Alpha 10.5: Optimizations, Bug Fixes and other Improvements

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by EleonGameStudios, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    Agreed. Something more on the KSP side of things rather than the NMS side of things would be nice. And the asteroids are definitely crazy-dense.
     
    #61
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  2. Fractalite

    Fractalite Rear Admiral

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    I dunno... remember this is a game. The first of the two images fits, the second doesn't seem quite right. @everyone discussing this; ya'll are coming across as more interested in being right or experts on things as opposed to either thinking about what you want or thinking about what might be nice to see in the game.

    Some of my favorite games have some neat backgrounds. Homeworld/homeworld cataclysm had some that were vibrant and energetic and then others that were more black but filled with stars.

    I would actually vote for the former for Empyrion and the later for some kind of simulator.

    Friendly sage advice; be careful of what you wish for because you just might get it.
     
    #62
  3. nexus_absolute

    nexus_absolute Captain

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    Aww man.... just... no words.... that is beautiful. I'm definitely sold on darker space.
    Though I still think nebula have more mystery, dark space is more majestic. Sol both have a place in the game.

    Also, whoever made this ship... :eek:
    I am currently watching SG:A from start to finish (again) and this is just... well it's just super to see.
     
    #63
  4. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    "This is a game" doesn't mean it has to be cheesy, but there is also another argument you just ignore here. You're a well known builder, yet your creations suffer from the actual over-saturated "emptiness of space". It doesn't feel empty at all.

    Here is another example : a simple encounter with a POI in space. First, untouched picture:

    encounter_color.png

    There are about 20 visible points of visual interest here, objectively. Why should a new player, for example, ignore all the big rocks floating around ? I found one somewhere else with a mining facility on it. But in the upper left there is the "main interest" of this picture (surely not my ugly CV but thanks anyway). I know most player's eyes will not focus on the POI any longer than necessary : it's almost "drowned" in the scene.

    Here is a different view :

    encounter-dark.jpg

    Now I don't know for you, but myself I find that POI much more intimidating here. Ominous. My eyes have nowhere else to look but the 3 objects, and I feel like this is space. When I saw the lasers starting to shoot everywhere, with the bright blue background, I couldn't help thinking it would be marvelous in a dark context like img #2. I stumbled on that thing almost by accident, wandering around for a long time... it almost went unnoticed among the too numerous rocks floating everywhere, the coarse red planet and the obvious moon, and the kaleidoscopic skies...

    Of course, it's a question of taste, but you can't say that we're only having "little taste" because "we think we're experts". I don't know if you studied any kind of visual arts/ techniques, but I did. Does that qualify me to say that what we have in game is too cartoony or not ?

    Another hiccup is when transitioning from planet to space during the night. It is stark darkness on the planet, we can't see the nose of our ship, and nothing around it. In a flash moment, we "pop" in space in a merrily bright blue dream...

    And man, even my monstrous ship looks good here... I think... I hope... well...

    Oh! I left one rock, because in the dark they are indeed interesting...
     
    #64
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  5. nexus_absolute

    nexus_absolute Captain

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    Why is this issue so polarizing? This does not have to be binary.

    Having a mix of dark space and nebula would make each stand out more, though this may be something we experience as we explore other solar systems rather than having a mix within the same system. I think it's weird how we currently get different nebula while exploring planets that are very close to each other. Also, when viewing planets from another playfield you can see the planet but not the cloud. Weird?

    Having a theme for each system would also make traversing them easier as it would give a visual que to where you are.

    Just my thoughts on the matter.
     
    #65
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  6. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Well even the nebulas could use a little desaturation.

    Edit : same case as the rocks in space : too many/ too much renders them almost insignificant. Bright, multicolored nebulas everywhere can suffer the same fate.
     
    #66
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  7. krazzykid2006

    krazzykid2006 Rear Admiral

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    Not at all. I got involved in the discussion because I agree that it would be much better with the darker space, in my opinion. For multiple reasons as well.
    1. Immersion. I don't really need to say more here. To me, it would feel more like I'm actually in space flying a ship with a darker space. What we have now is too cartoonish feeling.
    2. The over saturated color is extremely bright. It gives me headaches with prolonged exposure. Migraine level headaches. I have the same issues with other aspects of the game like various flare effects and extremely bright flashes from multitools and drills. I have spoken to about these issues multiple times in the past, but it seems it always falls on deaf ears. I know I'm not alone in this either.

    Number 2 is particularly important to me because we have to spend so much time in space randomly wandering around without any sense of direction or discovery. There is no good way to find anything in space without wandering around for unknown amounts of time, all the while seeing these extremely bright colors that are straining my eyes.

    No one is saying this is the only way it should be. I'm all for player options.
    I don't want hyper realistic space simulator, but a little more realistic in key areas would greatly enhance my gameplay (and health).
    Even just a general toning down of the saturation and colors would go a long way.
     
    #67
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  8. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Can I ask, is anyone else as bother as it as me that we cannot sort things within Groups in the Devices section of the Control Panel?

    I like that the list is sorted by the Group Name, but it really should be sorted by item name within group too.

    Sometimes I'll open the CP and see something like:

    Cargo Box
    01 - Ores
    02 - Components
    03 - HV/SV parts
    04 - BA/CV Parts
    05 - Tools
    06 - Ammo

    Usually nice and neat after I first set it up. However, that list will be different most times I expand the group. This can make finding things take a little longer than it should as I cannot memorise the position.

    I know this isn't a huge deal for most people more than likely, but it's be a huge quality of life thing for me, if items in groups were sorted. As you can see, I tend to number things for clarity, which is especially useful for Inventories.

    On the topic in hand. I think space looks quite pretty at the moment, but is often a little bright. Items popping in against a bright background are a little more jarring than when it happens on a darker one. That said, I'm not overly fussed about this particular aspect.

    Scoob.
     
    #68
  9. Fractalite

    Fractalite Rear Admiral

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    *sigh* That is what a camera sees or shows. If you really studied the visual arts you would know that.

    A random dude from the middle of no where demonstrates:



    Space would not be that black. What is more, a game is a lot like making a play, a movie, or a T.V. show. It is okay to include a little flourish. Do you think the Illiad or Odyssey would be all that compelling if half the time Homer was making sure to get the physics of sailing correct? :)

    Ultimately @nexus_absolute is right; some with just stars, some with nebula(once we get multiple solar systems) is the way to go.
     
    #69
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  10. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    *sigh* And you went to space, right ?

    In what school did you study where they teach that "cameras don't see stars" ? Being more specific, I would also say that cameras can see way more stars than we can. Some of them are used on satellites and probes, did you know that ?

    The only problem here is that you support (camera) filtered and enhanced images when it's used to portray nebulas, but not for starfields. Make up your mind !

    And avoid trying to discredit me instead of discussing the topic please.

    ... that you don't see the stars in my pictures while they are there? Just click to enlarge...

    What is funny here is that it's not a camera that's playing tricks on you : it's your eyes...

    Well I have good news for you: lots of games have dark space with only faint stars, and people like it. And since you've been in space, surely you can tell me how bright days are on Pluto...

    Do you think kitsch is a cocktail ?

    I would even add an option in the video settings of the game to let players choose if they want some effects or not, on planets and in space. Do we need fog everywhere ? It has performance costs. Do we want bright nebulas or plain starfields ? Because even with nebulas there are stars everywhere. While it's very hard to see "texture seams" in a plain starfield, colorful nebulas' gradients suffer from lower resolutions.

    Other arguments have been proposed. Desaturation. Less cheese. More immersion. That's all gamey to me.
     
    #70
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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  11. Fractalite

    Fractalite Rear Admiral

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    *chuckles* I know, I know. You gotta take it in, probably stings a little. For what its worth, I do not want to keep you on your heels. I have no beef with you Kass and have no interest in drawing out animosity. Similar to what I called for in this thread: https://empyriononline.com/threads/your-opinion-planetary-gravitational-fields.74476/ just because something kinda/sorta feels like it should be added does not necessarily mean that it should. In the case of the gravity being added to playfields it is a question of physics, in the case of backgrounds it would be a question of light exposure. Consider; starfield visibility would need to change based on what side of a planet, asteroid, or moon you were on. It would change it you were next to a large space station. It would change based on distances. The trick, and the important broader point, can be conceptualized with additional flanking perspective; the distance from the average planet to the average moon is just a few kilometers(usually 4 - 6.) Meaning; things are already being flubbed and that is okay because it is a game.

    So I will meet you half way; I say for now, take away the nebulas and add in a vivid starfield with an accretion disk(similar to seeing the milky way in out night sky.) I am game for a detente because one thing that is not easily explainable is why would there be different nebulas visible from within a single star system? THAT is a suspension of disbelief killer. Then, once we get multiple solar systems, get us some nebulas along with the starfield; some muted(like in Homeworld) and others vibrant, and voila! Suspension of disbelief re-kindled.

    It really is amazing how much of our preconceptions about space are mucked about with just because the images we see of space are wrong because cameras handle light exposure differently than our eyes/brain.
     
    #71
  12. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    You have a strange way of doing this that's akin to trolling...

    Stars are already in the game. The problem is with cheesy bright colored nebulas.

    Back to square 1 : "because it's a game doesn't mean it has to be cheesy". Consider : dark night on the planet, bright colors the moment you pop in space. No fancy technical or scientific explanation here: it's plain bad.

    There is fog and dust everywhere, around each planet, and thousandss of rocks that are pebbles on a system scale. Just to nag you more, I say this explains why just a few million km away makes for a new perspective (reflection nebulas).

    It's more amazing to read that after all what you wrote previously. Unless you were just trolling me, of course...

    This is one very good reason to change the visuals in space. If they don't give us a scanner/ radar for space, they can at least make the search less painful and lengthy... It is boring, there's no denying that for me, and I'm not alone.
     
    #72
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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  13. RazzleWin

    RazzleWin Captain

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    LOL getting the popcorn out again. ;)
     
    #73
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  14. Pantera

    Pantera Moderator
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    #74
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  15. Pantera

    Pantera Moderator
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    Hotfix 2019-09-20 (Build 2652)
    - Final fix for IndexOutOfRangeException (Issue with Drill using filler mode when underwater)
    - Sometimes chunks of structure missing on first visit
    - Spawner set wrong in POI "Abandoned Excavation Site"
     
    #75
  16. FUE DENIS

    FUE DENIS Commander

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  17. Sofianinho

    Sofianinho Captain

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    Press X to doubt.
     
    #77
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  18. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    [​IMG]
     
    #78
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  19. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Query: Why does being too cold affect my Jet Pack?

    When I get too cold my stamina starts to drop, a bit too quickly in my opinion, but ok. Also, I instantly move more slowly, right...if you say so. However, my Jet Pack doesn't fire for as long when in the "Too cold" state. Surely that's a mistake?

    Is it somehow linked to the "move slower" debuff and it's also incorrectly impacting the Jet Pack?

    You can test this easily, if somewhere cold. Simply do a vertical jet pack jump and note how high you get, then do the same while "too cold" you don't go as high. Combine this with horizontal movement - so, you're jumping over something - and you'll see distance overall is impacted.

    This is why sometimes being "too cold" can effectively cripple the player as their speed is nerfed instantly the state applies and not just the ability to sprint, while also nerfing the jet pack.

    I'm doing a game start on a very cold planet (Project Eden Scenario) so you have to get cold a LOT to just play the game. Having the jet pack nerfed too for the "too cold" state is a bit much!

    As the snow planet was removed from the starting options ages ago now, it's likely any normal players first encounters with excessively cold temperatures on a planet, comes when they are well equipped, so they never see this.

    Just thought it worth mentioning, as it'll be a vanilla problem again if colder starts are ever re-introduced.

    Scoob.
     
    #79
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  20. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    We could really use a proper suit power system . . .
     
    #80
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