So who's liking the new fusion fuel?

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by DeadSchism, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. nexus_absolute

    nexus_absolute Captain

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    I think the fusion cells are good and welcome them. They may have the same fuel benefit vs cost as other sources but we can pack more in a tank, doubling our fuel capacity.

    Spare O2 presents an opportunity. Some have already been mentioned: E.g Fuel for some weapons, either as a staple or a requirement for firing them in space.

    It has been indicated by the devs that we can expect true water planets which will need a steady stream of O2.

    If we get pressurized structures then these may need alot of O2 to maintain.

    How about some sort of afterburner or thruster benefit. Lets farm nitrogen and make N2O.

    I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to chemistry but there must be other things we can combine with O2 that could be incorporated into the game, and would add some new basic resources to the game.
     
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  2. Alo

    Alo Captain

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    Or.......we just get a pure hydrogen generator (only gathers hydrogen); problem solved.
     
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  3. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I mentioned that in a suggestions thread I created a while back...plenty of options, though a simple check box for the existing H2/O2 might be easier to implement. Plus no new model or anything. Personally, I'd likely only have one out of every three H2/O2 also producing O2 if it was an option.

    Scoob.
     
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  4. Alo

    Alo Captain

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    I currently run some 25-30 hydrogen generators. I only take 02 cells from one or two of them. The rest I destroy.
     
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  5. nexus_absolute

    nexus_absolute Captain

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    Nothing wrong with hydrogen only generator, and it would be easier to impliment. I just feel that more uses for the spare O2 would be better and enhance the game. You no want NOS?

    Yes - change the ratios. Keep the rate of hydrogen the same but half the oxygen. More realistic.
     
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  6. dichebach

    dichebach Commander

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    I cannot recall if there is that "trash" cell you can drop stuff into in any of the panes in Survival mode. I do recall it being present in two or more different UI panes in Creative . . . so if my memory is flawed, then this comment is moot, but . . . seems like the only way to "throw stuff away" in survival is to just drop it on the ground?

    I think this is not an ideal solution to the "excess O2" problem. For one thing, increasing piles of randomly rendered "garbage drops" might negatively impact application performance, especially on a server with lots of playfields / lots of players. For another, it looks like crap. And lastly, it remains unclear to me how the app decides when something tha thas been "dropped" has expired and should be destroyed out of the render screen. I think this aspect of the code might be a bit 'touchy' and adding more game mechanics to it might not be the best idea.

    I seem to recall at least one thread on here where people were lamenting that many items cannot be "recycled" or reduced back to their constituent parts, and I think we can regard the "excess O2" issue as just another example of that same 'problem.'

    And so, a good solution might be a: "Recycler" machine that can be placed in a base and/or a CV. You put stuff into it, it breaks them down into their constituent parts. In the case of "containers" that hold a second substance (nutrient packs, water, promethium, O2) there are a lot of possibilities,but the one I like the best are: another suite of machines (BA only or CV maybe) called: "Bulk Storage Tank" and a block called "Duct" or Conduit (yes this is sounding very much like Minecraft, but since I'm a user not an Eleon developer, I can suggest this, they are not guilty of "copying" and then they can in good conscience put it in the game! :) ) --> you hook up a system of Ducts to your machines, hook up some Bulk Storage Tanks, open the control panels for each storage tank and set one to "Oxygen" one to "Water" one to "Nutrient Solution," another to "Iron Dust" another to "Copper Dust," etc., etc. = user gets to setup actual FACTORIES!

    Toss a pistol in the recycler and right-click it to make it process (or turn the thing on or whatever is easiest/most sensible as far as UI goes) -> it spits out the parts that went into make the pistol (with some random chance that a piece gets broken / not recovered, in which case, that part is instead changed into a reduced number of "dust" for the elements it comprises. For example a pistol comprises
    5 Metal Components.
    1 Metal Component = 1 iron & 1 cobalt ingot.

    Lets assume that 1 ingot = 10 powder for that element.

    So recycle a pistol, if the random chance for breakage doesn't fire (could vary depending on numerous factors) you get -> 50 iron powder & 50 cobalt powder.

    If the random chance fires and one metal component is broken, then maybe you only get 40 iron powder and 40 cobalt powder.
     
    #46
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  7. Moonsugar

    Moonsugar Captain

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    I do like the recycler. Putting excess stuff like the 74th pistol into the blueprint-machine requires you to produce something. Mostly i dismantle this to get the components back. :-/
    Sorry - it is. In your personal inventory you find the waste box together with a drop box. To use it, you have to take the item at first, of course.
    But i do like the recycler. Putting excess stuff like the 74th pistol into the blueprint-machine requires you to produce something. Mostly i dismantle this to get the components back. :-/
    The recycler would be not only more versatile, but it would fit much better into the setting. Those blueprints in survival mode feel somewhat artificial to me.
     
    #47
  8. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    What I've done in the past to limit excess O2 is simply to leave at least one Hydrogen bottle in a slot, taking all O2. Eventually I'd end up with only ONE slot the machine can put O2 into, the others being "locked" to Hydrogen due to the single bottle left behind at some point.

    Note: We had a large discussion on implementing some sort of recycler a while back...the general consensus was that it'd make a good addition to the game. For me, it was getting back some magnesium from all those darn .50 Cal bullets dropped by drones...

    Scoob.
     
    #48
  9. Kronoss

    Kronoss Captain

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    Plan to balance the Hydrogen generators.

    1. Double the Hydrogen output. It isn't call dihydrogen monoxide for nothing. Slow the production time a little bit to compensate for this.

    2. Make stacks for Oxygen 500.

    3. Later add items that use up oxygen faster. Shield bubble/airlock. This will also need a tier 3 Oxygen tank like the tier 3 fuel tank. These items will consume oxygen at a rate that will make the higher output and stacks useful.
     
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  10. simplicity

    simplicity Ensign

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    Well I think I going to start a new game now 5.0 is out, and this time I am going to have an underground bunker just holding all the excess O2, that way if they ever bring in pressurized bases/ships etc I will have a nice supply on hand ready and waiting :)
     
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  11. Van

    Van Commander

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    I'm a big fan of the fusion cells! I agree with those commenting on having excesses of O2 as a byproduct of increased need for H2. I'd like to see the ability to set the generator to vent O2 & only produce H2. I'd also like to see more uses for O2. Consuming it for pressurization, liquefying it for propulsion aid, etc...
     
    #51
  12. fractalman

    fractalman Lieutenant

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    Less time wasted, increased effective internal storage.
     
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  13. Browar

    Browar Lieutenant

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    Going back to main question - I like the Idea of fusion fuel but...

    Let's say that I have 100 promethium to produce fuel:
    - I can turn it into 200 Fuel Pack or 40 Large Fuel Pack which gives me total 6000 fuel value
    - I can put those fuel packs into H2/O2 generator and receive 1258 hydrogen bottles then 2516 Hydrogen Fuel Pack - 25160 fuel value.
    - I can also use promethium to produce 170 hydrogen bottles and 850 promethium pellets and then 34 Fusion Fuel Packs - 10200 fuel value.
    - If I use those 34 Fusion Fuel Packs to power up H2/O2 generator I should get 2138 hydrogen bottles -> 4277 Hydrogen Fuel -> 42770 fuel value

    If we use Fuel Packs as base - Fusion Fuel is 173% more efficient, Hydrogen Fuel is 419% more efficient and hydrogen fuel made from Fusion Fuel is 724% more effective.

    Hydrogen is still the most efficient way of powering your vehicles/bases.
    Implementing Fusion Fuel was a good idea but I think it needs changes. I will use fusion fuel to power up AMiDs and I will stick to hydrogen fuel to power up generators.



    * I loaded H2/O2 gen with 14 Fuel Packs and received 88 H2 Bottles that gives 12.58 hydrogen bottle from 1 promethium
    ** I didn't took into acount fuel loss required for powering large/adv. constructor.
     
    #53
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  14. Moonsugar

    Moonsugar Captain

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    Thats a fine calculation you are doing there. I somehow felt the trend would be in this direction, but i was too lazy yet to do the math.
    So you run on promethium cells at the beginning, when you have to, then switching to hydrogen cells, because its more efficient (assuming you cannot have too much energy), and in late game you have the choice: high energy density with fusion cells lets you spare room in ships and cut on refuelling frequency, or high energy efficiency with hydrogen cells when room is not constricted or the energy demands are comparable low.
    I do like it, if a game makes you deciding between alternatives: both not bad, but one better than the other, depending on the case.
     
    #54
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  15. oojimaflip

    oojimaflip Captain

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    what? you mean we get equal volumes of H2 and O2 from generators? From Water? H2+O2 !=H2O wtf!? What manner of witchcraft and devilry is this?
    *sigh*
    Just another checked box on the list of "why I don't play survival"
     
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  16. vicomt

    vicomt Captain

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    Yeah, it *IS* a bit wacky, should be easily tweakable thought, but it depends on what Eleon want at the end of the day ;)
     
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  17. Van

    Van Commander

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    The option to vent oxygen & only collect hydrogen would be perfect. Just a check box added to the generator. :D Though maybe we'll have some use for the excess oxygen at some point!
     
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  18. vicomt

    vicomt Captain

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    Agreed, but it is slightly wasteful, in a perfect world I'd like to see all resources used in some way, shape, or form ;)
     
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  19. nexus_absolute

    nexus_absolute Captain

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    I'd also prefer to use a resource as opposed to dumping it. I recycle almost everything, even my spare pistol ammo goes into the factory.

    We have an O2 generator so why not just make the H2 O2 generator a H2 generator and be done with it.

    But as already suggested, if we can extract nitrogen (from the air, from nitrates, etc) then we can combine with excess O2 as jetpack fuel, SV booster fuel, Nitroglycerin, etc
     
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  20. Dinkelsen

    Dinkelsen Captain

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    That is true but efficiency isn't everything. Sometimes its more important that a device is powered for a long time.
     
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