6.0E Feedback: STORY TUTORIAL

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by Hummel-o-War, May 18, 2017.

  1. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
    Staff Member Community Manager

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    NOTE: This is NOT a thread about the implications of the NEW GAME START, this thread is only about how good, bad, helpful or not the STORY TUTORIAL is!

    - You need to start a NEW GAME with Release Candidate 2 to review the new tutorial (some more tasks and other changes)
    - Tutorial should be played on EASY mode with FAST PROGRESSION
    - Tutorial is only available for AKUA-Survival Start

    a. Please have a close look if the instructions of IDA and the tasks on the right side are understandable from the view of a total noob
    b. If you play the Tutorial without cheats or helpers, please add to your comment which level you unlocked when completing the tutorial.

    Thanks a lot in advance!

    PS:
    We will not change the New Game Start because the Tutorial does not work, so if you want to discuss the New Game Start, please use THIS THREAD: 6.0E Feedback: NEW GAME START
     
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    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  2. Ranger

    Ranger Rear Admiral

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    Well, I have to admit, I did not play through the whole thing, as I'm on my lunch break, but I promise I will later, to get you the full deal feedback you're looking for, but here is my 1st impression.

    Its WAY to much hand holding. I mean, do we REALLY need to go find and mine all 6 ores to learn how to find and mine ore? The correct answer is NO.
    Neither do we need to process all types of ore to learn how to do it. And neither do we need to be told to "use the fridge". Wow, I felt like my intelligence was insulted. Just add a line at the end of cooking telling the player food spoils quickly if its not refrigerated. I think it's good that youve added hunting and cooking back in, as some new players may not realize, and may not know that the constructor can make food. But the hunting down and processing every single type of ore is just way to much for a the requirements that a tutorial needs to fulfill. Also, by SHOWING the player where all those ore nodes are, you are removing very important early game exploration and suspense.

    One last thing: I really believe you could add a bit to the survival experience by not giving the large O2 gen in the tutorial. Just give the player the emergency one, it will serve the pupose of teaching them how to interact with and fuel the portables and if you really want us driving to a lake for the first field trip, add a bit in there about finding seaweed to make fuel for the drill.
     
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    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  3. Evolvei

    Evolvei Lieutenant

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    I think a better answer would come from having a few players that never played Empyrion go through the tutorial.

    Seems too detailed to me. I do not remember having much trouble figuring out what to do when I first started playing. The keys to use still need code for key binds that are different than default.

    In the beginning being able to make ammo and energy cells is much more important than going to cobalt, copper, silicone ore areas. The rocks are good enough to start for those.
     
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    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  4. thecoolshark

    thecoolshark Ensign

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    First of all, can you add a way to veiw the log from the robinson protocaul after it dissapears, and also how the heck did a bunker get convenently placed right where you are crashing with full functonality aside from fuel?!?
     
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  5. Gromit

    Gromit Commander

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    Text on left is huge and it vanishes way too fast. New players need some time to soak in info and look around. You don't need this text so damn big but you seriously need it to stick around. Strange translations, typos and the information vanishing so quickly, makes these tutorials quite painful to follow. As the info goes off so fast, new players are forced to quickly skim the information and may misread information.

    There is also too much information in some cases.

    These are my findings with it, done on Easy as requested.

    Refuelling the Base - Pressing Y on the base prior to refuelling, behaves as though you have refuelled the base when you haven't. Total confusion for anyone who does this.

    Improve Mobility
    Order Bike - Reword this, new players won't have a clue what this means.

    Guys, seriously why is this constructor still off by default?! It makes no sense why this is even a thing. New players are already trying to work out what "Order Bike" means, without this being thrown into the mix as well.

    Do the Ground Work
    Activate O2 Gen - Seeing as we've just had to activate the Constructor with an on/off switch, seeing this appear again and mean something different is pretty bad. There is no "On" button here, we have to drag power cells across like the fuel tanks. Again... Another reason to lose this having to turn on the survival constructor.

    Break Stones - Did it say, change to stone removal with left click? I could be wrong, but the info was gone so fast I can't remember. That's a problem. You're not giving new players anywhere near enough time to soak in the information. No mention of the tools requiring a reload before use in the text either.

    Mine from...

    Currently, the game recognises you have the wrong setting if you're trying to remove stones with resource gathering set. It doesn't work the opposite way around. This section doesn't give a shit where you get the ore from. You can get it from rocks or even boxes.

    This one is very long winded though and we don't really do anything with them all either. We just make power cells. I think if you're going to go down this route you'd be better splitting it up and giving the player a reason to mine each one. Why are we mining cobalt for instance? I'd also drop the way points here and Lets give new players some freedom.

    You also brush past mining from rocks very quickly.

    While Prooving your driving eadible skills - This isn't me being a Grammar Nazi here... First impressions are important. Get Grammarly installed and fix these. Honestly? It just looks bad.

    Also, have you considered now with the new mining part being so much longer, that new players might have already had to eat something already?

    Talon's are classed as animals but do not drop meat. Also please fix the damn faction setup that lumps all the neutrals together.

    Whilst I was refuelling the base as instructed the info vanished for registry and control panel. Guaranteed if you test this with people who've never played this before, they're going to really struggle at this part.
     
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  6. Evolvei

    Evolvei Lieutenant

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    Chat key will bring tutorial back up or F1 has all the info.
     
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  7. Ranger

    Ranger Rear Admiral

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    As promised, here is a review after going through ALL the steps it asked for/prompted. I will say, to begin, it was a cruel bitch with telling me which ore nodes to go to, as I found several different kinds that were much closer while I traveled to others, so I only traveled to 2 of the 5 that it suggested. I ended up level 5, with 3% towards 6 but that was due mainly to coming to close to some drones in my traveling, and then choosing a raptor as my hunting target, which meant I killed 5 instead of one.

    So, my initial impression stands tall. To much driving and mining for the purposes of learning. WAY to much.
    Also, the second most important ore for early game survival, magnesium, for ammo, it never told me about or sent me to find.
    Just reduce the mining to iron and explain the importance of magnesium and promethium, but do not reveal the location of any nodes other than iron. It ruins a huge part of the suspense and uncertainty of early game.
    The part about building a ramp for mining: its contradictory to having the player start mining in the center of the node, and would be extremely confusing to a new player. They are gonna think you mean literally go build ramps.... You cant build effective ramps and still mine the node efficiently if you start in the middle. This would be a far better place in the tutorial to introduce the player to their drone, and what it can do for them.

    The drone. seriously, WHY isnt that in the tutorial? I played this game for months before I realized I could use it to build. WE were in version 4 point something before somebody I was playing with told me I could use it to salvage with! Imagine my surprise when I connected the dots and found out I never had to be trapped at the bottom of a mine ever, again! Maybe I'm just really dense, and dont think outside the box sometimes, but you NEED to introduce new players to that drone and its uses. Do so by way of it being one of the broken functions that has been repaired, JUST IN THE NICK OF TIME!

    Lunch, and hunting/cooking need to come before the mining expedition. Seriously. I was into day two when i got back from mining, and I sure could have used that magical free assault rifle for that trip. And food. And if I was new, I would have liked a warning that some animals may not take kindly to being shot at and will bite back. In a group.

    Again, get rid of the check mark for putting food into the fridge. Fer god sakes. This isnt preschool. Just the simple statement telling us the fridge stops perishing. Thats it.
    I'm also sticking with my previous comment about O2 gens. Give us the emergency one. Make this FEEL like survival! Send us to the lake with an explanation about seaweed/fuel for the drill/chainsaw.

    At the end, it said something about making the base "home", and promised to bring me back there... with zero explanation that I needed to build and place a clone chamber for that to all work. First off, ya gotta word it differently so it doesnt sound like a promise of resurrection. Thats incredibly immersion breaking. @Starwing6 has a series of short story/journal entries that is fantastic to read, and she did a wonderful job of offering an explanation for a clone chamber. Im not going to copy/paste it here... go find it, read it. Thank her for it.

    For the most part, well done. I think most of the instructions are clear and understandable, with the above noted exceptions, and some spelling/grammatical/translation errors that I'm happy to edit for y'all if you'd respond and let me know what direction you want to go. Not gonna waste my time if it can't or won't be put to use.

    OK, some further thoughts.

    IF we are heading towards the tutorial becoming something like a scenario, that the player can select and play once or twice, all on its own, and then never have it be a part of another game...

    In that case, I'm in favor of leaving all the mining in, and the location of the nodes, and I'm ok with it sending us to far flung ones when others are closer. In fact, I'd suggest adding magnesium to it. Also, adding a section that explains to new players how to find out what something needs for components to build, and an explanation of getting those things made, THEN crafting the finished product. Maybe thats coming in chapters that are not done yet?

    Lastly, although I know this isnt the bug reports thread, I noticed a couple things. The ore nodes are still NOT responding to game start selections. I got only 2 of each no matter what I selected for how many I wanted, and they were all smallish. Not as small as they could be, but they were all in the 1800 to 2600 range, no matter what I selected. Also, the animals, particularly the raptors, STILL glitched through my camera, even in 1st person. so that I am literally INSIDE them, and cant hurt them. And, the player avatar STILL does not respect gravity when the ground or objects under them vanish. I only mention this here, because it would be extremely frustrating for new players, having the drill reach its range limit, and cant drill any further because you arent dropping down to follow the change in the terrain that you USED to be standing on.
     
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  8. Castiel

    Castiel Ensign

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    I finished the tutorial.
    The noise of the bike is a bit annoying as much as the control.
    I really liked the improvements of hud. Threading the drill in the first person may give you a little headache, You really need to stick the face to the wall to get some ore, It was a thing that already bothered me, and I was rushing desperately to get the upgrade of that tool. In the third person drill, the character looks kind of strange to look at.
    Until now, everything is very easy, for those who play more than 400 hours xD 20170519005854_1.jpg
     
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  9. Exacute

    Exacute Captain

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    From reading the above feedback, and doing parts of the tutorial myself, I felt a little inspiration.
    I think it is good. Explaining. Slightly weird wordings that will be confusing to new players. Also the action descriptions could use some love.
    Perhabs having it beeing seperated from a game, as in a scenario, would be a good way to go.
    Have it have some sort of introduction to the whole lore concept, so there's a reason to play it.
    Even with the lore being quite vague, give a basic introduction to it, and use it to drive the tasks. If there's a reason to do a task, it will stick with the player.
    Make it a cute little story or something.
     
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  10. Starwing6

    Starwing6 Captain

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    Thank you so much, @Ranger :D I'm really glad you enjoyed that explanation in my story. I get really immersed in the game, so I like to imagine how it all works in the Empyrion world. I'm about to explain why the clone chamber cannot repair suits anymore... it took awhile for me to work out durability before I could continue the story. LOL
     
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  11. Tabula rasa

    Tabula rasa Lieutenant

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    Just finished the tutorial. Of course it should be easy, to experienced players.

    However, I was trying to behave like the first time starting the game, and tried to do some stupid things such as dropping all the fuel packs to power the base, placing survival constructor right near the hideout, etc., and it seems there are certain points we can improve the tutorial.

    1. Hints on new discovered fauna and flora, and warnings if the player is heading towards some hostile POIs. I still remember my first time playing Empyrion: I was trying to hide from everything, since even alien honey and textured plants looked scary to me at that moment. It might still be good if we have to figure out everything by ourselves -- but then we don't need the tutorial.
    And I hope there are warnings if the player is trying to do something dangerous during the tutorial: don't think they can tell which POI is dangerous to go. It might also be good if the tutorial will warn the player if he/she sees a spider, or other hostile mobs.

    2. Thinking the tutorial should guide new players to build an advanced constructor, and give them knowledge about the utilities to build a base.

    3. I don't think new players will try to change the brightness during their first gameplay, and it is not easy for them to keep doing the tutorial after sunset (the mining part is somewhat time-consuming). At least show them to turn on shoulder lights, and probably guide them home when it is going to get dark, or just skip the first night if the player decides to do the tutorial.
     
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  12. Parakiet

    Parakiet Commander

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    1) it is a step in the right direction. But split a bit more so there is less text
    2) the tut takes long to complete. Longer than the text implies.
    3) start with hunting/foraging before mining!
    4) start with the basics: shelter, food, bandages and ammo
    5) perhaps script some stuff in the beginning: a weakened or hurt alien/raptor attacks and you shoot it. Loot it. Heal yourself. Cook a salami.
     
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  13. Turmith

    Turmith Lieutenant

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    Just completed the Robinson Protocol.
    Couple of notes.

    It's hard to read the White Text during the day when the ground/sky texture is very light.
    I recommend you place a transparent grey background to set the text off so we can read it.

    For some reason I got totally confused about the O2 Generator.
    When I read the story line text I was expecting the O2 Generator to be already placed on the shore
    and i was sent there to find it. Once I noticed the task objectives then things began clearer.

    Also why are we hoping on a motorbike to go a couple of meters to the water.
    Better of reordering that until right before you send us off to go find ores.

    Also, i managed to poison myself after killing the creature. Perhaps a warning about not eating meat raw?( i shift clicked by mistake but i can see this happening and it'll totally ruin a new players day if they don't know what to do.)
     
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  14. Turmith

    Turmith Lieutenant

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    Thoughts post Story Line.

    The hide out is not large enough to place large constructor which makes it very difficult to continue.

    If your an experience player it makes sense you can slag the whole thing for scrap.
    But this is not something a new player would recognize.

    You should include a section on the Multi-Tool so players know it exists.
     
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  15. Ranger

    Ranger Rear Admiral

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    I agree with a couple things youve said here, but the motorbike for going to the lake thing: The palcement of the poi and terrain generation is random. You often will not find yourself near a lake, much less on the shore of one.

    Its not intended to be a permanent home. Its designed intentionally to encourage players to move on, and go build their own base once they're ready to do so. (This is my personal belief, based on experience with almost all the different starter poi's.) And, in fact, on GOOD servers, the admins will have put admin cores in the starter poi's, so they cannot be claimed or built upon by any player, so every player can get the thigns they need from them.
     
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  16. Starwing6

    Starwing6 Captain

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    I like having the Admin Core in the Starter Bases in single player too--it feels more realistic that you don't get a ready-made base handed to you, and it's just a safe place to escape weather and radiation hazards in the early days of your adventure.

    Regarding the Tutorial and Starter Bases: I'd love to be able to add the bit that points players to the location of the shelter in Multiplayer as well. I don't want to have the entire tutorial on the server, just showing the waypoint for the hideout--is that possible?
     
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  17. Ranger

    Ranger Rear Admiral

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    Yes ma'am, it is. What the tutorial amounts to depends on the server, and planet. Akua is the only planet that gives you more than a waypoint by default. But if an admin hasn't taken the trouble to admin core them, and some player claims it, you won't even get that much. I've hopped on a lot of different servers to test and on a great many, the tutorial never starts, and the only way to begin a playthrough there is with console destroyme. IF Eleon doesn't take it upon themselves to make this new start playable for all experiences, out of the box, it's going to destroy the first experience for a huge number of new players.
     
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  18. Starwing6

    Starwing6 Captain

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    I read that the next RC will address the MP issues with the new start, which is great for server admins who maybe don't know how to set things better for the players.

    I've only been testing the tutorial on Akua, and I forgot that it doesn't come up on the other starting planets. :oops:
     
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  19. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    For mp you just need to use "multiplayer default" as a start scenario in your dedicated.yaml. This is mp pretty much as it was before 6.0
     
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