A7.0 Experimental - FAQ & Feedback: Mining

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by Hummel-o-War, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    Changes:

    - SSOR instead of Voxel
    The planetary deposits are no large spheres or “blobs of ore” anymore, but are now split up into smaller chunks of “sub-surface ore rocks” (SSOR) that can be found inside the perimeter of a deposit. These SSOR work similar to the surface rocks, which break and drop ore when you drill them. The difference: The SSORs currently hold a single type ore and a larger amount of it. As a side note: With this new method, we could even have “mixed ore deposits” in a future iteration.

    - Ore Scanner
    As the new deposit parameters allow to have those rocks scattered in a certain area (dense or wide-spread), and while you will need to remove more dirt, you’ll get the first iteration of an ore scanner as a new gadget to help with the discovery process. This device, which you simply put in your toolbar, works like a “near field ore scanner”. When activated, it will visualize the position of the SSOR close to you, so you do not need to do a lot of guesswork where to drill. The discovery of an ore deposit itself, is still done the old way (This might change in the future as well)

    - Asteroid mining will not change
    - Handheld drill speeds were increased. Therefore the special "fast dirt remove" mode has been removed.
    - Autominers (AMiD) will deplete ore deposits. This can be configured for servers ( "depletion on/off" ) in the dedicated.yaml
    - Autominers (AMiD) calculate their efficiency based on the deposit content.
    _________________________________

    A. How does the Ore Scanner work?
    1. Equip any drill
    2. Add Ore Scanner to your toolbar
    > If you are close to a deposit, you will notice "glowing spheres" which will indicate the SSOR nearby.

    B. How do i mine the SSORs?
    > Just as before. Set your drill to MINING and go for it!

    C. How do Autominers calculate their efficiency?
    > Basically the AMiD checks the content of the deposit when it is placed and every time it takes on a new SSOR, so the calcuation is semi-live.
    > The maximum efficiency (100%) for all three AMiD tiers is currently set at a fixed maximum of about 9000 ore per deposit. So if your AMiD works on a 10.000 ore deposit, it will drop in effiency when it reaches 9000 and below. This might be subject to change in the future!

    D. Can i modify the SSOR deposit size and amount like before?

    > Yes, same as before (CountMINMAX, SizeMINMAX, etc).
    > You also do NOT need to rework your custom playfields!
    > There is a slight chance you need to restart a savegame-in-progress.

    Planned improvements
    - Ore Scanner works in vessels (HV)
    - CV and HV drill turrets will see a "auto-targeting & mining" tier version

    Known issues:
    - The ore boulders hover in the air when you clear the space beneath them; this will be addressed in the future
     
    #1
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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  2. vxsote

    vxsote Lieutenant

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    Can this be make to work if the scanner is simply in inventory, rather than the toolbar? Toolbar slots are at a premium and having one more thing that needs to be shuffled in and out is not something I look forward to. I.e., if the scanner is supposed to be a quality-of-life improvement, requiring it to occupy a toolbar slots works against the intended purpose.
     
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  3. SilvRav

    SilvRav Moderator
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    1. I would like to eventually see the deposits still being show on the map and to be discovered via an ore detector on a ship.
    2. I see the t1 handril auto collects resources now (except stone) - preferred the old method.
     
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  4. rainyday

    rainyday Rear Admiral

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    It works in inventory too, just like the nightvision goggles.
     
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  5. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    This should also work when it is in the inventory
     
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  6. Space Beagle

    Space Beagle Captain

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    New Ore scanner visually looks like 'addition' for tool/drill - so me thinks that in the future we will attach them to Drills & Tools... like scopes on rifles, and drill T2 model already have rail on top... maybe in the end we will have several types of ore scanners (when 'research tree' replace 'tech tree'), and who know what else :D
     
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  7. krazzykid2006

    krazzykid2006 Commander

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    Not so sure how I feel about the mining now.
    Ore scanners can't be crafted until mid-late game due to requiring cobalt. This has already resulted in me turning Akua to swiss cheese just looking for a small amount of resources. This is going to be HELL on servers.

    The ore scanner needs a lot more work IMO as well. It's impossible to determine the distance to the next ore blob, so I still end up with swiss cheese and tunnels everywhere. The blue blobs also make it nearly impossible to see the ground textures.

    Crushed stone is a drop from mineable rocks now. Please.....NO. The new mining system is already going to give us way too much stone. They are supposed to be a starter source of resources, but we have stone everywhere around us. We don't need it from them as well.
     
    #7
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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  8. GoldDragon

    GoldDragon Commander

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    Will the AMiD settings be changable for Singleplayer? If not, it seems like a deliberate slam for those who can't (or won't) play MP.
     
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  9. Mr. Bits

    Mr. Bits Commander

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    I'm testing SP with everything on Normal and SSOR is just garbage compared to previous. Now you blindly randomly dig dirt and rock until you hopefully see an object start sticking out of the dirt, you scoop it up, commense blindly digging dirt and rock hoping to hit another object sticking out somewhere.

    Wtf seriously? Why did you do this?

    Before it was crystal clear you were mining an ore deposit, it felt like you were mining a deposit, and for those that really enjoy terraforming, this was a big part of it.

    Now - that's completely gone. It's just digging dirt hoping to find some object sticking out of it somewhere, no feedback from the terrain because it's just dirt and rock... just keeping blindly digging for another piece of ore to stick out. Sorry, but this is just shit to me. Is there a setting we can use to revert SSOR and use deposits as previous?
     
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  10. Izzin

    Izzin Ensign

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    Thoughts on converting the "Scanner" to a module and adding an inventory for the drills to add modules for scanning? This would remove the inventory bloat of having to have yet another piece of gear in inventory.

    We have a precedent with the armor modules mechanic.

    Gives more options as well for other modules to effect the abilities of the drills.

    -Izz
     
    #10
  11. zztong

    zztong Captain

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    If you quit drilling and move around the area, sometimes the nodes show up, but then disappear when you get close to them. If you dig at those points they eventually show up. Its as if the nodes are showing when they shouldn't at certain ranges.

    I've not yet found/made an ore scanner. I don't know yet if it makes this report moot.

    Also, as I mine Promethium with a starter drill, the ore ends up in my inventory, but rocks are still dropping onto the ground and need to be picked up manually. Shouldn't the Promethium ore also be dropping on the ground?
     
    #11
  12. Qubz

    Qubz Ensign

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    Should my HV Drill pick up the nodes? My hand drills work fine, but when using my HV drill I get plenty of crushed stone but nothing from the nodes.
     
    #12
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  13. Luis

    Luis Lieutenant

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    Nope. Nope. Nope.

    I have always wanted something better than a round blob of ore in the ground, but I was expecting a randomly shaped deposit or a vein that you could follow and dig up. When you brainstorm to come up with new ways to improve mining you are supposed to implement the idea at the top of the list, not the one at the bottom. This idea is worse than the f***ing motorcycle, which I refuse to acknowledge is even in the game. :)

    Over 1200 hrs in this game and this is my first "Oh, hell no!"
     
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  14. MadRussian

    MadRussian Lieutenant

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    Must say I’m not a fan of these underground ore “rocks”. After spending considerable time in A7.0 mining with and without scanner… and trying to keep an open mind, it’s quite clear.

    The original mining system was so much more fun compared to this! With original mining, you get to deform your way through both regular terrain and ore terrain, try to find the seams, etc. Original mining did have one glaring issue, namely that all the ore for each deposit came in a giant blob (shaped like a sphere).

    There is one great idea from current A7.0 mining, which is spreading the ore out within a deposit.

    Why not keep the original mining system (ore as deformable terrain), and simply apply the whole “spread it out” idea? The result would be layers of ore terrain folded into layers of regular terrain. You’d have thin ore layers, and thick “mother lodes” of ore, and it would be quite a bit of fun trying to optimally get as much ore out as possible (before you hit a point of diminishing returns, leaving some remnant ore down there because it’s simply not worth it). The scanner idea could be applied here as well, simply highlighting the spots where ore terrain is concentrated.

    Edit:
    Luis beat me to the punch. We've got the same idea: Randomly shaped "ore terrain" deposits down there that you dig through like with pre-A7.0 mining. Just spread out a bit with regular ground in between. Ideally somewhat "layered" and with the layers semi-close together.
     
    #14
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
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  15. JuStX2

    JuStX2 Commander

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    I don't want to know "How to Mine" I wanna know: "Where the $%#@ did the ore go?" - give us back the simplicity in mining (to say nothing of realism) where if we have a radar ping there ore is there no matter what. Until that happens I'm better off surface mining those large stones I can actually SEE. Effectively Pissed me off again. Also if you intend on pulling this shit the way it is atleast give us faster rotting food; You have effectively cut off my supply of promethium.
     
    #15
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  16. IronCartographer

    IronCartographer Commander

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    Count me in for another vote to integrate the ore scanner item with the drills somehow, with a hotkey to toggle it like nightvision but without the item cluttering up the toolbar.

    As for the SSOR system as a whole: It's awkward, but not too bad (especially if you mine via drone), and likely enables the planned automated mining turrets for HV/CV which is going to be a very, very welcome addition.

    Auto-collecting ores with the t1 drill (while stone drops on the ground) is nice, and makes sense as well: Since mining a single underground rock can yield over a hundred ore, players might miss very valuable drops without knowing it when learning the game. It's important to consider not only the experienced player, but also the beginner.
     
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  17. SilvRav

    SilvRav Moderator
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    Not sure how you see it being a mid to late game item? its available at level 5, and i had mine within 10mins from starting a new game.

    @everyone, also remember this is experimental. The developers are asking you for feedback...no need to get nasty about it. Raise your concerns in a valid and at least respectful way... At least these developers are giving you a change to alter the the way they develop the game.

    for all we know, autominers HV's wont work with the current system and they had to implement a fixed coordinate system for future patch proof... I can see lots of benefits to build on this but agree it needs some fine tuning.
     
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  18. Mr. Bits

    Mr. Bits Commander

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    @SilvRav Some of the near irate reactions, including mine, likely stems from the fact it appears they've -decided- that SSOR will replace deposits, period.

    If that's true it means they've -completely destroyed- a major feature for many players.

    Real mining - terraforming a deposit, where it's clear you're mining ore versus the terrain, adds enjoyment to an otherwise grindy necessity.

    Obliterating that as seen currently with SSOR removes the fun, leaving just the grind, and makes it much, much worse in many regards.

    So, with respect - please undo SSOR, make deposits randomly shaped and don't destroy the terraforming aspect of mining, or make SSOR optional so we can disable it in favor of deposits.
     
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  19. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    1st: Please check the full text above and also the "Planned Improvements" Section ;-)
    2nd: The ore scanner is there for a reason and it is available early on. AND you can always mine the "surface rocks" for ore! So if you wonder WHERE all the SSOR are underground, you might need to level up and get you a scanner. That's intentional
    3nd: The SSOR system is here to stay - the question is: what are the improvements we can make in its handling?

    :)
     
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  20. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    tbh you are currently doing pretty much the same as before: you drill away terrain (Be it dirt in 7.0 or voxel-ore in 6.x) and get ore.

    Given you use the Ore Scanner you will be even faster, because the ore is concentrated in certain locations - and the scanner gives you a direction. So you drill away LESS terrain but gain the same amount of ore.

    Before, you needed to drill away a full sphere/radius of the deposit to get the same amount ore...and tbh i have NEVER read a posting that this is FUN...:D..Now you just drill towards the next SSOR = in total you are drilling a lot LESS in terms of volume.

    So if drilling a full volume of a deposit is "more fun" than getting the SSOR faster with less effort, i don't get it :D

    Maybe i overlook something?
     
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