A7.0 Experimental - FAQ & Feedback: Resource Balancing

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by EleonGameStudios, Sep 30, 2017.

  1. Gwyll

    Gwyll Ensign

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    I tried a couple of Omicron starts, each time, no promethium near me, which was a problem, since you depend far more on energy there than on Akua. And the one I found in the most recent game (latest build) had a drone guarding it, I barely had enough bullets to take care of it, since I have been exploring other places.
     
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  2. JuStX2

    JuStX2 Captain

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    Strange Diversity of Settings; Although I'm one to speak; I use easier than easy for most games (totally turn off Drones Attack Base - beyond that easy except for temp and degrade which are "Normal")

    Also I guess it vaguely counts as a resource distrobution issue: I find myself raising the NPC Spawn on most of my games since 7.0 to Normal because of the /very/ low creature spawns; I haven't played 7.1 (yet - waiting on the download) but if it's the same deal we may need to discuss a setting for splitting up Prey and Predator types in difficulty settings; since Reducing the NPC Spawn rate not only reduces predators but also prey :/

    edit: As of 7.1 the Spawn Rates went from too Low on Low - to waaay too high on low. On Landing I was greeted by no less than 15 mules, and 6 raptors who tried to subsequently kill me for aggro from my pistol; That was in the immediate landing area. Although I lived I did take some severe wounds; however further exploring the new build I discovered that the new Ore Detector in Inventory is a godsend and yet at the same time a curse - yes it helps you tell which way to dig - the problem is it still lacks any sort of depth perception and thus you could be MILES from where your drilling at - while this is not necessarily a bad thing it does reinforce the idea that we should be gathering surface stones instead of mining in the beginning.

    As For the report of your questions Hummel:

    Did I take apart a POI? Not really - I removed some decorative blocks from the Starter Shelter (consoles etc - non-essential parts) with deconstruct only to be rewarded with jack squat - think we could atleast temporarily get 100% returns for stuff we actually have our own core in?

    What Ores Were Plentiful:

    After mining for a little less than 3 "clips" of biofuel I had enough ore to construct a small SV; possibly even get started on a CV if I had the appropriate tech - sadly I was level 4 when night set because I was trying to conserve ammo (and life :p). In all I had managed to mine alittle under 300 iron, 100 copper and 200 Silicon (ores).

    Was the resource costs pleasing for the difficulty involved:

    Yes - I wish I had a way to skip the night such as sleeping but beside that I was quite pleased with the amount of work I was able to get done on Day 1 in-game. While it might not please everyone it is reflective of the difficulty settings I intentionally chose, which were: Plentiful Deposits, and Rich Resource Veins.

    What Ores did I consider I had "too much" of?

    I think I had enough ore for my purposes however refining it in the survival constructor was the joykill of the first night; especially since I pretty much resolved to stay in the Engine Compartment I had made into my temporary home.

    What Resources was I "constantly" lacking?

    Strictly Speaking it should be obvious from my prior answers: Time was the limiting factor; Ores were sufficent to get started /very/ quickly, and though it was too much for the setting the NPC Spawn rate was terrific (minus the 6 raptors ganging up on me)

    For reference purposes this was all on Akua.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  3. JimboG

    JimboG Ensign

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    I've started up a game on Akua, with custom settings based on normal but with increased resources(amount + size) and less drone base attacks.

    Even with these increased resources I find there just doesn't quite seem to be enough. I can get a lot out of a mine, but they run dry significantly quicker than in 6. There is also zero cobalt on my world, like absolutely none at all. The only cobalt I have so far is from raiding POIs, not sure if that's intentional or not. I also feel the ammunition change is good, but a little too costly on iron; maybe scale it back just a tad. In summary I'd say I have a serious lack of cobalt and iron is still plentiful but gets used more frequently now; copper and silicon seem fairly balanced. I do enjoy having many resources at my disposal, so I can spend more time crafting or exploring than having to scavenge through dozens of shallow mines. As for meteorites, I've barely touched them whatsoever - it's just easier to mine what's already in the ground.

    I never take apart POIs if you mean literally deconstruct, however I do tend to rely on them for rarer metals, weapon upgrade parts, and medical supplies in the early/mid game; I think they're fine the way they are.

    tl;dr -
    -Cobalt
    -Cobalt
    -Copper/Silicon
    -Yes like more, not less
    -Very rarely
    -Shoot n loot for days
     
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  4. Jᴧgᴧ

    Jᴧgᴧ Rear Admiral

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    Might want to give the official 7.0 Experimental release announcement a read, along with it's corresponding sub-threads. Stuff like Cobalt has been made a rare material now - all nodes moved off starter worlds.
     
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  5. downwood0

    downwood0 Commander

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    From my experience the detector has about a 30-40 meter maximum range. The blue 'halo' around the piece is thicker the closer you are to it. And, the halos block line of sight to each other in exactly the opposite order than they should. You'll come up on the one that's visually behind all the others first.
     
    #25
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  6. DuLux

    DuLux Captain

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    Blueprint asking for huge amounts of Zasc and Erest but next to no Cobalt!!

    [​IMG]

    Something is messed up here.
     
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  7. bosniachero

    bosniachero Ensign

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    It is OK to be made rare, but then do not require it for nearly all necessary items in game. That makes no sense.

    I had NOT a single nod of Cobalt on planer (Akua) but I was at a point that I had to have it to make just necessary items to survive (missile launchers) ! Other Items require it to! And if I do not have it and cant go to space to farm it, since I do not have a suit, and I cant go to get one by raiding a base (no missile launchers) what am I supposed to do ?
     
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  8. Jᴧgᴧ

    Jᴧgᴧ Rear Admiral

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    Break rocks.

    And it isn't required for all necessary items - most recipes were changed in 7.0. Read those announcement threads, they have a lot of info in them on changes.
     
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  9. wildboy

    wildboy Commander

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    Rocks will give you plenty of resource to start with.... incl. some cobalt and some rare stuff. you do not need that many anyway for the start.
    Zasc and Erest no need for it on starter... not sure what weapons you got on that blueprint. if it is a public one please share so we can see what the problem is.
     
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  10. amurayiwestgate

    amurayiwestgate Captain

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    I never harvested a single planetry rock boulder to get everything I needed.

    Cobalt: It's in the orbit and on the moon! Plenty of it!
     
    #30
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  11. rucky

    rucky Rear Admiral

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    oh yes, Z&E are skyrocking for my vessels too (424 each).
    bye bye Mark5 on early planets then...
     
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  12. DuLux

    DuLux Captain

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    It happens with other BPs too.

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1076732973

    Also with CV_Prefab_Tier5
    [​IMG]
     
    #32
  13. sillyrobot

    sillyrobot Captain

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    I started on Akua using the predefined Easy settings.

    Here are some answers to the OP and other observations:

    None. I only bothered mining each element once. Everything else I've gained from surface rocks, raiding, and deconstructing POI.

    Nothing found on Akua or in orbit is even modestly difficult to collect. I haven't traveled further afield yet, so I can't comment on late-game requirements.


    All of them. I don't bother using promethium as a power source; I have a modest sized farm for biofuel creation. Promethium is only used for ammo. Hardened steel blocks are my default building material since most POI are made from them. A fair amount of higher-level tech (repair bay, advanced constructor, med units, O2 dispensers) and all low tech (cargo boxes, elevators, plant lights grow boxes, etc.) have been scavenged. Constructors are used for what I need right now (and haven't found) and for personal equipment. Ships are created in the factory feeding it mostly scavenged blocks/devices which bypasses the poor multi-tool deconstruction return.

    It's OK. I think it is slightly too easy to get by without bothering to mine.

    Other than promethium, I don't believe I'll mine enough to trigger a meteor fall. I haven't found a way around the true consumables like ammo yet.

    Enough to satisfy my current and expected future resource needs. I don't bother stripping for the sake of stripping, but that's my first choice for resource collection.

    Some other observations that are only sort of related follow.

    The game is in a weird state for constructing vs. looting. Some things can only be looted (epic weapons, suit modules, heavier suits). Some things can never be looted AFAICT (T2 weapons, T2 tools). Some things are hard to make but simple to loot (advanced constructor, medical devices, O2 dispensers, repair bay). Some things are so common that constructing them simply doesn't make sense (cargo boxes, standard blocks, elevators, glass panes, railings, deco). POI -- especially non-hostile ones -- are very rich mines with very limited drawbacks.
     
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  14. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Rear Admiral

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    Once I started exploring Akua there were no resources that I lacked. The survival aspect of the opening game has become much more convincing because of the new model of resource distribution. If you play it safe by staying close to home it will take a lot longer to progress - and you will eat lots of Akua Berries. OTOH, if you're too bold you run the risk of dying from hostile NPCs, injury, or freezing to death.

    I tried a vanilla (Medium) start on Akua to see how the regular game played. Despite more than 2k game hours playing with all of the settings on max difficulty I was nearly killed when I put myself between two POI's and a cold place. That's downright refreshing!
     
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  15. wildboy

    wildboy Commander

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    Playing on the official exp sever. start Omicron resource from rocks good, to find all kind of the deposits you will need a bike for example Iron deposit was hard to find... some friendly poi's where already visit by other players..still found some stuff in one not that many, starting without a ore detector was ok just little harder to do (read bigger holes in ground) lots of fun, takes a little longer than before... depending also on oter players robbing the poi's empty :eek:. and be aware of the wildlife it can kill you fast...
     
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  16. wildboy

    wildboy Commander

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    Pretty heavy on erest and zas 1 drill is 36 of both ... thats 216 for all 6 drills and 36 from both for the drill turrets.

    the intention of the game is that you do travel more, so if both resource are available in that 15 au range great... but did start start on omicron an did not find any in the 15au range ...some from poi's but no deposit/meteor or astroids
     
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  17. zztong

    zztong Rear Admiral

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    I suggest you remove Cobalt Alloy from the Wooden and Concrete Growing Plots recipe.
    Instead, make Cobalt Alloy part of the Plant Grow Light recipe.

    My reasoning is this...

    It seems clear you're probably trying to delay/complicate the harvesting of food. But native people were able to domesticate plants long before they were refining Cobalt and making components. What they knew nothing about was how to provide indoor plants a full spectrum of light.

    By making this change, you are allowing primitive farming on a base on a planet with a suitable atmosphere. Or, basically, Akua players can grow food outdoors at low elevations (warmer temperature) before they go to space, while players on more challenging planets cannot.
     
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  18. zztong

    zztong Rear Admiral

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    It seems strange to me that you can mine with an HV and a CV, but not with an SV.

    I don't mind being in my space suit while mining an asteroid, but the tech available seems out of line.
     
    #38
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  19. Mr. Bits

    Mr. Bits Commander

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    I'm pretty sure they did this as part of their ongoing efforts to create a reason for their 3 types of craft to exist.

    As currently implemented - what each type can actually do and where they can do it, as of 6.7 - I would probably play the game, SP and MP, without ever creating an HV at all. And I would like that now more than ever, because the only thing I used an HV for was.... mining deposits. That's totally trashed (for me) and made into an extreme pain in the ballz trying to use an HV on SSOR versus HV on Deposits.

    We know the devs are taking advice and reading all this stuff to try and improve SSOR. If they want SSOR to be more palatable to more people the devs probably need to go actually use an HV on 20 or 30 SSOR.

    Maybe they'll realize:

    "oh, this really sucks now because I have to hit the object dead on line a sniper to collect it, and I'm in the ground inside an HV, and I can't move enough to actually do that, so now I need to go out and spend time just trying to make room for the HV so I can point at each and every single object I'd like to collect...."

    Maybe some of them will even go load up 6.7, mine a deposit with that same HV and think:

    "wow... this works awesome. What have we done!" ...

    But seriously - devs - please actually go use the equipment thoroughly so you can personally see the impact and help us help you by coming up with more, better recommendations we can try out. Since SSOR really is here to stay let's please make it not suck, or suck a lot less.
     
    #39
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  20. Methule

    Methule Lieutenant

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    So far the resources on Omnicron are pretty spot on for a harder starter planet. There was enough resources to get a starter HV then progress to a simple SV, but not too much that I felt I could build the best or be rich from it, so, spot on. Also, the change for ammo to take promethium was needed. Omnicron seems to be a good start for an average game. Akua is easy, and that's a good option, but I also would like a very hard start planet, with one major caveat... With the increase of mob density, mobs should have less health to balance the ammo cost and increased density, and then you would need to lower mob loot drops to offset the decreased health.

    Taking over a POI is required to advance at a decent rate on Omnicron, and that's good, but that advancement is still way too fast. I had to salvage a crashed CV in order to make my CV. But after having taken over that single POI, placing a core in it then dismantling the entire thing, I had enough to craft a decent CV, and armor it. Some people might say that's fine and spot on, but once you have a CV that's capable of all your needs, farming, medical, storage, defense against the basic nature of the planet, that's where survival progression ends, and only by the players choice do they continue to play and make bigger ships. This should not happen on the very first instance/planet of any progressive game.

    -----

    I'm going to digress into progression, so if all you wanted to know was how starting felt, that was covered above.

    --------

    CV's should be an end game goal, level 15+. SV's should fill that gap ranging from 7 - 15+, but in order to do that, SV's need to be more durable. If SV's are going to warp from planet to planet, they need to be safer, which would allow you to push back the need to craft a CV for some time. This would make traveling to other planets more appealing as you're not able to gather everything for your end game ship on the first planet.

    More tiered weapons. A starter planet should never have Epic weapons, this kills progression as there's nothing to look forward to by going to another planet. More tiered weapons, or slot-able weapons like how armor works, allows you to upgrade your weapons without having the best in game item on the starter planet. Possibly add in the ability to craft weapons out of higher graded ore to make a better weapon, this would spur the desire to go out and gather higher resources, directly causing a sense of progression.

    Status ailments need to be staggered in severity. All ailments in game should be reduced at the start and then more ailments, that are more fatal, can be introduced with harder mobs, on other planets. Getting food poisoning doesn't kill you in real life, it's an impairment, and it shouldn't kill you in game. Poisonous bite and open wound should persist for a set period of time, allowing you to possibly live through the duration. As you move to other planets with harder mobs, new ailments can be introduced as methods of countering these ailments are learned by the player. As it stands, ailments are too fatal for starting planets, and likewise when you do receive a CV with medical bay, they become completely nullified. Which brings us back full circle to the CV being end game, which you should not be able to attain on a starter planet.

    By spreading out end game objects to other planets and filling in the gaps, you'll create more progression and a need to go to those other planets. As it stands, on all starter planets, there is no need to do anything besides, get CV and win. Some may argue that in a sandbox game you shouldn't be forced to travel to another planet to make a CV, but you can't have progression without limitations, and just because it's a sandbox game, doesn't mean you deserve everything. The option to travel to another planet will always be there, or you can choose to sit on the starter planet, with a base, and traverse it in a HV. In a sandbox game, you're given the choice on the content you want to explore, but you are by no means entitled to be spoon fed all of the content without work.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017

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