Color Pallet

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Fisch050, Jul 1, 2017.

  1. Fisch050

    Fisch050 Lieutenant

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    When creating a character, the full multi-million color pallet is available. When using the color tool, only 32 colors are available, and one of them is the null/default color. The color tool should allow for the full multi-million color pallet modern hardware permits! This isn't the 1990's. We're not limited to 32 colors anymore.
     
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  2. Requiemfang

    Requiemfang Commander

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    YUS PLZ, full RGB color pallet being available for all blocks would be wonderful.
     
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  3. Siege Inc.

    Siege Inc. Captain

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    I've never liked that color picker but I do agree the game could use more color options. I wouldn't mind a larger predefined list alongside the color picker.
     
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  4. oojimaflip

    oojimaflip Captain

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  5. Requiemfang

    Requiemfang Commander

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    why would file size get larger if your applying color? I thought it was the size of ship and what it's constructed with that adjusts the file size, especially how many blocks the blueprint is constructed out of.
     
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  6. Frigidman

    Frigidman Rear Admiral

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    -yoink, see below-

    :D
     
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    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  7. oojimaflip

    oojimaflip Captain

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    the colour for each face of a block has to be stored in the blueprint itself, since each face can be coloured independantly each face must also be stored independantly. Working with a palette of 32 colours means colour information in the blueprint is kept relatively small, now imagine if we had access to just the reduced colour set of 16 million colours.

    We don'r really need a massive pallette of colours to choose from, just the ability to modify and store the palette along with the blueprint, 32 RGB values isn't a lot extra to store.

    edit: @Frigidman sneaky:cool:
     
    #7
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
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  8. Frigidman

    Frigidman Rear Admiral

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    My bad. A Reprint for public

    Color Tool Enhancement Idea

    Please bear with this long post. I wrote it out as detailed as I saw appropriate to help convey what I believe is a plausible idea, and hopefully something that may be considered. IE This is by no means a demand ;)

    --

    When the Color Tool was first introduced, I was stoked. Colors! But, having come from Space Engineers (booo), I was a little bummed you didn't give us a color wheel. So I pressed on. After many builds later, and always grousing when I open the Color Window because the choices are so limited (what I call choices, so many of those colors I just dont use lol), I began some other suggestions about expanding the color palette you may have seen.

    But then, I started mulling this new idea around and thinking more about it... and how its flexible enough to actually fit in the current system, but give us a wide range of choices. I mean, we dont need 60 colors to choose from and put all on one ship. We just need to customize the smaller choices PER ship.

    So here go...

    I assume right now you store colors per surface on an entity as an index (to shave 2 bytes per surface instead of using a 3byte rbg value). This still can be used with my proposal. However the index would point to a "Color Table for that entity only" (the Color Table would be stored with the entity data, blueprint, poi, saves).

    So how would this work?

    In a nutshell, the Color Chooser window would have colors for the entity you are aiming at based on the setup Color Table for 'that' entity (much like how textures change based on the kind of block you are looking at).

    First a user grabs the color tool, they aim at their ship/base, and right-click. This opens up the Color Chooser window pretty much as you see it now. However there is a small change. A note to "Press E to Edit Color Table". Pressing "E" would essentially go into a new UI panel that is fully intractable (much like the Control Panel "P" is). This "E" key thing would only register when the Color Chooser window is 'open', obviously, because "E" normally is "Roll Right" (and this key could conceivably be added to keybinds down the line).

    egs-color-chooser.jpg

    So, the Color Table Editor UI panel would have an extra pop panel for editing a color selected in the grid, and a list list on the side for where you can save and restore various color tables to your pleasure (stored locally, not in the entity).

    egs-color-editor-panel.jpg (note you wont be able to change the default color pallets, just make new ones)

    The list would always have at top "Default Colors". So you can load up the color table as we have it now (and what is always setup whenever you drop a new BA/CV/SV/HV Starter Block). Then the list would have anything you had saved below (editing and such is like how Control Panel behaves).

    Now here is where the real fun part comes. You can setup a Color Table to your liking for the ship you want to make. Making it camo? Or Many Shades of Purple and Green? Or simply want a fully gray-scale ship with 31 shades? Well, you can. Set it up, save the Color Table (for use in the future), and continue on building/coloring your ship.

    As an added bonus (something really neat), is if you change a color in the Color Table for an entity, it changes that color where used ON that entity. No need to go find and repaint every surface to something else! So imagine you spawn in some ship, and don't like how they have the main body color. Well, open up the Color Table, and go into Edit mode... find the body color and change it. It then applies to the whole ship for that body color. This also means you could spawn in multiple of the same ship, and swap their 'highlight' color(s) so they are mostly coordinated per ship for a fleet. Really powerful and fun thing here.

    On top of that, this could even be used for POI spawning systems. You could store multiple Color Tables per single POI, and then the spawner system randomly chooses one of those tables to spawn with. Now you have one entity for Alien Artifact, but 10 different color themes for it without having to make 10 whole different POI saves!

    Now, given how this is, I foresee a lot of people not even changing the default colors (heck, many dont even USE colors). They will just work away using the first popup window of default choices. However the ability for the advanced builders, would be there and usable. It also means that spawning someone elses blueprint, you now hove the proper color table to work with if you adjust that ship.

    This is my proposal. This is my hope. That someday, something like this, or exactly like this, is a new feature mentioned. Thank you for reading all of this.
     
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  9. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Captain

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    I thought that maybe adding a small set of tiny dots patterns to the texture & symbol tool could at least simulate some darker versions of the colors on blocks...
     
    #9
  10. Fisch050

    Fisch050 Lieutenant

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    If I understand you correctly, right now 3 bytes are needed to store all the colors for each side of every block (4 bits/1 nibble/1/2 byte) per side. That would grow to 18 bytes per block (3 bytes per side). That is a growth factor of 6x. OK. Limit the palette to 256 colors, or 1 byte per side. The growth would then be 2x. 6 bytes to store all the colors for every block.

    Also, we are assuming worst case scenario here - every block face is a different color. In reality, most block faces are the same color. Simple compression will drop that size amount considerably. The gap may not be a full 6x. Regardless, it is greatly desired to have more colors available. Going to 256 colors would be a vast improvement, without blowing up the file size.
     
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  11. Frigidman

    Frigidman Rear Admiral

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    You really don't need 256 colors on 'one' entity. Trying to manage and get the colors right would be a nightmare. If everytime you got a huge color picker wheel when changing colors, how are you ever going to get the right color again (and quickly) while painting and styling a ship or base? And if you say "type in the same three digit code", then I can tell you... ask any serious builder if they are going to put up with that when trying to do rapid builds.

    The way our chooser is now, is extremely quick to use. RMB its up, quickly pick one of 32 easy to see choices, closes, done. Its extremely fast and fluid.

    Now, with the idea of allowing a custom pallet per ship/base... allows people to setup ANY (from the millions) 31 colors they wish to use for that ship. And the only 'size growth' needed, is a small table of the 31 colors. As every color still on the entity is referenced by ID.

    Having 31 colors custom per entity, allows a very wide range in flexibility. Color coordination works just fine in 32 colors (ask any good commercial designer ;) ).
     
    #11
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  12. Requiemfang

    Requiemfang Commander

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    Hmmm doesn't SE have a similar system for colors? I could swear they do, I haven't played SE in a while sooo yeah.
     
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  13. Czyrek-Marc

    Czyrek-Marc Ensign

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    This a thousand times over. Just have an extra button on the color selector that designates the pallet name (starting with default). this would open a pallet manager that lets you modify, save, and delete pallets locally. Whenever you select a different pallet and start using it, it would automatically convert the ship to using that pallet (thus it would also be a fast way to repaint a downloaded ship!).

    QOL additions:
    You could also select an eye dropper tool that you could target any ship you can hit with it to load up your tool with it's pallet (and give you the option to save it with a name).

    You should also receive a warning when you go to paint a ship with a different pallet, so you don't accidentally screw up a ship you used a different pallet on. (you could even run a compare on the player's pallets and give them an option to save the old pallet before swapping if they didn't have one that color matched it)

    Workshop enable pallets, for those with good color eyes to share with the community :)
     
    #13
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
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  14. Fisch050

    Fisch050 Lieutenant

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    I like the idea of being able to use a custom color palette. The GIF file format is based on such an idea, and it is extremely usable and flexible. It only falls down when you want to do some kind of crazy fade/blend. All the features and such can be hashed out (Czyrek-Marc has listed quite a few possibilities), but adding the ability to customize the color palette is a great and (presumably) fairly easily-implemented idea.
     
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  15. GTv

    GTv Captain

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    A hex color code is a tiny tiny amount of data. Even if every single block face had a different color(very ugly and no one will do that) it would still be a tiny amount of data.
    There should also be varieties of each color with a characteristic look such as metallic, cloth, leather, wood, and plastic or rubber.
    I have been asking for this ever since playing Black Desert Online and seeing their pallets. Amazing stuff.
     
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  16. GTv

    GTv Captain

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    This would be a lot better if the pallets are mix and matchable so you can use some colors from one and some from another.
     
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  17. oojimaflip

    oojimaflip Captain

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    4 Bytes per colour
    6 colours per block = 24 Bytes
    100k block ship colour info now comes to 2.4MB, tiny?

    current top spot on the workshop ticker, blueprint size 0.074MB, do you see a problem with your assessment now?
     
    #17
  18. GTv

    GTv Captain

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    You are confusing bits with bytes.
    This is a 24 bit color chart
    [​IMG]
    I would be happy with 24 BIT color chart in the game.
    The colors require 24bits to store the data, not 4 bytes.

    A bit is a 1 or a 0
    A byte is 64 bits in the case of a 64bit OS

    Using 24 bits to encode color information allows [​IMG] different colors to be represented, and this is sufficient to cover the full range of human color perception fairly well.
     
    #18
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  19. Kieve

    Kieve Captain

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    I do not understand this "memory" argument at all. Fact-check, all blueprints are already storing color (and texture) information per block, per side. File-sizes are not going to magically balloon in scope just from extra color options.
     
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  20. Czyrek-Marc

    Czyrek-Marc Ensign

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    This sounds fine, as long as they have a commonly used color pallet or way to save pallets/eyedropper. It would keep the ease of use level up, while still giving you options. If every time you right clicked the tool you only got a color picker it would be a pain.

    As for file size ballooning, I dont think this would be a major issue from a download from the workshop perspective, but may create a larger burden for the server if it is having to keep track of several hundred ships and constantly pass these around to clients with that large of a file size. the less footprint ships have, the less strain they'll have on the whole multiplayer experience.
     
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