A10.6 Experimental Feedback - CPU

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by Hummel-o-War, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. zztong

    zztong Rear Admiral

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    I also agree, though if enough of the CPU values were exposed in configuration files, I think it could be made into something. I assume it is possible to make some blocks cost zero CPU in the configuration files and to control the CPU capacities of the various tiers. I've not looked at the configuration files to see.

    I do feel I understand how it works. I don't feel I understand how its implementation either (1) helps with specialization or (2) has anything to do with representing computing.

    I also see a marked difference between a multi-player game and a single player game. I completely understand how a multi-player PVP game might want Destroyers, Battleships, Transports, etc. I don't necessarily see how a single player game could lead to having a fleet of ships, unless those ships are going to be entirely AI driven and follow me around.
     
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  2. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    The former is possible, but the latter is explicitly not. The devs have indicated that the tiers are fixed, with no way to modify them.
     
    #382
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  3. zztong

    zztong Rear Admiral

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    That and I cannot control if they cost CPU if they're powered, or not.
     
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  4. zztong

    zztong Rear Admiral

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    But, fix the CPU-Power issue and let me control the Tiers, and I think CPU could be made into something.
     
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  5. sillyrobot

    sillyrobot Captain

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    One thing I meant to try before hanging up on EXP was if I could set a block type to negative CPU. I don't think the hit point contribution can be adjusted, but if the combat steel block could be set to -40 CPU and the game handles the negative number correctly, it might be possible though very annoyingly involved to set all the construction blocks to balance to zero CPU consumption.
     
    #385
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  6. Liang

    Liang Commander

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    I realize there is next to no chance of this and the angry mob is going to tear it apart because they want the game their way and who cares about those not like them but...

    Is there ANY chance we can get a Tear 5 that can be turned OFF in options that gives 10x the CPU points of Tear 4 that will thus, allow those of us that HATE CPU because it punishes creativity, to still be able to play with CPU turned on? This will also basically end the CPU debate because those against it will no longer have a reason to worry about wanting to actually be able to create as we please...
     
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  7. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    I guess I don't see how this would be much different than turning off the mechanic. Where precisely the max CPU limit is set for a structure is the least of the problems with the current implementation of the CPU system. And I'll point out that asking for an effectively unlimited T5 essentially means that you agree with the overall architecture of the CPU system, which, if I've interpreted your previous posts correctly, I don't believe you do.
     
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  8. Liang

    Liang Commander

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    See, proposed fix that will serve just about everyone with an issue with CPU gets dismissed outright...

    Right now this horrible idea has split players. The WHY its being put into the game does not matter to enough people that this is an issue that needs to be addressed, not dismissed. Being able to "turn it off" is not a fix. Adjusting the numbers per tear is not a fix many have said is acceptable. Are you proposing a fix for those that do not like it? If not, stop dismissing those that are trying and ask for more information if you do not understand HOW that person thinks it fixes the problem. And there IS a problem.
     
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  9. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    Because it doesn't actually solve anything; it's effectively the same as simply telling players they can turn the system off if they don't like it.

    Yeah, there's a problem, and no amount of juggling numbers around or adding extra tiers will fix it (up to the limit of 1 tier per extender, I suppose). My solution has always been to remove the tiers and let each extender add some amount of CPU directly (i.e. make the system actually modular). That would fix the architectural problems with the current implementation (and the remaining problems could then be fixed with appropriate CPU consumption values).
     
    #389
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  10. krazzykid2006

    krazzykid2006 Rear Admiral

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    I agree with you.
    Removing the tiers and making the system fully modular (as it should have been from the start) is the only way to really solve the issue of a T4 vessel suddenly being unable to move after losing a single extender.
    Sure, they could add in 20 more tiers (exaggeration) and make the gap between tiers less, but that doesn't really solve things. It would only add more crap on top of a bad system to begin with.

    CPU is a bad system in the way it's implemented, for many reasons. The new flight mechanics are a bad system in the way they are implemented.
    A11 was nothing more than them trying to rush ANY kind of new mechanics/system out the door, no matter how bad it worked (or didn't work).

    This isn't something they can just resolve with adjusting a few CPU numbers. The entire system is faulted at it's very core.

    I wanted a CPU system 2 years ago when we were talking about it with some very good ideas on how to make it work. I wanted new flight mechanics to give us proper moment of inertia, etc.
    What was implemented was none of that.
     
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  11. Liang

    Liang Commander

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    How if the next Tear is optional for those that want to force small designs being able to have it off (Keeping this idiotic idea intact) and leaving it on for those that do not like the idea of punishing building in a survival game based around building, but can still play the actual base game that will have building limits in early game...oh snap...

    CPU for those that want it AND for those that dont with both being able to USE it to enhance early game instead of disabling it outright making Eleons work implementing it WASTED on them by just shutting it off...

    I get that, I would prefer NO CPU limit at all because the entire design is actually moronic and serves no purpose that was presented to us, but this thread is about feedback on the system that is in place...and THIS SYSTEM that is in place has a nice chunk of the player-base hating the LIMIT thus my suggestion actually DOES FIX IT without breaking the unknown, confused clusterf*** reasons we were given for them putting it in in the first place.
     
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  12. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    I would prefer the developers to spend their time on proper global fixes and balance than having them waste time working on each individual's particular vision of the system, unless by some miracle that individual comes up with "the perfect solution".

    Is your proposal "the perfect solution" here ? If not, then you can expect other players to point out that your vote is only 1 like everyone else's. And no need to get all cranky again.
     
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  13. zztong

    zztong Rear Admiral

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    If there are to be tiers, then being able to configure those tiers, including the number of tiers, would be reasonable.

    My preference would still be a different system, but within the current system it seems clear a Custom Scenario might want the room to do something clever. I might even enjoy the struggle from a tier more constrained than the current tier 1.
     
    #393
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  14. Liang

    Liang Commander

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    Ahh yes, keep a broken system that many hate the same because, time should be spent on "perfection". All from a person not suggesting any kind of fix at all nor explaining how a suggestion doesnt work. Once again, the community does exactly what I said it will do.

     
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  15. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    That is absolutely not what I wrote.

    That person is you, since that's not what I wrote.

    I can make the same kind of "prophecy" : "Some players will complain, some will not. You'll see !"

    Now, do you feel I'm smarter than you ?
     
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  16. Liang

    Liang Commander

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    You clearly state that you want developers to spend time on "proper global fixes" than wasting time on "each individual's vision" unless its a "perfect solution". Then asked if what I said was perfect with a ?

    That is stating that my solution is not perfect, and you dont want them working on it.


    Approaching 1200 replies, how many are from people that do not like CPU with many reasons falling under the category of its limitations?
    https://empyriononline.com/threads/alpha-11-cpu-points-and-tiers-how-does-it-work.90876/

    394 replies, how many of them are from people that do not like CPU with many reasons why mostly falling under the category of the fact it is limiting designs?
    https://empyriononline.com/threads/a10-6-experimental-feedback-cpu.90920/

    Thread about CPU needing to be increased.
    https://empyriononline.com/threads/base-cpu-numbers-needed-to-go-up-not-down.91147/

    Another one.
    https://empyriononline.com/threads/...teresting-instead-of-limiting-like-now.90956/

    Thread about CPU and if its possible to sell it via its purpose with, again, people talking about its limits.
    https://empyriononline.com/threads/...urpose-and-direction.91562/page-2#post-378947

    You, can pretend its just me to dismiss outright...but it doesnt change reality. You have not, in ANY way explained how what I said will not serve as a fix for those people. You have done nothing to further the topic, you have done nothing to present a fix for these players. You have done nothing to show that what I said, will break it for others to show that my idea will make things worse, not better.
     
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  17. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Exactly. That is not "Ahh yes, keep a broken system..." if they spend time on global fixes and balances, like they said they were going to do anyway. See the difference ?


    Number of threads and replies is not number of players. And even with a number, it doesn't show all opinions, nor validity of arguments pro and against.

    There's already a "fix" : disable the feature. You can't be seriously describing the whole CPU like "entire design is actually moronic" but still want to use it partly while you can simply disable the "entire moronic design". Do you think the developers are idiots ?
     
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  18. Liang

    Liang Commander

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    Is CPU a global system? Yes. Is it a thing dividing the community? Yes. That means it should be fixed.

    Yeah, we are done. You are not here to do anything but dismiss. Disabling a broken system is not a fix.
     
    #398
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  19. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    You forgot that part : you can't be seriously describing the whole CPU like "entire design is actually moronic" but still want to use it partly while you can simply disable the "entire moronic design".
     
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