Alpha 8 - New Planets & Playfield Tech

Discussion in 'FAQ & Feedback' started by Hummel-o-War, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    uBYxhzq (1).jpg

    New sizes:
    Class 2: 8km x 4km (size in pre-Alpha 8 versions)
    Class 3: 16km x 8km
    Class 4: 32km x 16km
    Class 5: 64km x 32km

    Key Achievements
    • Terrain is procedurally generated again (see SSG docu for more info)
    • Biome distribution is now dependent on temperature and humidity for planets
    • Removed red and green walls
    • Voxel Mining back again
    Changes directly related to new Planets
    • Removed Green and Red curtains. Poles are now freely accessible, but you cannot build there
    • Extended warning ranges for out of orbital playfield warning: SP - 50km, MP - 100km.
    • Increased SV speed on planets from 40m/s to 50m/s
    • Added a list of new planet names (thanks to everyone who contributed)
    • Activated voxel underground resources again: if no distribution type is specified in playfield.yaml, the Voxel resources are used > see starter planet: Iron, Copper, Silicon (Voxel), Promethium (Underground Rock; SSOR like in 7.x). Creators can choose per playfield how they want the ressources to appear: Voxel or SSOR
    • Added and updated underground layers to all planets + added comments on how to use UndergroundLayers in ExamplePlanet yaml
    • Added specific rock resource stones for all resources (except Pentaxid since we already have harvestable crystals)
    • Balanced hitpoints of different underground materials: stone, dirt, sand, snow. Now speed of drilling depends where you drill
    • CrushedStone is now only dropped for stone terrain textures
    • POI can now be spawned by biome
    • Added Planet rotation axis: now you can have eg longer days on northern hemisphere etc
      Supporting now playfield_debug.yaml file for random planets
    • Use planet3d model for the planets in the 3D map for proper UVs.
    • Integrated Spawn Ranges for starter playfield
    • Spawn near values (for POI and resource spawning) are now [ min, max ] ranges
    • Implemented: playfield.yaml: Add 'Zero' as a name for SpawnPOIAvoid to specify POI's not to be spawned near coordinate 0/0
    • Implemented: Random POIs: "Zero" is now "START" and uses the correct center of the Starter Biome
    • Implemented: Random POIs: SpawnPOINear can use "START" as pseudo POI group name to spawn POI's in the starter biome
    • Old Playfields moved to “LegacyPlayfields"

    = DETAILS =

    Random Generation of Solar System and new 3d Sector Map:
    - Each time you start a new game, a new solar system is generated with a different amount of planets and POIs
    - You can control the generation process via a configuration file (number and type of planets, POIs, size of solar system etc) or with the Solar System Generator (SSG)
    [​IMG]
    The above screenshot shows the new 3d sector map of a random solar system

    Procedural Terrain Generation:
    Procedural terrain generation is back - no fixed heightmap planets anymore
    [​IMG]

    More Diverse Biomes:
    Realistic biome distribution based on humidity and temperature:
    [​IMG]

    By changing Temperature, Humidity and the Seed, we obtain a very varied biome distribution:
    [​IMG]


    Fog-of-War (Fow):
    - When you now crash-land on the planet, you will not be able to see the whole planet anymore but only a part of it is revealed on the map
    - When you approach a planet from space and then land on it, the FoW is semi-transparent

    20180612000412_1.jpg

    Underground Layers and Voxel Mining:
    - The 'underground layers' are back. You will have the possibility to set up to 7 different consecutive layers for your planetary playfields
    - In addition, the old Voxel mining is back as well
    [​IMG]
    (depending on the resource, a playfield creator can decide whether to use the Alpha 7-style sub-surface rocks or the pre-Alpha 7 Voxel spheres)

    Removal of Red and Green Wall:
    We finally removed the red pole colliders and the green wall so that you can now cross the poles and you do not have to be afraid anymore when you cross the green wall
    [​IMG]
    In the above screenshot, we are in the far north (actually the sun never sets here) beyond the former red wall and we are looking north. Pre-Alpha 8, this area was blocked. If you continue in this direction you will actually cross the north pole.

    Better Terrain Textures:
    We considerably improved the visuals on a planet by replacing almost all terrain textures
    [​IMG]

    New Decoration Placement and Rendering System:
    We integrated a new system for the placement and rendering of the decoration objects on a planet which allows for a dense vegetation that is rendered very far
    [​IMG]
     
    #1
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  2. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    LARGER PLANETS - Questions & Answers

    == Global Changes ==

    Q: Will the planets that have been made before 8.0 now be unplayable or can we convert them from 7.x to 8.0 version?
    A: Since we completely changed the decoration system, you will need to add the new decorations to the old heightmap planets

    Q: Will the larger planets remain square heightmaps wrapped around cylinders or will they be changed to spherical planets, where you can travel to the north and south poles?
    A: The playfields of any planet are still rectangular maps, but we aim to improve the technical limitations (red and green wall) to a point where you will hardly notice them.

    Q: Are there going to be any changes to performance that I should anticipate (such as more RAM usage, CPU usage, etc) for single player and servers?
    A: The new larger planets themselves will not have a higher performance impact, but we use a lot of NEW shaders for terrain and effects that will need to be optimized in the next updates again.

    == Global Planet-related Topics ==

    Q: Will all planets be the same size?
    A: No. The solar system generator will randomize the planet size (note: The same seed will give you the exact same solar system)

    Q: Is the heightmap limit remaining the same, so the distance from the surface to orbit or down to the core, regardless of the diameter of the planet?
    A: For the moment, we have the same overall maximum playfield height of about 1050m, whereas the maximum terrain height (top of the highest mountain) is 511m.

    Q: Will resource nodes be more spread out on larger planets due to the current limit of nodes we have right now on smaller planets? I.e. If a small planet has a max of 9 Iron deposits on its surface, is a larger planet also going to be capped at 9?
    A: The deposits amount and count can still be set in the .yaml. So it is up to the creator of the playfield. However, we have introduce an automated scaling parameter that takes into account the planet size and scales the amount given in the playfield_static.yaml! Check the EXAMPLEplayfield.yaml for details.

    Q: Will custom terrain files (XMLs and heightmaps) be usable on multiplayer scenarios?
    A: For 8.0 this is not yet possible. However, the new procedural planets can be used for multiplayer scenarios.

    == Gameplay ==

    Q: If planets are larger on the surface, does this also mean the spherical representation of the planet in the space playfield will also be larger?
    A: Yes.

    Q: Will there be quirks such as it is faster to get to the other side of the planet by going to space first?
    A: As long as we do not increase the heightmap of playfields, yes this would be a shortcut. Think of how a rocket nowadays can get faster from point A to B if it goes through space.

    Q: On larger planets, would the solar panel theoretically have a wider "sweet spot" due to a wider area that the sun is hitting? i.e. On a small planet you only have say 500m where you are near the equator, but a large planet could be 2km (providing random numbers)?
    A: Yes

    Q: Will the entire planet share the same weather?
    A: We are currently not planning to change the overall weather system. We might add biome-dependent weather in the future.


    == POI & Dronebase Threats =

    Q: Will there still only be one Drone Base that provides drones for the entire planet, or will there be regional drone bases?
    A: We could increase the number of drone bases to have regional bases in a future update. (Not yet added in A8.0)

    Q: Will drones and transporter have an increased speed factor, reaction agility, larger attack force due to larger planets ?
    A: Yes.

    Q: Will there be more than one Patrol Vehicle per planet?
    A: This is pretty much up to the creator of the playfield.

    Q: Will we see larger POI settlements now with larger flat areas and will it be easier to spawn POIs without a drastic change in drop or climb of terrain
    A: The larger planets will have larger areas of "flat terrain" (Of course this depends on how the playfield creator designs the terrain)


    == Deco & Additions ==

    Q: Will there be more ENTITIES (POIs, RESSOURCES, Drones, animals, enemies, etc.) on the larger planet possible (right now very limited) ?
    A: There is an entity limit for any playfield. This means the amount of NPC, POI, deposits that are on the planet at the same time, is limited. However, we are planning to increase the entity limit per planet in the future.

    Q: Will there be caves, deeper oceans, underwater caverns and large redwood forests with this larger planet update.
    A: This is also a planned feature for the future.

    Q: Can we get few more planet types aka 'I want new additional planet textures'?
    A: Additional terrain textures have already been added. More will be considered in the future.

    Q: Are you planning to introduce different GASES as environmental factors on new planets to make them more diverse & dangerous?
    A: Entirely new planet types are planned for the future, yes!

    Q: Will you introduce "ice" as ore in underground rock form on some barren, desolate or toxic future planets (and in space in asteroids)?
    A: This is also a topic for a future update (more different materials in general)

    == Other ==

    Q: Are there any plans to make the space playfield larger as well to keep it from feeling too crammed together?
    A: Yes, the space playfields are now significantly increased as well (probably more than 100 times the current size)

    Q: Will way-points act any differently? A big planet could have lots of spots marked and really start to fill up your screen. A player might only want to see them within a certain distance, or they might want to hold down a key for a quick check against them.
    A: This is planned for the future.

    Q: Will there be something dynamic between POIs, proper AI vehicles, wildlife migration routes, regular Zirax patrols, anything?
    A: We are currently working on improving the ground AI. Most of the wildlife AND the Zirax got their first updates already. Also Patrol routs were added. Expect more cool stuff and stay tuned for more info on this topic in the near future.

    Q: Will we see a first implementation of a wildlife pecking order, meaning territorial behaviour less randomised, more centralised on certain environmental conditions according to species.
    A: We are currently working on improving the ground AI. Expect some cool stuff and stay tuned for more info on this topic in the near future.
     
    #2
  3. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    NOTE FOR BUILDERS:

    1. For all the new playfield settings and how to use them, check the fully commented versions of
    • playfield_static.yaml
    • playfield_dynamic.yaml
    in the folders
    • +ExampleSpace
    • +ExamplePlanet
    over here > ...\Empyrion - Galactic Survival\Content\Playfields

    2. Also check the SSG Documentation over here: https://empyriononline.com/threads/alpha-8-solar-system-generator.38168/

    CREATIVE MODE is now available in the AKUA-OMICRON Scenario!

    NEW GAME menu > switch to AKUA-OMICRON (top left) > switch mode to CREATIVE
     
    #3
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  4. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    = Known Issues =

    - Performance drop in certain circumstances due to completely new shaders. Send us your feedback over here: [ ]

    =============


    ==
    UPDATE 8.1

    - Reduced size of starter planet from Class 4 to Class 3 and adapted distances of POIs so they are a bit closer to Starter Biome
    - Added mobile heater/cooler to start equipment, slightly increased amount of food and medical items in easy setting
    - Reduced impact of height changes on temperature
    - Added more snowy mountain caps
    - Temperature reduction in GlacierSnow, PolarSnow and Pole biomes.

    ==
     
    #4
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  5. Eredain

    Eredain Ensign

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    What about planet uniqueness... What about make Omicron great again - make them one of start planet. What about all of posted by users in Expiremental 8 topic - all that is the same apply to EXP 8 and Alpha 8? What should I do with my post about planet uniqueness - copy to here, start topic and copy to new topic or maybe do something other.
     
    #5
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  6. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    We'll bring back more starting planets. No worries ;)
     
    #6
  7. MrFubar

    MrFubar Commander

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    I too want to see more starting planets of varying difficulty, some with no oxygen or low temperature like Nigunes, or more enemies like Masperon (though maybe not quiet the enemy swarm hard 6.0 maspereron had)

    I like the new planet sizes, but these huge planets are the same all the way around.

    I would love to see much more variety of planets. The planets need a more varied Climate also. The starter planet for example is temperate which is what earth would be considered but the temperature varies greatly from the equator to the poles, you don't see that on the starter planet it does not become glacier near the poles, you dont really have any climate that makes sense just scattered biomes.

    • I also want planets with very high gravity that might have affect more than just your jump height.
    • Planets that might be barren on the surface but have a lively ecosystem underground in caves or center of the world.
    • Planets that were destroyed by war or nukes or something
    • gas giants, could be used for fuel like
    • planets with rings
    • ocean planets with underwater travel and mobs and structures
    • Planets with continents and varied climate.
    • Lava Planets
    • The Sun, when out in space i want to be able to see the sun, so i can tell the axis of the planet more easily, sure the light shows on one side of the planet but looking around space there is nothing to show where that light is coming from.
    • Planet with floating islands would be cool too, maybe its low gravity or something else going on.
    • You could also have planets with a massive storm like jupiter with its spot the storm would have to affect travel though via ship.
    • Different suns could produce different color light as well and make the pigments of planets off.
    • Planets that are similar climate even two temperate planets should not look the same, Maybe one is earth like, one has giant mushrooms or plants compared to the other and different wildlife, maybe very large dinos or other creatures like pandora.
    • Planet with an alien city, both peaceful and not peacefully each alien species should have its own style of architecture. Even Talon could have a home planet that while low tech has to have more than one village, maybe even a few full on cities. I there are only small villages how did they get to so many different planets.
    • Planet sized space station
    • Planet that is half broken up from collision with moon
    • Space Features like Nebula, black holes or other hazard or places in space you could hide or need to avoid flying through.

    Right now the planet just don't feel very alien with the exception of the radiation zone with the weird shaped terrain with glowing bulbs and stuff, that is the only area i go to that says I am on an alien planet to me.

    You could even have planets overrun with bugs like various movies and games have portrayed with giant hive structures with a maze like tunnels. crisscrossing through them, and a coating of slime or honeycomb or something across the ground or areas they have infested. Something that clearly says you are on an alien world and not the native species.
     
    #7
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  8. MrFubar

    MrFubar Commander

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    Oh also the transition from space back to planet or moon feels off, It feels like it zooms too much as i am about to enter the atmosphere. I felt like i crashed into the surface both entering the planet and the moon on my starter planet, it was really jarring, once it loaded the planet you could clearly see you were in the air and the view from just before did not match up.

    Flying out of the moon towards the planet it also seemed like the planet was getting smaller until i broke atmosphere and then the planet was much larger looking in space then it was from just below the transition point on the moon.
     
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  9. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    And the map also doesn't render what is seen in game quite well, showing the icons on the ground while the player is high above and should see further. The map shows curvature but the "horizon" is shown beyond when flying. I have an example here on a suggestion thread I made to try to solve this "transition" issue:

    https://empyriononline.com/threads/atmosphere-a-world-of-its-own.36732/page-2
     
    #9
  10. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    Well, I believe that
    "Q: Will there be more ENTITIES (POIs, RESSOURCES, Drones, animals, enemies, etc.) on the larger planet possible (right now very limited) ?
    A: There is an entity limit for any playfield. This means the amount of NPC, POI, deposits that are on the planet at the same time, is limited. However, we are planning to increase the entity limit per planet in the future."


    answers my main issue with the larger planets.

    The Issue, if not clear, is that a increased Planet size, up to 64 times, still have almost the same number of Ore Nodes. In 7.x I had up to about 30 to 40 Nodes. A8.x provides 60 at best(Easy-plenty). So, not 10 times or 20 times the number but 0,5 times the number...o_O
     
    #10
  11. MrFubar

    MrFubar Commander

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    I agree, while the ore amounts scale with planet size they need to scale more. I was exploring a class 5 planet for the first time, one of the ones that had zacosium on it, and I had to fly for almost 2 hrs to find a single node of it, and there was 15 on the planet. It was very long and tedious flying, seldom running into anything. Having the detector only reach 1000m doesn't help much either on planets of that size.
     
    #11
  12. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    Use a hv as it has 2500m detector range.
     
    #12
  13. OopsLoops

    OopsLoops Lieutenant

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    Amazing, Wonderful, this word is all. This is a planet. This is an adventure. The ones from the previous version now look like toys to me. Many dangers and unknown things stir up the adventurous spirit, giving us the feeling that there is a planet in the universe. It felt like Empyrion universe that I felt.

    I have not done the first warp yet. I have just arrived at the moon of the first planet.

    The only thing I feel doubt is that it only takes a lot of time to play. I had a hard time getting the resources, which, on the other hand, made me feel like survival. (The sky was very far.) But from these I got the feeling of survival and adventure.

    I just want to say AWESOME!!
     
    #13
  14. Marty

    Marty Commander

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    While standing on Naggar at night. Please check, if it's moon and the light source coming from the moon is synchronized. It seems the light source of the moon shining and the moon itself are in different positions. Like several kilometres away from each other.
     
    #14
  15. Pejman

    Pejman Ensign

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    how do we set ressources spawns to Voxel or SSOR?

    PS : ok i found out, one need to add DistTypeCylinder with the cylinder proportions for SSOR in the playfield static under each ressource one wants as SSOR
     
    #15
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  16. MrFubar

    MrFubar Commander

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    The problem with that is the HV move even slower than HV, dont want to turn a 2 hr orbit into a 3 hr orbit.
    Also when out exploring you don't normally have an HV with you. I use warp capable SV, i would have to build an HV on each planet just for the detector, which isnt feasible. I have an HV on the planet I settled on but i had to scout out planets first to see which one would be best and that was done via SV.

    Even if i had a CV at that time, which I didn't I would not have wanted to land it on the surface, surface flight in a CV cost tons of resources in terms of power and moves slower than an SV and you need a fairly large CV to carry a HV. Flying a CV onto the surface also makes it vulnerable since most of its turrets wont work on the surface the PV or players in sv on a pvp world could take it out.
     
    #16
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  17. Ian Einman

    Ian Einman Captain

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    Yes, this. I like the idea of an HV, and hope they get improvements:
    • You need a CV to transport them but CV's aren't well designed to bring into atmosphere. Most people make planetfall in an SV - but you can't bring an HV because there's no HV-SV docking.
    • They're too slow. Please make it possible to put SV-type jets on them and increase the maximum speed to at least that of an SV, if not even beyond it. If you're really hovering over water or a flat plain, no reason you can't really cruise.
    • They're harder to fight with than an SV. It is far easier to dodge shots from a POI in an SV because you can move in 3 dimensions. I get nailed by POI really easily in an HV. Compensate for this by allowing combat steel on the HV, and increasing the strength of some of the basic parts so HV are more durable than SV.
    • HV turrets are a great idea but don't work that well in many situations. They'll fire at neutral POI, presumably because there's a creature on the other side. Should only fire at light of sight. They also target pretty slowly, and have poor range. A POI can shoot at me many times before my turret even kicks in.
    • HV mounted weapons are too hard to use. If you mount gatling guns or other fixed mount weapons, you can't really point the HV at much of an angle upward in order to shoot at drones, you have to manually control a turret (or let the turret do it automatically). A booster should let you angle up at least 30 degrees so you can make those shots.
    • They can have control issues. They can get waterlogged and get stuck in those scraggly tundra trees. SV's are much easier to get unstuck. (The water issue may have been recently improved.)
     
    #17
  18. Khyber

    Khyber Lieutenant

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    I love the new larger planets, and the fact that you are encouraged to use HV's to explore with the detector, and the fact that HV's can now carry medical bays and cloning chambers makes them have a shot at being considered for POI raiding.
    However there are a few issues that crop up that dissuade that idea.
    -First as was mentioned, HV's really take a beating when going against POIs, would be nice for them to get a combat steel upgrade similar to CVs. - Second I've noticed that i can't get my turrets to ONLY target the POI turrets, if i set the setting to turrets only and nothing else checked, it doesn't fire..i have to list "Alien" or "Other faction" and then also "turret", but even then it appears the weapons will often shoot at drones/creatures and/or the core of the building, instead of surgically taking out the defense system like i can do when flying a SV. I play co-op a lot, so we've tired the idea of one person driving while the other mans the turret, but even that falls short because on a SV, you can fire 4 rockets at once, where you can only manually fire 1 per person using the turrets. I'd love if there was a way of setting up a slave system with the turrets, so you could control one, and whatever it was targeting, all other turrets assigned to it would try and shot that same target if possible (even if it wouldn't be as accurate as the main shot, just getting the rockets going close to where you want them would be a big improvement, and encourage the 2 player HV assault play style more)
    -Third, with the larger planets and longer travel times the trip TO places can sometimes get a bit boring. I don't want to increase the speed of HVs as that again just makes the planets feel smaller, which defeats the purpose of making them bigger in the first place. For me a nice compromise would be to allow the harvester module to collect plants (grain, mushrooms, vegetables etc), as that provides Something for you to do to break up the journey. When first starting out you are running around on foot/bike to get to places and often can make the short detour to grab the local wildlife. However once you get into a HV it often feels more cumbersome having to stop the HV get out of the cockpit (which depending on placement also requires opening a door/ramp) grab the plant, hop back in, rise back in the air...and by that point it's no longer worth the small gain of a single plant. But if you could steer over a bit to make sure it hits the harvester, you can have the mini-game of collecting them on the way to your destination without feeling like you are just making the trip that much longer.
     
    #18
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  19. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    ==
    UPDATE 8.1

    - Reduced size of starter planet from Class 4 to Class 3 and adapted distances of POIs so they are a bit closer to Starter Biome
    - Added mobile heater/cooler to start equipment, slightly increased amount of food and medical items in easy setting
    - Reduced impact of height changes on temperature
    - Added more snowy mountain caps
    - Temperature reduction in GlacierSnow, PolarSnow and Pole biomes.

    ==
     
    #19
  20. EstebanLB01

    EstebanLB01 Lieutenant

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    Is it possible to have dynamic gravity value and atmospheric density (affecting vessel speed and weapon range) according to height? Be it either using a function or predetermined values in a number of layers, according to planet size

    Something like this (taking SV speed limits as an example)

    [​IMG]
     
    #20

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