INFO & FEEDBACK [Alpha 11] CPU Points and Tiers - How does it work?

Discussion in 'FAQ & Feedback' started by Hummel-o-War, Oct 26, 2019.

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Did you understand the EXPLANATION on how the CPU and CPU Tier system works?

  1. Got it!

    47.3%
  2. Not really

    17.6%
  3. Do not care / do not see why we need CPU

    35.1%
  1. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    I. Goal and scope of CPU

    A. CPU Points
    The primary goal of adding CPU points is to add a way to allow some basic
    specialization and an additional way to balance vessels in regards of Thrust, RCS, weaponry and other performance parameters.

    Other features, added alongside CPU Points, will support that goal and open up alternative approaches.

    For example with A11 you do not necessarily need a (CPU points costly) RCS anymore, because the position of thrusters will gain you a decent torque as well and the new aerodynamics lift/drag model will allow SV designs, that have only a back-facing thruster, to work in atmospheres without to add any additional side, up or down thrusters! (We will detail the new Aerodynamics and Flight Model in a seperate post)

    B. CPU Tiers
    The
    CPU TIER SYSTEM is adding the possiblity to increase the basic CPU Points you get with the starter block ( with a Core = T1 ) up to SEVERAL TIMES the amount of the vessels or base T1 CPU Points.

    What means: You are NOT stuck on the CPU value the T1 stage with only the CORE offers!

    C. CPU Efficiency
    To add even more flexibility, the CPU Points and Tiers are not a “hard limit”.

    If your vessel equipment pushes the numbers beyond the CPU Points available for a Tier, your vessel or base will gradually lose efficiency, resulting in lower thrust, slower constructors etc. but it will still work.

    Important: The Efficiency will be tuned down (= Penalty increased) step by step in the next updates to possibly 20% Efficiency for overshooting the CPU points at 100% (Currently: 100% overshooting = will reduce Efficiency to 50%)

    Note: As of Alpha 11, only Thrusters and RCS are affected!

    D. Customization
    - Aas always, the CPU costs for indivdiual blocks and devices will be exported to the CUSTOM CONFIG , so you can decide which CPU device cost values you want to play with.
    - The CPU Tiers and how many CPU points these levels grant, will NOT be adjustable. They will remain hardcoded (also for Server owners) as they are a reference.

    E. WORKSHOP
    - Both the TIER as well as the EFFICIENCY will be saved with any Blueprint.
    - Both parameters cannot be manipulated by the uploader via custom configs. The game will always calculate the values by the hardcoded DEFAULT values when uploading a build to the Workshop. This way we ensure that the Workshop is not fragmented and there is a reference that always will be the default game.
    - Players that going to the Workshop will get
    new FILTER options to narrow down their search by Tier and Efficiency.

    II. Feature deployment plans

    1. EXPERIMENTAL

    The A11 Experimental version will have the CPU System activated by default with no option to deactivate it, so we get the most of the feedback.

    2. PUBLIC RELEASE
    When this version goes live on the public branch, we will not only add a SWITCH so you can decide if you want to play with CPU Points or not, but we also will set
    CPU Points to OFF per default. So any new and current player who does NOT want to play with CPU when starting a NEW game in A11 public version, will not have the CPU Points system in effect.

    Server owners will of course get the same option to choose between CPU on or off!

    3. FUTURE
    At some point in the future, when the feedback indicates the CPU Points have grown to a workable balance, we will switch the setup again, so from then on CPU Points will be
    activated by default when you start a new game, BUT you will still be able to decide to not use them as the setting for On/Off will stay in the game of course!

    Repeat: From this version until a not defined future patch, there will be ALWAYS a selector for Soloplayers and Server owners to use or do not use the CPU system!

    Furthermore: NONE of your Workshop items or uploads or ships or bases will actually BREAK. You might need to make a few adjustments (maybe sometimes just upgrade to a higher CPU Core) and possibly you can use ships that are gigantic jack-of-all-trade vessels only at a very low Efficiency, but NO build will be incompatible or destroyed! :)
     
    #1
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  2. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    III. CPU Tiers

    A. OVERVIEW

    There are 4 Tiers for each vessel and base:

    T1 = only the core
    T2 = Requires 1x T2 Extender
    T3 = Requires 2x T3 Extenders
    T4 = Requires 4x T4 Extenders

    Each completed TIER "unlocks" a definite amount of CPU Points (see CPU tab screenshot) you can then use to spend on devices and blocks.

    The highest Tier that is unlocked is the so called "working TIER" = the CPU Points unlocked with this level can be used. This tier is marked yellow/orange in the CPU tab.

    Removing or adding CPU extenders to any of the non-working tiers has no effect on your available CPU points.

    The current values are
    HV: 5.000 (T1), 12.000 (T2), 30.000 (T3), 70.000 (T4
    SV: 6.000 (T1), 15.000 (T2), 40.000 (T3), 100.000 (T4)
    CV: 200.000 (T1), 500.000 (T2), 1.500.000 (T3), 10.000.000 (T4)
    BA: 80000 (T1), 200.000 (T2), 500.000 (T3), 1.300.000 (T4)

    B. FUNCTIONS

    1. T1 always gives the basic amount of CPU Points when the core is placed. The CPU Extenders do NOT remove the need for the CORE!

    2. To unlock a CPU Tier you need to place ALL Extenders of the TIER you want to use.
    Example: For T4 you need to place 4x T4 Extenders. Using only 1,2 or 3 of the T4 Extenders will not give you any additional CPU Points. You can only use the T4 level of, for example 70.000 (HV), when you placed all 4 devices. Until then, you can only use the T3 level (30.000)

    3. If you have one or several additional Tiers completed and you LOOSE a device from the highest (working) Tier-level (f.ex in combat), you drop back to the NEXT lower (completed) Tier
    Loosing a CPU Tier will also remove the CPU Points available and thus possibly lower the Efficiency of your vessel
    Example: You have a working CPU T4 (70.000 for HV), but no working T2 or 3. Now one of the T4 Extenders is destroyed. As a result, you drop back to the T1 level (5000 for HV). If you would have had a 2 T3 Extenders in your vessel, the destruction would have only dropped you back to T3 ( 30.000 ).

    Tip: Having LOWER CPU tiers in your vessel or base will work as a FALLBACK. When a higher Tier is lost you do not drop to T1, but maybe only to the next lower tier (which means the Efficiency of your affected base or vessel is not decreased too much)

    ===

    CPU Extender Blocks
    20191026185653_1.jpg
    (Note: Models are PLACEHOLDERS!)

    CPU detail info, broken down in terms of costs per block and device in a NEW Control Panel Tab
    20191028181058_1.jpg
     
    #2
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  3. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    IV. QUESTIONS and ANSWERS

    Q: Do I need to place the T2 Tier before I can place the T3 or T4
    A: No. You can start with either tier, what means that you do not need to have the T3 tier placed or working to build up or use the T4!

    Q: Do ALL the blocks and devices cost CPU?
    A: Blocks with for example less or equal to 10 HP will not cost CPU. Apart from that, ALL building blocks and devices cost CPU points.

    Q: Do I need to place the Extenders touching the core or similar?
    A: NO. You can freely place any Extender wherever you want.

    Q: Can I change the amount of CPU points a CPU Tier unlocks - or is this planned at least?
    A: 2x No

    Q: Can i playe more of a levels CPU Extender, like placing 10x T4?
    A: No. This will remain a hard limit and will also not be changeable.

    Q: Is the CPU system designed to improve the GAME performance?
    A: No. There possibly *might* be a slight performance gain, in terms of players might place fewer blocks, but this is not more than a side effect. The measurement for GAME PERFORMANCE are still the SIZE CLASSES.

    Q: Can i use my old workshop subscriptions and blueprints with CPU points?
    A: Yes. It might happen that they only have a low Efficiency and you might possibly need to make some adjustments, but you got a dedicated CPU tab in the Control Panel to help you tracking down where you could optimize your vessel! No build or bp will become "incompatible".

    Q: How do i GET one of the CPU Extenders?
    A: You craft them.
    • The T2 Extender only require ingredients you can craft without any special collectibles
    • For T3 and 4 you need to either find the required OPTRONIC BRIDGE (For T3) or the OPTRONIC MATRIX (for T4) in a POI or you go to BERTRAMS or SERVANT traders or the QuantumSTAR Traders in the Polaris orbital Trading station in the orbit of the Starter Planet and buy them..if you have the money. (We *might* also probably add a PDA mission to retrieve these Items OR the Extenders itself, but obviously not for missions that can be repeated!)
    • The HV and SV CPU Extenders need the SMALL version of the items, the CV and BA CPU Extenders will require the LARGE versions of the bridge and the matrix
    Q: Can I save on CPU by switching devices off?
    A: No (has been considered but is not planned yet )

    Q: Can I decide to switch off CPU entirely in the Custom Game Settings for a new savegame?
    A: When the A11 goes live on the public branch, CPU will be default-OFF, but you can actively decide to play with CPU enabled if you wish (Setting also available for server owners!)

    Q: Are the games default prefab blueprints (F2) compliant to CPU?
    A: Not yet. We will do the same as we also recommend to any builder out there: wait untly the A11 is released to the public and then adjust the vessels and bases!

    Q: Will the blueprint factory REQUIRE the collectibles for T3/4 CPU Extenders?
    A: YES

    Q: When the EFFICIENCY drops, are ALL devices of my ship affected or only cerain devices, like thrusters?
    A: The "penalty" on Efficiency will affect ALL devices, but for the current Alpha 11 we will start with Thrusters and RCS - and add more as we develop.

    (will be continued as more questions arise)
     
    #3
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  4. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    -tba-
     
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  5. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    -tba-
     
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  6. Myrmidon

    Myrmidon Rear Admiral

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    I get it how it works but I prefer to state my thoughts after I put my hands on actual gaming with this restriction. Because as I understand it is a new restriction rule and nothing more.

    In general though, after seeing how the developers are shaping this game :

    My point of view is that no matter the game rules/restrictions and general set gameplay, there is and should awlays be a way to keep things less complicated when needed. Complicated game rules might be nice to "solve" and I always see them as a puzzle but whenever the case is that they interfere with how I prefer to spend my time gaming I either end up circumvent them or ignore the game, in the end. Also once the puzzle is solved, there is no interested to solve it again, specially if iit is the same one repeating itself.
     
    #6
  7. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    Thats what the ON/OFF-switch will be for. ;)
     
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  8. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    I am eager to start this new challenge:D.

    Btw., will those T2- T4 Blocks ...one day... be able to get different shapes like other Blocks? Eventually like the Container Extensions?
     
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  9. Arrclyde

    Arrclyde Rear Admiral

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    So to get the most out of the cpu value you need to find stuff that is loot only and not craftable?

    I knew why i didn't find that tier idea very smart. An artificial way to slow people down.

    But i am willing to wait to finally judge the system when it goes life.
     
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  10. Arrclyde

    Arrclyde Rear Admiral

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    I am so curious how it will work. Most interesting: how will you land with only backwards facing thrusters?
    And so now thruster placement does matter... that will make some people happy.
     
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  11. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Excited for this but I know balancing will be a rocky road. :D
    This is a lot of content for a x.6 update!
     
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  12. Safeara

    Safeara Ensign

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    Should not bases have more CPU power than CV's? I land CV's on some bases as they are generally larger than the CV's. A base usually has all the goodies that you can make in the game.
     
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  13. piddlefoot

    piddlefoot Rear Admiral

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    I dont like CPU much, but I like that you guys are trying to address flight controls in the atmo, thats huge plus for teh feature if you can get it to work good.
     
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  14. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Rear Admiral

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    Is the Mockup Size of the Extenders Placeholder as well? (For example, those 4 T4 Extenders are taking up 8 Block Spaces it seems... does that mean those T4 Extenders will be 1x2x1 or 2x1x1 or 1x1x2 Block Spaces in Size...? :confused:)

    No deal. I'm always gonna hug my Core & Extenders together so I can consolidate protection of them all on one place instead of having to waste Block CPU on more Blocks to enclose more 'CPU Nest Locations'.

    Probably the Launchpad McQuack way. :p *Wonders if anyone aside from me used to watch the old "Duck Tales" Cartoons...?*

    This seemed curious to me as well... plus Bases have bigger dudes CVs can't have, like Furnaces...

    & no I don't wanna hear it that Bases don't have to give a damn about Thruster or RCSs cause they don't move anyway... directly because they can't move, they tend to need to be built stronger & bulkier then a CV cause they HAVE to take Beating they'll never be able to Dodge. ;)
     
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  15. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    Besides of Truster and RCS:D;)
     
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  16. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    This one restriction isn't going to go over well with a good amount of players I can tell that you now.. T3 and T4 has to be ORE based not some parts you have to find or buy at a trade station. I'm thankful for the off switch but this is an Alpha game but how can players be sure that once the game is finished the Devs won't remove the off switch? If this isn't about performance then it seems like a very over complicated way to slow progression in game down. There has to be a less complicated way and builder friendly way to do this.
     
    #16
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019
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  17. xerxes86

    xerxes86 Commander

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    It's probably not going to work very well, at least at the start. With the W/V system you better have some backyard thrust if you have anything in your cargo hold. As it stands now you need quite a lot of backwards thrust to stop you vehicle if have any cargo.
     
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  18. xerxes86

    xerxes86 Commander

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    My thoughts exactly...
     
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  19. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    I'm going to miss the days when Empyrion was less complicated than Space Engineers. :eek:
     
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  20. xerxes86

    xerxes86 Commander

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    Yeah, sounds like you could be waiting to find those parts for the T3, and T4 for a long time. I can see you getting the usual 900 T1 multitools, and never finding even one part you need. Also buying the parts, yeah sure, you have to build another special craft to go to space and search endlessly for a base that is "selling" the items. I can see it now, in the future, stores will never advertise, hide there location, and have only one item for sale.
     
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