Alpha 8.7.1: Back to Unity 2017

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by EleonGameStudios, Oct 31, 2018.

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  1. mR_kAt

    mR_kAt Captain

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    Plants starting "shifting" underground as you harvested it even before the DSL patch. :/ This bug has been around since they added the survival tool.
     
    #81
  2. mR_kAt

    mR_kAt Captain

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    "Cool Looks" never sell a game long term, it only allows for a quick cash grab. Just look at the reboot of Master of Orion. All that money towards AAA voice actors and animations but the game was largely a failure because the building blocks of the game wasn't worked on FIRST. Only after the fact did they realize their error but it was too late to go back.

    Don't make the same mistake Eleon.
     
    #82
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  3. mR_kAt

    mR_kAt Captain

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    To be honest, I really enjoy the game more with the older versions of it (version 3.x) and the like. I often use steamdb to download the old versions of the game because I can still have fun in them. All of these changes have taken the survival aspect out of the game and made it more into a MMORPG/PvP hybrid sort of game. Before, you had to ration items like bullets and resources. Fauna wasn't everywhere in older versions, giving you a need to explore places. In older builds you HAD to travel to other planets to make certain medicines and food, now you don't even need to leave your own base.

    I also miss the interaction with items in each base. You had to move to your fridge or cargo box if you wanted to get an item. Now you just hit a master key and everything is available to you. I miss lights on guns and deployable generators. All of these things added immersion to the game. The newer patches add things that detract from immersion (like hitpoint bars). Resident Evil 1 (one of your classic survival games) never had HP bars, and you had to ration everything. You had to plan before you did everything. Do you use this clip of ammo to kill an enemy and risk my own health in the chance to get something new to help me, or do I save it for later (when I really might need it).

    Those everyday choices are what define a survival game. If you give players tons of everything, you by nature make it fool proof to survive. There is no challenge then and the game gets stale and boring. There is a very fine line you need to walk (balance wise) when making survival games.

    Right now, I think the focus is too much on Unity engines and pretty graphics and features. Fix the physics and base features (the bones of the game) before you add the flesh (like animations and such) so you don't have to keep updating the pretty stuff when you update the foundation of the game.

    It's sort of like building a house. You lay the foundation first before building walls and a roof because if the foundation changes, you have to redo all of the walls and ceiling all over again. I think this is how you have gotten way over your head with things like this DSL. The DSL should have been worked on at the BEGINNING not now. Now you are running into all of these problems because of all the features you have added increase the likelihood of bugs 100 fold.

    I really hope you guys do a quick play through of 3.x for newer staff members and discuss the items that were removed and changed from the older builds. It may turn out the system you used back then was much simpler and better (like the old fuel system in my opinion). Just my 2c as always. I really want to see this game succeed because I could see how great it was before and loved the direction it was going in early on. I feel that I have gotten my money's worth with 3.x and have been very happy with that product and will continue to play it with my friends for a long time to come.
     
    #83
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  4. Arrclyde

    Arrclyde Rear Admiral

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    That is what i was saying "is what people are expecting to work". What i am talking is to get new people to get interested in. Existing players are all good and fine, and the longer they play the game the better the quality looks. But they don't bring in any new cash, and the sales do seem to get less lately. But to make the game work and look better and speed things up, more people are needed. And more people cost more money which only comes in with more games sold. But to sell more games with generic standart looks without a visual highlight and USP (unique selling point) it is pretty hard.
    You can't just look at yourself and think people like the same things (playing older versions) especially when they can't just click to choose which version to download. That is not how most people buy and play games. That is not how it works.
    And i actually never said they need to focus on the looks only. But they should start to give more love to the looks (unique models, games visual identity, animations, customizations), thats what i am saying.
     
    #84
  5. Damocles

    Damocles Captain

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    Maybe its time to make a "final" version 8, with some nice features, and then go to a longer time off to build the game ground up for version 9.
    7DTD kind of did that in their recent alpha. This new version changed a lot of features, game mechanics, ai and contents. Also took almost 1.5 years ...

    At one point iterating on the existing codebase will halt progress. Then some time is needed to take it apart and put it back together anew.
     
    #85
  6. mR_kAt

    mR_kAt Captain

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    Gameplay and word of mouth (not graphics) has better served games in the new "Early Access" model that steam has invented. Kerbal Space Program is a good example of this... no fancy graphics just solid physics and that was enough to sell tons of copies and ensure a solid interactive fanbase with a new franchise. So much in fact that mods were the lifeblood of the game.

    Right now, too much focus has been on graphics (to the point where the colors are an eye sore... heck I liked Empyrion's UI colors back before they made them look like a Windows 10 app).

    It's fine in retail to hype the graphics but if the game play is not up to spec, gamers are much wiser now and more jaded. If they see that the gameplay is largely broken, they will ask for a refund asap from steam and not even bother keeping the game. They are wise to cash grabs now with pretty graphics. Most gamers know that graphics are the easiest asset to fund in video game development cycles. If you are looking for a real gem of a game, look to the gameplay. Stardew Valley is a prime example of this. It uses old 16 bit retro graphics but the game play is addicting as hell (and the challenge and learning curve is steep too) and as such, it has become a run away hit with TONS of sales with so little overhead in making the game. Heck, only ONE developer worked on the project.

    Civilization made mistakes in a different matter... Civ IV and V were major hits due to the gameplay not graphics nor simplicity. The learning curve is high for that game (along with Kerbal Space Program). Civ VI dumbed down lots of the challenging gameplay (made pretty graphics, cut screens and hyped the hell out of the game) and made the game simpler. The player's reactions were hugely negative and it turned out to be a flop. More people play Civ V or IV to this day than they do VI.

    I really think the days of AAA games full of hype and mega graphics are at an end for the most part. Steam and GOG has leveled the playing field by offering cheaper alternatives with indie games with much better gameplay. The consumer has adapted and learned that there is greater and better things out there in smaller packages.

    The same parallel goes for movies and Netflix (or whatever streaming service you desire) to some extent. People don't like the same predictable American movies anymore. They want their mind challenged with new plot twists and genres. International films are now becoming mainstream.

    To sum things up... I really think a new game should crowd fund to get enough money to work (and finish) the foundation of the game. Later, if they wish to add more players without them quitting due to massive foundation problems, you can work on the features that are BASED upon the base physics and foundation. Don't expect to crowd fund a game with an idea, not work on the foundation, and stray from the game's selling point (or genre), then expect new players to bail you out with subscriptions on Steam to build the foundation, physics and concept later. So many games have gone that route and died at the wayside.

    You should already have a clear development map of what you want the game to be, what to focus on and in what order. If you don't, you are just winging it without a solid safety net to fall back on.

    Is Empyrion a survival game like advertised? Is it a MMORPG? Is it a FPS PvP game? I don't think Eleon has really assured us of late what direction they plan to branch out to.

    And please, as a member of the community, pitch new ideas you plan to add to the game BEFORE adding it. You can get valuable feedback and may find out it is a horrible idea before hand. This will save you lots of money and development time. It in the end however, stick to your development plan for features you already have planned from Day 1. Don't let the forums sway your concept of your game... but if you have some NEW idea that wasn't planned from the start, feel free to use the community. That's what we are here for. :3
     
    #86
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
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  7. CaptRiker

    CaptRiker Ensign

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    i really would like to see a more smooth engine.. junk unity. with shadows/ssao/anti everything turned off I'm averaging 40-50 fps on a fracking oc'd 2080 ti xc ultra.. talking 2150 mhz gpu oc and memory running near 16 ghz.. monster card and this engine is barely using 50% of this 2080ti.. most times it's closer to 33% on average? and don't even talk frames in an asteroid belt with alot of bases about.. then under 20 fps constantly.
     
    #87
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  8. Andreykl

    Andreykl Commander

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    And what about CPU?
     
    #88
  9. CaptRiker

    CaptRiker Ensign

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    running an oc'd 4.3 ghz 5960x w/32 gig 3200 mhz ripjaws. asus rampage V extreme X99 mobo
    cpu avg's 30-35% util with game.. about the same as gpu util (or at least high corrolation)

    oh yea.. forgot I run at 2560x1440x144 hz gsync lcd.. borderless window mode
     
    #89
  10. Andreykl

    Andreykl Commander

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    Just loaded a creative game and spawned a bunch of ships and while there is some load for all cores I also have overal load of 30-40% with single core being close to 90%.
    With such load it is not exactly unity... game just needs better threading. I suggest to brace yourself for a long wait, since I seriously doubt devs will bother with threading until all major features are in game - decent threading is bothersome to implement and will get affected by any minor physical change, no point wasting time on maintaining it this early.
     
    #90
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  11. mR_kAt

    mR_kAt Captain

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    If the FPS get so bad you can no longer test the game, then they are in for a real ordeal then huh? Like I said earlier, concepts of the game could have been done with a simple graphical model, so testing could continue. Right now things are bottlenecked. Ramping up the graphics and animations should have been the final step of the game, imho.
     
    #91
  12. Andreykl

    Andreykl Commander

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    GPU doesn't seem to be the bottleneck in this case, simpler models won't help. In sandboxes GPU and graphics rarely is the bottleneck.
    And simplifying concepts like physics to be simpler then intended by game design is not an option either - how they are supposed to test intended physics engine in such case? They simplified map size instead - we get a single system instead of galaxy.
     
    #92
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  13. Nogitsune

    Nogitsune Rear Admiral

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    I've built custom scnearios with over 300 planets/moons. Whether there's one star or dozen, doesn't make a difference until warp travel is reworked. Map size doesn't make much difference for client performance either, since client is only ever connected to one playfield at a time.
     
    #93
  14. mR_kAt

    mR_kAt Captain

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    You have a point, however, for some reason, the more intense the graphic settings, the more CPU usage. Why? Could be due to several factors but I'd rather them test concepts without all the pretty bells and whistles. I'd take smooth FPS over pretty graphics any day of the week.
     
    #94
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  15. Arrclyde

    Arrclyde Rear Admiral

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    @mR_kAt
    Ok, lets talk about simplified games success and graphics. Instead of those examples i throw in Minecraft. A simple early access titel that sold pretty much double from all the games you mentioned. Sure they have mods making things more complex, but one has to be pretty naive to think most people or even a good portion of those people play with them. And it is a good example of my point "graphics". Not pretty graphics are important. A unique destinct own look. Your kerbal example falls into the same category. Not the shiniest graphic, but minion like kerbals get your game sympathy.
    At this point i am on your side: they don't need to make stock/store models prettier. But they need to invest time in their own graphical identity. That will help a lot too.
    And of course gameplay, content. People need something to do.
     
    #95
  16. Myrmidon

    Myrmidon Rear Admiral

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    Two videos worth viewing, at least if one wants to understand Unity's Updated Terrain System and the New Prefab System are changing in Unity 2018.



     
    #96
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  17. ASTIC

    ASTIC Commander

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    #97
  18. Slipstream

    Slipstream Captain

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    So, here we are, about a month out, and there's... nothing but a rollback out of Unity'18.

    When do we put the nail in the coffin?
     
    #98
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  19. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    I am with you on that BUT..
    Be happy to play they game in the current stage otherwise the next mayor update will definitely break your gameplay;).

    So give the Devs more time. I am sure @Hummel-o-War is currently putting together some teasing stuff for us:D
     
    #99
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  20. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    Stuff is definitely happening, but nothing that's remotely ready for experimental. Complex things take time to implement correctly.
     
    #100
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