Alpha 11.1: Stabilization, new stock Blueprints

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by EleonGameStudios, Nov 22, 2019.

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  1. Frigidman

    Frigidman Rear Admiral

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    .... aaaand if we can ever get the devs to remove Deco from CPU, then all those ships would be awesome !
     
    #81
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  2. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    I don't really use deco blocks much - I guess I lack imagination - but even I can see they need to be free of CPU cost. Free the Deco Block! :)

    Scoob.
     
    #82
  3. vscuorzo

    vscuorzo Commander

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    Don't hold your breath ;)

    I don't think it was ever stated but I think cpu is really aimed the reduce the amount of real processing the game itself needs to do. Each block will have some real cpu cost on performance, devices being the highest, and fewer blocks will mean better performance. The numbers may have been somewhat arbitrary in terms of absolute value but relative values probably correlate to the amount the block impacts performance. Deco blocks may not have much impact per block but with 100+ of them present, then it becomes more significant.

    If they remove the cpu cost on those blocks then people will ask for others too and you start to defeat the purpose of adding the system in the first place. Hopefully they just start doing more code optimization instead of relying on clunky limit mechanics to control performance.
     
    #83
  4. Frigidman

    Frigidman Rear Admiral

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    I think you misunderstood the actual point of the CPU system.

    Also, graphical weight is already handled with the Size Class system.
     
    #84
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  5. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Apparently not, the devs have said numerous times now that the CPU feature has very little to do with actual system CPU performance. Initially there was some confusion around this, but the devs clarified.

    Also, wasn't the whole Class system supposed to be the key indicator of how resource-heavy a particular BP might be? Aren't Server Admins able to limit by class?

    I'm not quite sure what CPU has achieved for the player-base from an additional game-play perspective. While I'm sure it's possible to design perfectly functional SV's and HV's within it, I feel it's taken away a LOT of the fun. Before it was a case of needing to level up, unlock the tech - or get a lucky find - and, if you have the materials, you can make it. It might not fly well - weights and volumes - it may not be able to fight well, but it's a unique creation that has potential. Now you might get stuck needing to find / buy (grind) components you cannot craft just to be able to use your latest project.

    CPU allowances seem fine with BA's and CV's - I made a modest mobile base CV, warp capable and shielded, within T2. It flies like a brick - an under-powered brick - but I love it. It can lift what I need it too, but the mass = speed reduction daftness, meant I had to bolt extra thrusters on it, pushing the CPU limit, and removing certain other options I wanted. I really hope the top-speed issue gets put back to mass only impacting acceleration (in space) how it should be. I'm fine with a brick having a reduced speed due to drag in atmosphere, but not due to weight.

    I used to derive great joy in building my first Survival HV - a major milestone - as even the most modest design would see you zooming over the landscape where before felt like a crawl. Genuinely exhilarating! Recently my first HV's have been...well, rather a let-down. Very basic, equally very light, but barely able to move due to aerodynamic drag issues (hopefully fixed now, right?) and the "too heavy" thing where something that's mostly thrusters can barely move its own weight lol.

    If the Mass-related top speed limit were removed, I'd likely be fine with CPU limits, though I do feel HV and HV limits need to start a little more generous and go from there. I build very basic, functional vessels, yet they become near- unusable very quickly, even when modestly loaded up with stuff in the early-game.

    Scoob.
     
    #85
  6. StyleBBQ

    StyleBBQ Captain

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    The new pre-fabs are amazing in their own rights & excellent examples of what can be done in EGS.

    This suggestion is just my own predilections :) , a line of pre-fab ships; Military Surplus.

    Just considering things from my own, 'form follows function' & 'tougher is always better' minimalist viewpoint.

    Were I a new player I'd be searching the pre-fabs for the 25th century equivalent of a duece and a half military truck for a T1 HV.
    No frills, tough, can haul some real weight and defend itself from critters and a drone or two.

    Something like the following that I built when trying to work with CPU (which I won't be turning on).
    With all 4 turrets CPU is 6753. Remove 2 turrets and it's just within T1 CPU.
    5750 SU, comfortably handle 60 ton loads in 1 g. No O2, Med or Constructor, just 1 fridge & detector. Basic Steel armor.
    [​IMG]

    Not saying they'd have to be quite this ugly of course, just a general 'tough' look.

    Btw, I haven't actually spawned any of the new pre-fabs, and I've already posted about the limited info (and missing pics) available, so I've no idea if there's already something like this available.
     
    #86
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  7. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    May I ask what the performance is like on that when laden? I managed some nice low-CPU designs myself - was quite pleased with them and their looks didn't make my eyes bleed for a change lol - however, if with a modest cargo capacity they rapidly become unusable due to the top speed being reduced. My original early-game HV - which was just a light, unarmed Hauler to help with mining and some looting activities - could still climb reasonably steep hills just fine when laden, so it could provide the force needed to push its own laden weight up hills. However, it was then limited to like 10ms or so, which was painful when I'd zoomed out to mine / loot at 50ms!

    Of course, I put more thrusters on it to compensate for the lack of speed when laden (argh!) but that eliminated other options I would have liked to have taken with this HV.

    Like I've said in the past, likely too much lol, CPU is Ok, though it could be a little more generous in some instances, but CPU and mass-limited top speed. Urgh.

    Scoob.
     
    #87
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  8. StyleBBQ

    StyleBBQ Captain

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    @Scoob , sry for delay, had to wait for update to finish. :)
    With a 60 ton load, combined total of 78 tons; forward is 11 m/s^2, sides 3, back 6. Yaw still 21 d/s. Max forward speed is 32 m/s
    With a 40 ton load, 15, 5, 7 & 43.5 m/s top speed.

    Edit: at 100 ton load, 7, 2, 4 & 20.5 m/s top speed. Still 15 d/s Yaw and plenty of lift force. Other than top speed I'd be quite happy driving it w 100 tons.

    With 12ea 1x1x1 Hover Engines at 200 kN each; 2,400 / 118 (tons) = 20 m/s^2 Lifting force

    So it still has a full 10 m/s^2 vertical accel after countering gravity. Meaning it doesn't 'bottom out' very easily.
    Also means it thinks it's a plane with unloaded, heh. talking serious hang time & distance off a mountain top!
     
    #88
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  9. KnowItAllDM

    KnowItAllDM Commander

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    So, I just continued a game I started in A11 (Now A11.1), and some of my small solar panels are not working. The lights at the bottom are all off. If I remove the panels, and replace them, they start working again, until I move far away, then return to find them off again. Is this a known issue or should I send in a bug report?
     
    #89
  10. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Thanks @StyleBBQ - sounds like a good HV, if only top speed didn't get limited! I'd get frustrated unfortunately, which I why I end up blowing so much CPU budget on Thrusters, when the HV shouldn't technically need it. I really hope the rethink this whole Mass impacts top speed thing, it's silly.

    Scoob.
     
    #90
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  11. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, the mass impacting top speed is a big problem. They should've made it as mass affecting top acceleration instead. A bigger, heavier ship will take longer to get to max speed, but it will get there.
     
    #91
  12. Ronewird

    Ronewird Commander

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    Random rules. The festival of non sense
     
    #92
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  13. Pantera

    Pantera Administrator
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    This isn't known I have tried myself going of your setup & the panels were working when I returned.
    Can you make a brief bug report with a copy of the save game & steps that you use where the issue will either always or sometimes happen ?
     
    #93
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  14. StyleBBQ

    StyleBBQ Captain

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    Solar Panels: in a game started in exp build 2717 I'm seeing solar panels output fluctuating rapidly between 2 values (in stats tab), as if, as others have mentioned, it can't decide if the panels are larges or smalls. This on a base that has only ever had large panels on it.
    * haven't confirmed this is still happening after todays patch

    ---

    No question if the "Top Speed is limited by Acceleration" were an Option, I'd never turn it On. :)

    @Scoob , kind of you, but I'd say, "eh, it's kinda ok I guess...". It was built for CPU and has a lot of compromises as a result.

    Basic premise was for a, 'step up from a GRU powered tiny starter'. Something to use to mine ore and, hopefully, be a somewhat passable salvage hauler as well.
    My personal criteria for that means at least 2 full stacks of ore, and was shooting for the ability to haul enough CV thrusters and bits for a very small CV in 2 or 3 trips.

    2 stacks of ore meant at least 4,000 SU. CV thrusters are heavy buggers; 16 tons per small & 21+tons for a medium? So was trying for a 100 ton capable hauler. Placing thrusters as far out on the back corners as I could provided ok turning when full, would prefer more though. And I'd normally have similar thrust side-to-side as forward, had to compromise there more than I like.

    And of course to be T1 CPU compliant it would only sport 2 turrets.
    Even with 4 it's still just a basic steel shell. Nothing I'd consider taking deep into Zirax territory even on the starter planet. A couple ground squads could knock out a couple thrusters and end you day.

    While I imagine some would consider 4 turrets for drone defense overkill, I don't for a couple of reasons.
    1) The, apparently, increased number of rocket drones out and about now. A couple good shots from them could take this out.
    2) As you've mentioned for a long time; the oddness in how long it takes for turrets to respond to a threat.
    3) When I built this there were quite a few more critters around, which seems to have been toned down now. With turrets set to engage predators they pretty much become 'village idiots', "oooh, shiny!" :) and won't switch to a drone until they've finally whacked that last spider. So without some why of focusing them onto a target via the hotbar, it's, imo, best not to expect them all to be doing what you'd hope they would.

    Ultimately this HV and seeing how a base quickly ran out of CPU points with an advanced constructor & deconstructor led me to "just say no" ;)

    I'm just not willing to make a bunch of extra trips when salvaging, in a 'specialized' hauler, to support a system that I can't figure the purpose of.

    Yet I'll still hedge my bets and acknowledge that I've no idea what the devs are thinking or what else may be coming. CPU may yet become the new Golden Child. :)
     
    #94
  15. vscuorzo

    vscuorzo Commander

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    I know the stated purpose is to encourage specialization, I'm just not buying it. I just feel like it's such a silly way to accomplish that and therefore there must be more to it than that. That's just my opinion though so I won't insist that anyone agree with me. I do hope that the initial implementation is just very rough and that they can shape it into something that truly becomes a valuable game mechanic. At the moment I see it as more of a nuisance but I won't turn it off unless it makes things totally unplayable.
     
    #95
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  16. vscuorzo

    vscuorzo Commander

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    I've had similar issues with solar panels since A11 came out when resuming a save from A10.2. I didn't create a bug report because I hadn't tried a fresh start in A11 to rule out a backwards compatibility issue but I may have to investigate this further now that others are seeing solar issues.
     
    #96
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  17. imlarry425

    imlarry425 Commander

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    The individual blocks of a model get rendered as individual blocks and it's easier to render a flat textured convex block that doesn't cast shadows than it is to render a complex shape with textures, nooks, and crannies which is pretty much the definition of a deco block. Maybe they didn't create CPU as a proxy for relative rendering cost but it effectively is acting as one. Wasn't there a chunk of junction pipe that had to be removed from the pallet because it was causing frame rates to drop when you used it?
     
    #97
  18. Leftcoast

    Leftcoast Lieutenant

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    The CPU is fine, they just need to fine tune it.

    You shouldn't be able to just make a kick ass one size fits all vehicle right off the bat. They system needs tweaking and balancing, I get that. It's also still in Alpha where this stuff gets adjusted so there is no problem here.
     
    #98
  19. Nerd01

    Nerd01 Commander

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    The last update make CV's turn a lot slower. I actually like this, because this makes sense. But now you have to push a button for a long time to turn. Buttons for turning should activate when you push it once, and It should deactivate when you push it again. If anyone here play world of warships(or anything similar) steering system there is also good, but of course it has to change a little bit to work on space properly.
     
    #99
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  20. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Try the pilot mode. :D
     
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