Alpha 8.0 EXP: Suit- and Survival Mechanics

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by Hummel-o-War, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    DISCLAIMER
    When you play Alpha 8.0 the first time, please note that it is now possibly a reasonably DIFFERENT experience than back in 7.6! The distances are bigger, the drops are different, the mechanics got changed, new possibilities added and a lot of stuff got moved around.

    We absolutely RECOMMEND to first read through ALL of the feedback threads postet in this forum to get yourself up to date on the new and changed game mechanics BEFORE starting any new game!
    -----
    Startup:
    - Build the Survival Tool at first
    - Collect fiber and ore
    - Craft a survival tent (SP only)
    - Collect former Corn Dog plants (now dropping Plant Protein); the red plant parts are visible from further away in the grassland.
    - To maintain a better overview, use 3rd Person mode when moving around (you might spot collectibles, ore and plants better!)

    Tips:
    - The Silicon you need for building a Survival Constructor can be found in the biomes next to the Starter Area (f.ex. in the Forest). Search for small "Silicon Resource Rocks".
    - The large(r) rocks that formerly used to drop a lot of ores are now dedicated to provide (more) Crushed Stone, as we added three distinct Resource Rocks for Iron, Copper and Silicon.
    - You can also reprocess Iron, Copper and Silicon from Crushed Stone in the Survival Constructor now!
    -----

    - Suit Constructor -

    20180511163144_1.jpg

    Q: What can I do with the Suit Constructor?
    A: Create some basic items and devices that should you get started until you can afford a Survival Constructor or if you are around without any other support.

    Q: Which items are currently available in the Suit Constructor?
    A: (See screenshot above; from top-left to bottom right)
    - Berry Juice: Basic health-restoring food item; Will reduce Bodytemperature
    - Energy Drink: Restores Stamina
    - Hot Beverage: Increases Body Temperature
    - Vegetable Juice: Basic health-restoring food item; Will reduce Bodytemperature
    - Portable Constructor: Improves your possibilities of creating better tools, weapons and blocks to start a Hover Vessel or a small base
    - Mobile Air Conditioner: Will level temperature in a 1-2 blocks radius to 25°C. Maximum of temperature change is +/-30°. Eg. if you in an environment with -10° the Air Conditioner will max it up to +20°.
    - Emergency Generator: Can create Respirator Charges (O2) and Water Bottles, but needs energy sourc (like BioFuel)
    - Antibiotic Ointment: Heals Open Wound (See thread about new Status Effects for more info)
    - Survival Tool: Rock-drilling, Deconstruct, Defense (See Question below)
    - Survival Tent: At night you can sleep 8h until the next morning (to overcome cold night temperatures, f.ex); See Question about Sleeping below.
    - AntiToxic Ointment: Heals Poison Bit and other Stage 1 effects (See thread about new Status Effects for more info)
    - Power Bar: Made from Plant Protein / basic food item
    - Plant Protein (Converter Template): Creates Plantprotein from vegetables
    - Bandages: Fixes broken bones (See thread about new Status Effects for more info)

    Note: This list is subject to change / work in progress and may change in the development of EXP version and beyond!

    Q: What is the Survival Tool?
    A: This is a little helper that can be produced free of cost in your Suit Constructor. You can break some stones for ore, slowly deconstruct blocks and it has a low-power defense mode to scare away animals, but it is not suitable for a real fight. The Survival Tool is meant to be used in the very early game and situations where you have lost all your stuff and need to start over. It is not a replacement for proper weapons or drills.
    A: Note: using the Survival Tool DRAINS STAMINA as kind of an 'Energy Resource' for now.

    Q: Does the Suit Constructor drain energy?
    A: Most likely not - at least not in the Alpha 8.0. This is pretty much subject to change in the future when the overall topic of 'Suit energy consumption' will be addressed (also relates to Light, NV, Boosters etc).

    - Sleeping -

    Q: Are there limitations, like not being able to sleep when I am followed by enemies?
    A: Currently you can only sleep at night (subject to change possibly) as long as there are no enemies in a 50m radius.

    Q: Does sleeping add or remove any Status Effects?
    A: Sleeping currently removes Hangover and BadTrip by sleeping; and increases or decreases body temperature (depending on which status the player has: Too Cold, Freezing, Collapse etc)

    Q: How does sleeping work and where can I sleep?
    A: You can use the Escape Pod, Survival Tent and any Bed by pressing F (default USEkey)

    Q: Does sleeping work in Multiplayer or Coop as well?
    A: No, this will remain an exclusive feature for single player in the near future. As a side note: To make this feature work in Multiplayer, ALL player would need to go to "bed" at the same time, as we cannot advance time if a player is still "active". We might possibly find a solution for this in the future, maybe for small-groups MP like Coop, but until then, this will remain a single player only feature

    Q: When forwarding time aka 'sleeping' in MP does not work, what about having a 'save logoff' instead?
    A: Yes, we already considered 'saving' your re-entry by using a Clone Chamber or similar. This is already on the list for future updates, but not in the scope for the initial Alpha 8.0 as a lot of side-effects that result from this need to be taken into account (like what happens if the ship is destroyed or captured or the device is removed and so on...).
     
    #1
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  2. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    KNOWN ISSUES:

    - .. -
     
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  3. Combat Wombat

    Combat Wombat Lieutenant

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    Survival constructor still doesn't consume any energy/fuel making it the optimum way to do tons of things all the way through the game. Survival constructor needs to use some kind of fuel more than ever now that we have a suit constructor for the truly basic things.
     
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  4. Kosmic Kerman

    Kosmic Kerman Lieutenant

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    So I haven’t played since about 7.3 or 7.4 but I’d hardly say that: a) the survival constructor is optimal or b) that power is really a concern after the very early game. In other words, after you are established it doesn’t matter whether the SC uses power. Minmaxers will use it because they are constitutionally incable of doing otherwise. But who cares. The main impact this will have is increasing the power crunch in the very early game. So any change to the SC should be made with the explicit goal of balancing the early game—not worrying about what some players will do in the mid or late game.
     
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  5. Combat Wombat

    Combat Wombat Lieutenant

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    Then why have energy at all? Thats a pretty poor excuse. Its supposed to be a survival game. If you don't wanna do survival mechanics play in creative mode.
     
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  6. jadefalcon

    jadefalcon Commander

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    Are the Icons for Rock Drill and Defence Mode meant to be the same?

    upload_2018-4-24_19-53-45.png
     
    #6
  7. JuStX2

    JuStX2 Captain

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    Can't say I enjoy 8.0 very much - the beginning is too much of a walking simulator, the resources you need are never nearby, and most importantly i can't even get proper ammo because there's no copper ingots to be had from the rocks anymore.

    While I realize I could use the survival constructor and drill tons of rock - the problem is I run out of food well before I even have a chance to get anything meaningful - just say no to alpha 8.9's new game start.

    Also Giving us 1 silicon for 25 crushed rock seems more of a time sync and don't even get me started on copper. If you really want to get serious LOWER the amount of grind - and INCREASE playability.
     
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  8. Space Beagle

    Space Beagle Captain

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    I will copy here also my take on change with Biofuel source, that I don't like o_O

    One thing that I really don't like for now is change for Biofuel, we basically need to chop trees for basic fuel also! fibers everywhere & for everything... and what now with all those spoiled food??? ... and most of the stuff spoil pretty fast, and it is ok - if I can save it & use it for fuel. Does not make much sense also, fuel from fiber :(
    Promethium is a long away from most players in early game - now we need to work a lot to get even to bike or basic HV or basic base... having spoiled food stash for biofuel will not take away anything from early survival... me thinks :rolleyes:

    Now there is another thing that is going to change in future, I'm kinda sure, but I want to take a notice of it :)
    We are starting in our space pajamas, which is OK for new version of game start, but when we look at us - we don't have anything on us! ... yet, we carry personal drone, survival constructor, lots of other stuff, all in our pajama pockets... and it is a bit (a lot) silly like this! So can you add to player something like removable 'survival kit' that looks maybe like a backpack and a gizmo on our sleeve and a belt with few pouches... Just a thought, a good one :cool:
     
    #8
  9. Neil

    Neil Captain

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    There is a starter biome adjacent to the wreckage (a huge field) where iron AND copper can be found. Seems to be a lot less copper than iron, but it is there.

    Look for the protein plants (old corn-dog plants). These can be used by the suit constructor to make power bars, worth 90 food.

    I've not found silicon yet, just saw in this main topic where that even is.

    My biggest problem to date is temperature control. I freeze when the temperature gets into the 40's. I also miss the jet-pack and body light.
     
    #9
  10. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    This isn't meant to be your main source of basic resources throughout the game; it's a way to get a very small amount of resources in a pinch (such as when you're just starting out or have had something catastrophic happen to you), and as an endgame sink for the vast amount of crushed stone you'll end up with once you've done a bunch of HV mining.

    The main issue is that now you can craft unlimited quantities of Survival Constructors, so substantial farms of Survival Constructors is a viable way to mass-process resources. Sure, there's a bit more shift-clicking than if you were to use a Furnace, but consider that 4 Survival Constructors do the same work that a Furnace does in the same amount of time (assuming you distribute the resources to be processed evenly). A proper power system for both the suit and terrain-placeable objects would be nice.
     
    #10
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  11. scottster858

    scottster858 Ensign

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    The starting of 8.0 is slower, which is not a bad thing. One thing I am not sure I like at this point is normal stamina restore uses your food. I was running around looking for those ore stones, and realized a was really low on food much quicker than I ever remembered. Then I noticed how fast the food bar was dropping as my stamina was raising, but once stamina was full, the food stopped dropping at a rapid rate. This makes the start (before a bike) very slow as you need to walk a lot or you will run out of food.

    Still getting used to the other changes. It does seem that food decays faster. By night time of the first day, I was already losing perishables I had collected. So, I would agree with a post above, let us be able to use the spoiled food for something early, like bio-fuel.

    I decided to test something (so did some cheating to get a few items quickly, I didn't like how I started once I figured out some of these changes so going to start a new game) and built a small base to see if it caused a drone attack right away (easy start). I did not get a message about a drone attack. So, was this changed as to the trigger point? Or are they just waiting a bit longer?

    Going to start again and see if I can find the starting ore rocks. I was having trouble finding enough to make a drill. See if a different seed is any better.
     
    #11
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  12. michaelhartman89

    michaelhartman89 Rear Admiral

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    Survival tent leaves hole in the world after picking it up

    Ability to Reproduce: Sometimes
    Where: Server : CRAFTOHOLICS TORONTO w/ CB AND SPOTGUARD A8 Experimental
    Build Version: 8.0.0 1591

    EDIT:
    Not Sure what happened bc when I relogged the ground was different and a tree spawned in there
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. runlykhel

    runlykhel Commander

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    Just another observation regarding the survival tool; seems to use as much if not more stamina then running. It would seem that power tools are to reduce intense labor, not be as physically demanding, unless all that vibrating makes the character hold on tight like a bucking bronc...lol :eek:

    Edit: found further information on page one; stamina is a temporary energy source for the survival tool, blushes...hind sight is 20-20.:oops:
     
    #13
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
  14. theFisher86

    theFisher86 Ensign

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    As someone who bought Empyrion on Steam a long time ago and never played it until just a couple weeks ago and now I'm trying out the experimental 8 here's my take on it:

    Maybe too difficult to start out.

    I land my pod and follow the tutorial prompts which eventually lead me to a crashed ship and then tell me to get armor, weapons and head to the alien tower. At this point I'm almost starving as there's a bunch of plants around but not many actually give you substantial food and I can't find the ingredients to make the food anywhere. However, I've made it to the crash that the game marked as a waypoint for me so I should get some essentials here right? Not always, second playthrough the wreck spawned so that the whole in the middle you have to climb up was a couple feet off the ground, being that I don't have any armor yet I can't use a jetpack to fly up some I can't get to the stuff in the locker. Eventually though I get to the locker and get some stuff out, cool. Now I'm searching around for copper and silicon. It is not obvious at all to a new player that these tiny stones hidden in the grass are where I'm going to find copper, I'd think I could get to it when I reach this Copper/Silicon Deposit that popped up on my map. I get there just to find out my survival tool doesn't mine through the ground. I can't build the drill because I need the ore. So I eventually discover the small rocks are what I'm looking for, however those are hard to find and I'm starving here remember. So I've mined enough ore to start making stuff, make my drill and my pistol and whatnot. Oh Light Armor, that'll help! Nope! Can't put it on without an armor locker? Where are those? Oh i've gotta build a base to build an armor locker. Okay, let's go back to the ore deposits and mine some stuff to build a base. Dig, dig dig. Oh crap, now I've dug a hole and I still don't have a jetpack to get out of the hole! And I chose an EASY START!

    So that's been my experience so far. While, yes I have a sarcastic tone there it's more laughing at myself due to my struggles. Using console commands I was able to resolve all my issues. But here's what I would recommend in order to make things easy on us noobs.
    • Maybe start with a special armor called emergency armor or something that is like Light Armor but it degrades and can only be used for 3 days or something. This would give players something to work with to start off but wouldn't replace Light armor. Obviously this armor wouldn't require an Armor Locker to put it on. It also has the added benefit of a time rush at the beginning.
    • The tutorial prompts should recommend you mine some copper, silicon, etc to make the weapons and mark the small rocks containing those on your map as POIs or at least describe them in detail so new players know what to look for.
    • Start the player off with some food. Enough to satiate their hunger after the crash and then some. It's an emergency escape pod, it should have at least 48 hours worth of food stored in it.
    • Rework the model for the crash site you have to visit so that the locker isn't unreachable without a jetpack.
    • This last one is unrelated to the survival aspect and more for the graphics. Something just seems "off" about them. Like the gameplay aspects of this game are amazing but the graphics don't feel very 2018. I don't think it's the models or the textures though, I think you need more effects going on. Maybe some fog in the distance and cool light stuff. But the game looks like other current games when they have their graphics settings on Super Low.
     
    #14
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  15. michaelhartman89

    michaelhartman89 Rear Admiral

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    2 1/2 hours of running, starving freezing, overheating in this new dying simulator where it is impossible to find the materials to build a survival constructor. The tent doesn't work on multiplayer to escape extreme temps, so you are constantly dying in these areas.

    My observation:

    Why is it going to the extreme level of survival?

    Who has fun in a walking/eating/mining simulator?

    I feel these things will upset and drive away the casual crowd. I don't find it at all interesting or fun. I understand that this is experimental and the first day of release, but if I have to grind for 50 hours to get to the fun content I am done with Empyrion. I fear that there is a HUGE crowd of die hard survivalists swaying the devs to implement more and more grinding every update.

    When will the economics, npc's, lore and automation get some love?
     
    #15
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  16. michaelhartman89

    michaelhartman89 Rear Admiral

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    There is a need for using the tent to avoid freezing temps, food is draining almost instantaneously after eating and animals can and WILL follow you indefinitely including underwater where they don't drown, thus trapping you to starve to death. BTW your stamina won't recharge due to your low health.

    Why is suit power based off stamina and why does this affect the survival tool?

    This makes no sense and it should be reworked you can fuel this item or have it recharge via solar!
     
    #16
  17. JuStX2

    JuStX2 Captain

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    It's not even viable for that much.


    ANYWAY - i booted up the game again - and got a little further - now I've got armor and a BA and HV - but it took several deaths to get this far - where as in 7.0 the only thing killing me was the terrain and the enemies.

    I can't say I enjoyed the beginning hours but the game definitely takes off once you can get away from that survival tool. Right now I'm working on fueling up my HV - which is also my primary source of crafting due to the MC. The BA is very bare bones - just an armor locker, a solar panel, generator, capacitor, fuel tank and cargo box. i actually tore down the "personal cargo container" earlier in the game and had to place my own Cargo Box replacement -- i didn't expect the game to want me to make that rotting hulk a base - but i'll be damned if i don't try. It's not airtight (and thus offers 0 protection from the elements) but i have installed walls and a door to keep out Mobs. I'm just damn gald the tutorial gave me a survival constructor - i can't imagine the BS trying to make one from the suit constructor.

    For those that have issues finding the new "Small" Resource Rocks - they mean "very" small - like you can't see them at 50m on a bike - you have to walk to see them almost. Although they are very small caches of resources. I am still running out of food in the long run (most of my time goes to biofuel and drilling and the new plant values are hard to find sufficent amounts to keep myself fed). In any case - it's getting better the further away from that Survival Tool I got - that thing needs to be renamed "Deathtrap Tool" because that's EXACTLY what it is as long as it consumes stamina.

    On a side note: I haven't seen ANY lizard mules - although this is a randomly generated solar system - it's a temperate planet and I would've expected conditions similiar to akua.
     
    #17
  18. Keith Hovey

    Keith Hovey Captain

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    I did a play through too and I gave up and GM'd in an hv for us lol. It wasnt much fun. I used so much stamina I couldnt do much besides run, wait, mine, wait, run, frantically look for food stuffs, wait, eat, wait, run a bit, wait, mine a few rocks, wait, run some more, wait some more, find myself freezing to death draining stamina and hp... Die from starvation. I feel like the devs are trolling back a little for all the questions regarding 8.0 lol. Was a good laugh for me and the missus :)

    I do enjoy the idea of the suit and a pretty slim start. That was cool.

    The tent seemed really out of place though. I could sleep in it... Helped me not with freezing to death! Seems like i should be able to sit in there with a book and pass some time / stay warm lol.

    The little rocks... OMG you can hardly see those things. I thought the idea of mining the big rocks and getting random ores from em worked out well enough... Why the tiny pebbles of ore? Its a cool idea... But in practice it was a bit annoying.

    I didnt see any "survival mechanics" in play this time around really. Just a lot of artificial feeling obstacles. Im not sure holding a weapon that shoots a laser would use a lot of stamina. Using a jackhammer maybe. The drill, possibly. But gawd that initial gun is a doomsday devices of torture!

    Forget walking around on planet. The resources are so spread out that a motorbike is a MUST have to survive. I found that once I had that I had an easier time surviving. Without it... Ewww.

    Just my experience so far :) Will make another pass at it tomorrow with fresh eyes.
     
    #18
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
  19. JuStX2

    JuStX2 Captain

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    I got lucky i guess - after breaking some ores on the outskirts of the "StarterBiome" I got enough ore to build a drill - and never looked back :p
     
    #19
  20. JuStX2

    JuStX2 Captain

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    I /think/ the system where it drains stamina is temporary - but it is highly annoying - as I often use Stamina for running as it is - not to mention the fact that being low on food drains stam which in turn drains food (i-loop unless you heal manaually - which brings me to the point of bandages no longer restoring their health :/)
     
    #20
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