Alpha 12.3 Public Release

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Hummel-o-War, Jul 23, 2020.

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  1. Beasthammer

    Beasthammer Commander

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    Guys @Space Ghost , @Kassonnade , @StyxAnnihilator , @monktk this is what i was telling them in many threads before and always... Current system defies logic pretty much. I've suggested a minigame like base attack scenario... With different stages to prevent the attacks by killing recon drones etc...
    Sometimes the game just forgets, it is missed the base attacks and double spawns the attacker fleet on the next reload. (I can not talk about the latest build because i haven't tried it yet, but i think the old system is more or less the same.)

    As i see it, this problem roots in two systems which affect the whole gameplay.
    One is the AI... It had improved a lot, but it still lacks tactics in general. It shows some behavior, but usually it is pretty basic. (Sometimes the spawn rates are so fast, that you can't even notice the cheating AI )

    Second is difficult settings: Are a basic concept too, every game uses this numeric a Lvl X+Constant*Difficult settings formula like aproach. So basicly what im saying a lvl 10 soldier will be X times stronger then you but it will be as dumb as the lvl 1 soldier...

    Someday i would like to see that the AI on lvl 10 has more tactics, smarter and not just stronger than the player and the game will let us have that chase and the adrenalin boost while we are hunting them down instead of multirocketing the shet out of the never ending spawn...

    The AI should play with you, not just reacting to the player's actions. It should randomly poke / attack you with random drones /vessels or just lure you in a trap. Sometimes with low insterest facilities don't even respond to your attacks... For me this tactical decesion making is missing completely.

    But maybe some day we will have that more realistic AI which is minig for resources, which may run out of resources, which may send you a message: "Screw you, i surrender this facility... It is yours.." just to be back later to tear it apart with a fleet (where you have the opportunity to defend or flee)

    Just make a self learning Ai which analyses the player behavior on offical server to construct it's own attacks.
     
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  2. ChumSickle

    ChumSickle Captain

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    My simple opinion is that in a game as wide open as this I’m fine with rather simplistic AI. I would like to see the NPC scripting enhanced a bit at trading posts and neutral POIs so they feel less lifeless though.

    One idea I had was that base attacks increase in intensity slowly, but steadily until nearly overwhelming. Unless the player actively fights back.

    Just as a “back of a napkin” illustration, if a planet has 10 Zirax poi’s the difficulty will range from 1 (a single drone) to 10 (multiple drones, carriers, ground troops, perhaps a CV patrol vessel). At first the attacks will be manageable, but if left unchecked will either become a full time job defending or force the player to leave.

    Unless the player fights back: take out a few POIs and the intensity drops...you reduced their available fighting force. Wipe them out completely then all attacks stop for good.
     
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  3. The Salty Snake Chef

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    Sounds cool. I would recommend if your talking about base attacks is Reforged Galaxy (preferably Reforged Eden). While base attacks don't increase in severity (haven't stayed on a planet too long to notice) the base attacks do increase in difficulty based on the level the playfield is labeled as. Ultra difficulty being fun and love with 50 plus Zirax troops assaulting your BA.
     
    #223
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  4. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    I think this might not be possible without sacrificing significant CPU juice, but I guess it can be "simulated" and still be perceived as "learning" for the end user if well designed. But it's easier in a normal game, where players can be restrained in actions and movement. In an open world, sanbox, with modifiable terrain, just simple AI pathmaking is complex. The pawns have to be autonomous, and for them to find the player the game already has to "cheat" without making it too apparent. Big AAA studios invest lots of resources to make AI "believable" and most of the time players criticize it.
     
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  5. Bollen

    Bollen Captain

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    So... I've been meaning to participate in this latest discussion, but wanted to try out the new AI before forming an opinion. I have always enjoyed that every big update has forced me to play the game differently and this last one is perhaps the most different after the inclusion of Shields on Zirax ships/stations. Anywho... So I played for two days and found that it's most certainly manageable:

    1.- As always, best practice is to start with the first base underground! Solar panels very far apart and hidden small turrets will deal with incoming patrols for a good while.

    2.- For POIs you need manpower and numbers! Currently the only way to achieve this in SP is to build cheap tank HVs and throw them in the playfields, they will distract most soldiers and turrets while you get in and once conquered you can make many of these HVs with the salvage. (one of the reasons I've been requesting Auto Pilot for years, so that we can automate SVs and HVs to go into the battle zone before us ;)).

    3.- The inclusion of SV turrets have made it considerably easier in comparison to my previous gamestyle! However, if you're unlucky to get a seed that puts some heavy enemy CVs in your orbit, my old strategy seems to still work well: make cheap (disposable) CV turrets! I'm talking 6-8 blocks with a fuel tank, ammo box and turrets on every corner. Keep as many as you can afford in your Factory and drop them as needed in enemy space.

    Also worth considering in point 3, mine in smallest SV you can make and park them inside the asteroids, drones can't shoot them there. And of course there's the old trick (which I'm not sure if it still works), but whenever you leave your base, CV or SV change it to public and it won't get attacked.

    PS: there's loads of really good suggestions here! I want to add my +1 for increasing spawn distance. And of course Auto Pilot so that we can give ourselves some backup/reinforcement in SP... Although if we could get up while the ship is moving this would also be possible!
     
    #225
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  6. stanley bourdon

    stanley bourdon Captain

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    this has been completely removed including the ability to set to public as a means of giving an asset to another player. I guess you can remove the core, just remember to make a new one first.
     
    #226
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  7. Beasthammer

    Beasthammer Commander

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    Well for me this is only difficult for the first time, because i use 6-8 gattlings on my noob SV. When i realize where the core is, i will just shoot thru all the lvls from above... Core dead - no respawns

    I don't know if it still works but i think in alpha 11, if you have destroyed the core of the POI in that region, leave the place and return some time later, the game cleared all the patrols of that area.

    Easiest way to clear out any poi is to have a tube like 2x2 block wide or 3x3 block wide 6 gattling ship and go underground. With a t2 drill it is relatively easy to find the bottom of the poi, so you may need only clear the bottom lvl. core dead - no turrets, no respawns (this is only difficult if u use mass enabled, cause you need quite many rounds to tear that shield down.)

    I don't know the current state but for this to be enjoyable there should be an adjustable timer to have those corpses when you have finished the fight, because sometimes they get deleted before you even loot them.
     
    #227
  8. Bollen

    Bollen Captain

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    Yeah I really hate that, I understand the need for it on a server, but let me keep my dead bodies on my SP game as long as I want... I basically dislike any form of "de-spawning", just destroys the immersion and feels like a bug...
     
    #228
  9. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Have them dissolving like in acid, with bubbles and particle effects... They have Alien's enzymes...
     
    #229
  10. Bollen

    Bollen Captain

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    [​IMG]
     
    #230
  11. icky

    icky Lieutenant

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    is everything outside the starter system meant to be so empty now? i go to systems outside territories and theres just NOTHING on planets besides resources and wreckages/crashed cv/ruins etc... i did find the occasional trader faction station on a planet but it was just a recycled old trade station. not even any actual traders so pretty pointless. went to polaris territory and found ONLY polaris stuff. and not anything beyond basic trade stations. they didnt even have station services. no alien "abandoned" pois outside the starter system. maybe some in legacy space but i didnt get that far. there was one trader guild cv in space in polaris territory. but again, its kinda pointless unless i wanna shoot it. i really hope this is unintended because it just makes me not want to play the game knowing the most exciting planet is the one you start on and theres really no point in leaving.

    EDIT: yes i started a fresh 12.3 game. i had started in 12.2 and it was the same after the 12.3 update so i started fresh and gave myself a cv and some pentaxid to go exploring with just to be sure.
     
    #231
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  12. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    It's "in the works", as many more factions and groups will get added at some point, with specific color schemes and build types. Have a look in the "Lore" threads:

    https://empyriononline.com/forums/lore-story-and-factions.94/

    And also this :

    https://empyriononline.com/threads/...ps-for-non-territory-space.94666/#post-408161


    .
     
    #232
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  13. ChumSickle

    ChumSickle Captain

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    To add: Space is big...if every single planet had cities, POIs, trading centers, and other "attractions" it may be more interesting as far as playing, it wouldnt really be all that realistic. And I know...we really dont want >too< much realism...i dont want to visit a few million stars just to find a planet that may have a breathable atmosphere...but the sparce nature of space does lend prudence to the "There is a whole lot of nothing out there."

    My hope, is that in time as they further develop the story that there will be more core worlds that are better developed.

    In the words of Capt. Malcom Reynolds "Its getting awful crowded in my sky"
     
    #233
  14. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Look at what they did with "food" at some point : when we pick a "specific item" it gives a "component type" which can then be used in a recipe.

    If they had made the same with other materials, then we could go to many moons and planets to get different "specific items" (rocks and stuff) yielding variable amounts of "component types" in the mix, making it look more like exploring than just visiting different templates with the same things in them.

    They could then have some procedural rocks + coloring to add some randomness to worlds regarding materials. So some worlds could be rich in 1 or 2 types, but poor in other types (very poor). It would then become a question of balance to allow players to decide if it's worth collecting all rocks on a planet to get a little bit of X component, or just try some another planet.
     
    #234
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  15. ChumSickle

    ChumSickle Captain

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    Not a bad idea. But if you think about it, the possibilities are pretty endless, it would just take some balancing.

    Specialty rare ores that allow you to upgrade armor even more. Rare enough that building an entire large CV with it would be nearly impossible, but reinforcing certain areas.

    Heck, even just “enhanced” ores they already have, like “pure erestrum” that makes more potent projectiles. “Pure Sathium” that makes slightly tougher armor. And so on. Even just a 5-10% bonus to potency through “pure” deposits would make them worthwhile to go for, but not so OP that people couldn’t make do without.

    But again, I think some people’s fears (and mine to a point) is that there are so many different things that could be done, but they just never will. And ultimately it will just be Minecraft in space.
     
    #235
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  16. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Fear kills creativity.

    What I like to do when I'm doing "creative work" in any context is to look at all the tools and materials available, make some rough drafts of ideas on paper, and let is sit for a while in plain view. After some time, new ideas pop up, and I add them to the drafts.

    The main thing that could help creativity here, from my experience, is to make documentation more user-friendly and centralized. Then we might see how easy it is to tap in a whole community to get fresh ideas, with concrete ways to achieve things.
     
    #236
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  17. byo13

    byo13 Captain

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    To add to the discussion, there's a lot you can do in the game beyond minecraft stuff.
    This topic is the best example that you can play the game everyday and do different stuff, discover new gorgeous systems, survive hostile planets, visit POIs (which are increasing in variety with every update).
    And when bored, just build another space station. :D
     
    #237
  18. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    I had a look in the Lore & Story threads, and there are also lots of player submitted content in there for factions, with very fleshed out background stories and some example builds. When these get in the game we should feel the "content" is truly inflating, far beyond the few factions we have now.

    If I was to make a scenario, I would make far less planets with fauna, like @ChumSickle mentioned, to avoid seeing the same fauna too often. So more deserts and rocks, less water, and keep forests and swamps in a minority of worlds far apart from each other.
     
    #238
  19. yataro79

    yataro79 Lieutenant

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    Oh yes, please. I'd never dare to ask, but yes, please!
     
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