actually build them in survival again, they have come full circle from 2 years ago, they are so much better now, the old system was a pain, the new system rocks. The focus on HVs is done for now though, and I recon they did a good job of it, they will move onto flight controls of SV CV s soon so that will be nice to see the other machines that fly in the game get some Newtonian love.

    We might see submarine cores and ship cores yet too, with totally different mechanics to them, would be nice to also have a SV Bomber core with slightly different flight controls to the SV we have now.
    Lots of things are possible in Empyrion, the devs have given Empyrion a file system that is really adaptable and easy to mod.
    They have been so busy with AI and what not, let me all have a rest over x-mass and see what magic they pull out of the hat next year.
    5.0 is awesome.
     
    #28
  9. SoCalExile

    SoCalExile Active Member

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    So how do we get the NPC ships and the New Masperon on our player servers without a complete wipe?
     
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  10. Siege Inc.

    Siege Inc. Well-Known Member

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    Couple thoughts on the new HV drills.

    1) I think the range is a little too short on the drill module. I'd advocate extending them just a smidge. Not much. Just a little bit.

    2) Any thoughts on adding different size drills? Maybe some right click functionality there and then have some drills for mining ore and some for simply tunneling and different sizes ranging from the current to maybe a really big drill head(maybe can only have one of these). Something like the drill heads you see on those big tunnel boring machines.

    3) Turret drill: Range of motion when trying to point downwards seems overly restrictive to me. I was trying to use it to get a tunnel started on flat ground because my HV wouldn't tilt far enough to start one but it doesn't tilt down much at all. This is also why I advocated extending the range of the drill module(or maybe adding a T2 drill bit with slightly extended range). My HV was pointed at the ground. The drill heads were in contact but apparently I needed a steeper angle.

    I'm still working with the mechanics and it does seem like I can work around it if I adjust the placement of the hover engines but even so, I think the turret should have a greater range of motion and the drill modules could stand to have their range extended ever so slightly.
     
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  11. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Well-Known Member

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    Have ya tried Updating Graphics Card Drivers?

    In no particular order:
    • Weight Distribution in HV mechanics is a thing... some may still need a copy of this Memo.
    • CoM Overlay can help if needing to diagnose issues, & decide if application & location of application of Artificial Mass Blocks is warranted.
    • If the HV Base is too tall & too narrow in width, of course it will be flipsy & tipsy. :p Wider is more stable... & this includes with placement of Hover Engines.
    • it's possible to place TOO many Hover Engines compared to Weight of the HV. Also it's no easy thing to do to make a Micro HV lighter then 15 Tons work adequately even with just modest use of T1 Hover Engines.
    • It'll take time for people to get the hang of placement of HV Mining Drills, especially cause they currently aren't great at hitting stuff beside them... the main attack area for them is in front of their tip of their Drill Head.
    • Don't forget the Harvest Boxes. ;)
    • Mining HVs benefit GREATLY from massive amounts of RCS power.
    Hope this helps. :)

    Hope this was aimed at the Empyrion Devs, cause they still might be needing told this from time to time. :p

    & if they stick a Hover Booster or two on & can't figure out why they still can't Hover at all, they not only need to READ Item Descriptions, but also Read Forum News Updates more often. :p
    Hell yeah! It's completely utterly selfish for peeps to try to ORDER this game to quit growing, & evolving, & never get complete so those peeps can sit there & never have to adapt to a ALPHA GAME that is CLEARLY stated to not be complete yet. Trying to FORCE a Incomplete Game to act like a Complete Game is NOT a strategy. It indicates that those peeps are being selfish & trying to act like spoiled rotten brats that think they're entitled to have a full complete game for a Alpha Game price & impossibly fast Game Development Time. *Facepalm*

    *Imagines a SV's XXL Jet Thruster mount getting blown up & the Jet Thruster flying off into Space, then a CV accidentally flying right into it & getting it right up the Kisser... & Grins* :D

    On the other hand, it might also make Ships a bigger pain in the ass to get built in Creative, but hopefully there's plans along the lines of dealing with this as well. :)
     
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  12. Frigidman

    Frigidman Well-Known Member

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    I think the biggest issue is the drills dont actually chew a 'bubble' around them. So if you bump the 'side' of the drill head on dirt... it wont remove that dirt. It only shoots a ray out forward, then pops a voxel deformation of a certain size (that size was increased during testing to what it is now). The further they put that ray shot out, the worse trying to actually drill around you or turn in holes and tunnels it became.

    It was not good when they extended the drill module range.

    As for #2: Yeah, would be nice to RMB with the drills just to remove dirt (but I guess it isnt that hard to trash unwanted stone until that happens).

    And #3: The turret ... you are on the mark. It needs better range of motion. But no to extending the range of the drill modules again. Really, its not good when it was that way ;)
     
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  13. Captain Jack II

    Captain Jack II Well-Known Member

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    Vote Empyrion and it's team Indie Game of the Year: 1 hour left!!!!!

    http://www.indiedb.com/groups/2016-indie-of-the-year-awards/top100

    Nice update guys, as usual, I suspect a lot of work went into this one. And I keep asking, being in the over commercialized Christmas holiday here in the USA, we sometimes give gifts of thanks, in appreciation, for no good reason at all. PayPal. Do you speak it!?
     
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  14. Fractalite

    Fractalite Well-Known Member

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    Best part of the new HV starter:


    Creative_12_2016-12-20_17-59-31.png


    Very, very clever. I love it.
     
    #34
  15. Captain Jack II

    Captain Jack II Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what she said?!!!

    If you had a steeper angle, you'd probably take damage. When I jacked my miner up on one side, I was able to get enough angle to start drilling, but it wiped out terrain under my ship. Guessing it's limited to avoid drilling yourself.
     
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  16. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Well-Known Member

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    Wasting Resources... you actually consider that an option... :( *Facepalm*

    This is exactly the kinda attitude that caused the Human Race's problems & is causing them to even need to search for Empyriona lame idiotic attempt to search for a magic band aid fix substitute for actual logical competent thinking, instead of actually bother to deign to actually solve problems... *More Facepalming*

    Frigid, you showoff! XD
     
    #36
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  17. Captain Jack II

    Captain Jack II Well-Known Member

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    Resources Matter. It's a movement. We're gonna need a flag to wave.
     
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  18. Siege Inc.

    Siege Inc. Well-Known Member

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    It's just the drill module points forward but the ground is down. I had the drill modules tilted at the ground but they weren't biting in. I've had some success moving the forward hover engines back some so the HV is forward heavy and I've been experimenting with the drill modules placement. I can use the hover booster to get some air and do a dive into the dirt. That works. It's just....silly.

    I guess this is going to take some getting used to.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
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  19. Captain Jack II

    Captain Jack II Well-Known Member

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    I like that we don't really know how it's supposed to work. I too wonder if I'm doing it right... maybe it's not supposed to work like we think it should work? I'm ok with that... kinda.
     
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  20. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Well-Known Member

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    Idea: instead of WSAD + Arrow Keys + Mouse, how about WSAD + Mouse alone? I Mouse Pan my HV down then Drill + Drive my HV in forward direction & I plow into the Rock just fine. :) (I never have been able to understand why anyone uses the Arrow Keys when ya can do the same thing & more with the Mouse. If ya aren't gonna Mouse Turn, Aim, & such, might as well use a Controller instead imho. & yes I do know Empyrion needs work at Controller Support, that's a side issue imho.)
     
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