[GUIDE] Fuel tank explosion damage (alpha 6)

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by En_Ma, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. En_Ma

    En_Ma Commander

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    tl;dr: The most efficient end secure way of shielding your fuel tanks on CVs is to stack T3 tanks one on top of the other (the sides with the circles, not the glowing sides) and encasing the stack in normal steel blocks, ending with a 4x3xWhateverLongOrHigh thing.


    You need to protect your fuel tanks, if they get shot they can explode damaging the surrounding blocks... but how exactly should you protect them?

    I'll tackle T3 CV fuel tanks first, because CVs have a much steeper price than anything else.

    The explosion radius is about 4 blocks, with decreasing damage as far as you go, but there is some weird stuff going on.

    The setup:
    tank_damage-000.png

    I shot the tanks from an angle with a rifle, not to contaminate the data with penetrating shots.

    Results (in points of damage):
    tank_damage-001.png

    As you can see, if the explosion is free to expand, it can damage blocks VERY FAR from the tank.



    Conclusions so far:

    T3 fuel tanks on CV:
    - Normal steel is more than enough to contain fuel tank explosions. (even with a chain reaction going on, a block will take at most 64 damage, out of 500 hp)
    - You should always fully enclose a stack of tanks to avoid damage to the surrounding blocks.
    - Orientation matters: the downside (blue mesh part) of the tank does more damage than the top. It also matters which side the rotational axis is (axis part does more and more widespread damage).
    -Stacking order matters. A stack of T3 tanks piled one on top of another never chain reacts, and seems to be the best bet so far. (stacking them by the thin side is giving me inconsistent results so far)

    T2 fuel tanks on CV:
    - You can avoid chain explosions only by stacking them on top of one another.

    T1 fuel tanks on CV:
    - They always chain explode if stacked.

    Large O2 tanks on CV:
    - They never chain explode. (they don't do very much damage exploding too)

    Fuel Tanks on SV:
    - you can avoid chain explosions only by stacking them on top of one another (the side with the circle, not the glowing one), otherwise they always chain explode.

    Explosions in general:
    - If a tank explosion destroys a block, it stops there. So you could even one-time shield your fuel tanks by bringing me a shrubbery and covering them with potted plants.



    Since we do not have threadmarks, here are the next posts:
    - how rotation matters.
    - CV T3 tanks chain explosion.
    - CV T2 and T1 tanks chain explosion.

    Many thanks to @Friendly Timo for his comments, which bugged me enough to actually check for myself, and to @rainyday whose invaluable guides inspired this one.
    And many thanks to @geostar1024 too, who is very good at inventing new and exciting ways for blowing stuff up, and whose questions made for a way more complete guide.
     
    #1
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  2. Friendly Timo

    Friendly Timo Lieutenant

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    Wow! I am glad I provoked you enough to made this indepth study into this matter. Really nicely done man! I really do appriciate the level of detail you covered it. This is super useful information and I am really looking forward on your analysis of other tanks including O2 tanks.

    Thank you! :)
     
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  3. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    Question: is that diagonal block (that doesn't take any damage) the one next to the rotation axis of the tank or not?
     
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  4. En_Ma

    En_Ma Commander

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    < previous (open space vs walls)
    next (T3 tanks chain explosions) >

    You do raise a very good question. Turns out it matters.

    I tried with a "fully" enclosed box (I need at least a free block to shoot at the thing, so I built a long tunnel to avoid backblow)

    Front view (blue squares are where the tank was), notice how the blocks near the rotation axis indeed take more damage.
    The Downside (blue mesh) of the tank is down in the images.

    tank_damage-005.png

    Side views:
    tank_damage-003.png tank_damage-004.png

    I'm not sure why there's additional damage to that one block, but I guess it could be because of the shooting tunnel. I'll try having it in different places and see if it matters.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  5. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, it's what I suspected: the blast rays look like they emanate from the "center" block of the device. I'm also pretty sure that the mass of a device is also concentrated at that block.

    Anyway, so the takeaway from all of this is that one should fully enclose one's fuel tanks, perhaps alternating the location of the rotation point to spread out the damage to the surrounding blocks. One further question: is the damage that an adjacent take tanks enough to cause a chain-reaction?
     
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  6. En_Ma

    En_Ma Commander

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    < previous (orientation axis effect)
    (T1 and T2 tanks chain explosion) next >

    EDIT: well, this is embarassing. I must have managed to contaminate the data somehow, and now I cannot manage to make thin-side-by-thin-side T3 tanks chain explode anymore. Weird. Updated data.

    You're way better at finding ways to make stuff explode than me ;)

    And the answer is: depends.

    • A stack of T3 tanks one on top of another does not chain react.
    • Grouped by the flat side they always chain reacts.
    • If you group them by the thin side they do not chain react. (AN: I've found some weird behaviour on this, so try not stack them so to until I nailed why I've sometimes be able to chain explode them in this configuration)

    Picture for (hopefully) more clarity
    tank_damage-006.png
     
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    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017 at 8:30 AM
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  7. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    Yet one more question (to which I sort of suspect the answer is "yes," based on the previous information in this thread): does a chain-reaction depend on the orientation of the tanks (i.e. if you keep the rotation points away from each other, does it help?)?
     
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  8. En_Ma

    En_Ma Commander

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    It is, I edited the post above not to spread the information too thin.
     
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  9. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    For the .||..||. configuration, do two of the tanks blow up (the .||. set) leaving the rest ok?
     
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  10. N99024

    N99024 Captain

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    Great guide btw, but you'd think if they are touching that they should always explode. Weird.
     
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  11. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Rear Admiral

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    Very interesting results... I wonder what @Hummel-o-War thinks about this & if this is working as Intended...?
     
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  12. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    Given the damage seems to be asymmetric, I can't think it's intentional; I'd guess it was easiest just to set the explosion origin point at the "center" of the device (the bottom block that the vertical rotation axis goes through) no matter what size the device was.
     
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  13. En_Ma

    En_Ma Commander

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    < previous (T3 tanks chain explosion)

    Here we go with other types of tank, much simpler with these ones.

    Large O2 tanks never chain explode, no matter how you stack them. (They do a very small amount of damage)

    T1 tanks ALWAYS chain react if close together, no matter the stacking mode.
    T2 tanks do not chain react only if stacked one on top of the other.

    SV tanks do not chain react only if stacked one on top of the other (Like the T2 tanks they share the model with)

    tank_damage-007.png
     
    #13
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017 at 8:32 AM
  14. Friendly Timo

    Friendly Timo Lieutenant

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    Hmmm that is highly strange isn't it? I wonder if there is some randomness programmed into the explosion damage? They seem to give a bit different amount of damage at random. So basically it would be most effective to use S2 and/or S3 fuel tanks on CV's and stack the fueltanks but separate the stacks from each other with one layer of steel. Awesome!
     
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  15. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    This is frustratingly hard to test, as I initially got T3 tanks packed side-by-side to chain react, but sometimes they don't seem to want to. Orientation seems to matter a lot. The only thing consistent that I've found is if you have a bunch of tanks together, and you destroy first one, and then any of the other ones that were damaged by the first explosion, all of the remaining tanks chain react. 2x2 blocks of tanks with alternating directions can usually stop chain reactions from single tanks being destroyed, but not when multiple tanks are destroyed.

    Generally, the safest configuration does seem to be vertical stacks of tanks, separated by from other stacks by steel blocks. If the explosions did more damage to steel blocks, things would get interesting, I suspect.
     
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  16. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Rear Admiral

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    Curiosity... I wonder how CV T2 Large Fuel Tanks would react to Chain Explosion if they're laid on their side?
     
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  17. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    See @En_Ma 's post 3 above yours; they test a bunch of different configurations for T2 tanks. T2 tanks don't seem to chain-react when laid end-to-end, but do when side-by-side.
     
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  18. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Rear Admiral

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    I was meaning if the Fuel Tank was laid out like:

    [][]

    Instead of the more typical:

    []
    []

    Thus the 'Mesh' of the Tank was pointing sideways instead of up or down.
     
    #18
  19. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    I'm still not sure of the orientation you're thinking of. Do you mean two T2 fuel tanks placed so that their long sides are in contact (which I would call horizontally stacked; as opposed to having their short sides in contact (vertically stacked))?
     
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  20. En_Ma

    En_Ma Commander

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    so... stacked one on top of the other? I'm pretty sure I covered all the possible stacking modes in the image. Mind maybe posting one? even using the thin cylinder block shape as proxies it's good.
     
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