Alpha 9.1: Bug Fixes and Improvements

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by EleonGameStudios, Jan 9, 2019.

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  1. Philipp

    Philipp Captain

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    Do you have plans for a option to deactivate the new logistics system to something like the old one?
    For me, the volume/weight system sounds much more interesting than the logistics system.
     
    #21
  2. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    No, this is not planned as the Logistic System will be needed to be able to play with mass/volume enabled.
     
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  3. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    Uhm... forgive me this silly sounding question:rolleyes:...but how would you think would moving volume/mass work without a Logistic system in Place? Hands on again?
    Volume/mass has changed all the standards for Production-Units. Stepping back towards the Old system? That would mean having A8.x PLUS A9.x alive all the time and 2 different Systems in the same game.
    It is like you keep the option of having a Diesel Engine handy for Your E-Caro_O
     
    #23
  4. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    You beat me me..:D
     
    #24
  5. Philipp

    Philipp Captain

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    okay i did not thought about that :D

    I'm just still missing the old system, but maybe i get into the new one by the time.
     
    #25
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  6. Javarox87

    Javarox87 Commander

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    Loving the patch! My wrap around cargo hall is looking good with the textures options. Volume and Weight is a great mechanic, but there is still a hard point in the beginning game with players working out of the survival constructor.

    I'm pushing for them to take the baby step of an HV first with a small constructor and 1500 volume cargo before building a base as the WiFi is not build-able in the survival constructor. Before it becomes default, the survival constructor should be trimmed of anything that cannot fit in a player's inventory. This would emphasize taking the step of building an HV first and maybe the small constructors should have the ability to be the construction point of a first base.

    Overall the improvements of 9.1 and the V/W re-balance makes Alpha 9 feel more complete.

    *Now getting more into the end game with multiple vehicles, the Logistic system is for sure a quality of life improvement. Only using my backpack for my weapons and handy medical items now.
     
    #26
  7. IronCartographer

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    As per the top post, the logistic system has more planned improvements, so those should help. Most notably, I think, they will probably improve the logic of the Connected Toolbar and Inventory, so that it allows more convenient transfer of items to/from non-logistics-enabled boxes.

    Currently the left is your suit inventory even when using the Connected Toolbar, so moving large things to/from non-logistic-enabled boxes requires you to switch (the left side) from suit to another box every time you hit F over something like a loot box, autominer, etc. Edit: Or awkwardly using the connected toolbar for inventory transfer from the loot box which requires clicking and dragging instead of shift-click...! :confused:

    tl;dr: Hopefully soon, loot on the right, "your" inventory (connected or personal as desired/required) on the left for convenience...every time. :)
     
    #27
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  8. Philipp

    Philipp Captain

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    i know this system is still under development, but i still can't get the idea behind that system. For me the system like it was before was good, but maybe others felt that they should change something.
    Connecting containers to my inventory or whatever feels for me like i can walk around and loot or grind everything and just need to change the containers from time to time.
    I can understand that it would make things easier if you have multiple large constructors that get their ressource all from the same container, but for me it takes longer to manage my ressources now than it was before.
     
    #28
  9. Ian Einman

    Ian Einman Captain

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    I think the system is OK but I am not sure if Eleon has recognized the reasons for the complaints, and how it can be fixed in a way that might make everyone happy.

    The logistic system doesn't need to be disabled or scrapped to fix the usability problems some people have with it:
    • If you put limited internal storage back into constructors, food processors, etc. and just make the internal storage also be treated like a cargo box, then things can work as before, you can just dump ore in a constructor and make stuff, easy. The learning curve is lower but the power of logistics is still there. By default constructors target their own internal storage. But you can switch them to another cargo box, and would need to do that to queue up larger amounts of stuff.
    • The UI is still clunky in some ways. Being able to pick up and rearrange inventory in the logistics view, while the constructor/food processor is working, would help a lot (right now it is locked and you must switch to another view to do that). You shouldn't need to use different screens to tell a constructor what to build, and to take items in/out of the constructor, it should be possible to do from one unified view.
    • The new logistics system, combined with volume limits, makes the new "meta" to dump everything in one giant cargo controller rather than having a bunch of separate boxes. This clutter introduces a strong need for being able to organize the cargo, search for items more easily, and so forth. But that isn't there yet.
    • Being able to specify multiple inputs would help a lot with this organization problem. I am surprised this wasn't done from the start, because I'm sure it isn't as easy to add on later.
    • I still think it would be better if instead of having cargo extension blocks, the max volume for a base/vessel was just a pooled value based on the size of the ship (or solid blocks in it). If you did this, in addition to reintroducing limited internal storage of constructors, you would be able to introduce both logistics and mass/volume without requiring a total redesign of every blueprint in the workshop.
    • At this point, with texturable and shapable cargo extension blocks, it is possible to replace floors/walls with cargo extension blocks, giving a lot of cargo space. And surely everyone will now do this as part of design. But why require it, instead of just assuming all solid blocks inherently have space for wiring, piping, and cargo in them already? You do not require people to lay down piping, wiring, ventilation, or conveyor belts. Why must cargo extension blocks be placed manually instead of just adding up the total wall volume and giving people cargo space proportional to that? It seems inconsistent with the design philosophy of other aspects of Empyrion, which has generally preferred simplicity over realism.
    I don't think these changes would make the new system less effective or powerful, nor would they mess up game balance. They would just make it easier to use, and not require a total overhaul of every single design. Requiring redesigns is going to happen sometimes (the thrusters and RCS are not balanced well and I can't imagine they won't be revisited), but invalidating all blueprints is a dramatic enough thing to do that it shouldn't be done often or people will become frustrated that they spent 150 hours on a ship that is now useless, or that the workshop is full of designs that aren't practically useful.
     
    #29
  10. Ian Einman

    Ian Einman Captain

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    Agree on most points but your comment about looting raises another issue I am not sure has been brought up.

    Because it is not realistic that you can walk around carrying hundreds of tons of stuff, they have implemented a logistics system with wifi and all that. This makes sense for stuff like mining, because honestly you're not going to load ore into your backpack, it makes sense that you'd program a drone to haul it back to the HV or whatever. It makes sense for construction as a way to explain how you can design and build a ship or base without having a thousand steel blocks in your backpack. It is not a bad system (though it can be improved, see above for many such ideas).

    But when looting, the new system has made things far too easy. You can raid a POI with basically unlimited ammo and loot it completely without going back to your ship. How is that happening? Shouldn't you have to core it first, possibly set up a wifi to the POI, before you can do that?

    Oddly enough, the new system seems to support virtually unlimited personal inventory even in a hostile area, at least before you were limited by stack sizes and whatnot.

    I know that you could connect to, and loot, wreckage without even touching it in 9.0 (they may have already fixed that). But for POI raiding isn't the new system still unbalanced?
     
    #30
  11. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    Gents! Please move those Posts to the Suggestion Area. Please!
     
    #31
  12. Ian Einman

    Ian Einman Captain

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    How do you switch on night vision while flying a vessel now? Or was that never supposed to be supported? (It should possibly be a ship device instead.)
     
    #32
  13. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    hit "L" twice

    First L switches Spots on - if available
    Second L switches Spots OFF and Night Vision on
     
    #33
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  14. IronCartographer

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    Yeah.. when you're in third person with presumably a console-based exterior view and a deeply armored pilot seat it doesn't make much sense for night vision to be a pocket device. Although there are bigger issues with Empyrion's oldschool NV... :p
     
    #34
  15. CaptRiker

    CaptRiker Lieutenant

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    Devs, can u please.. PRETTY please add a check box option when you create a single player/co-op game to be able to have deposits/asteriods regen.. and one checkbox for poi's to regen plzplz? been wanting this for AGES :) happy new year!
     
    #35
  16. Philipp

    Philipp Captain

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    Why has a game always have to be realistic? How can a hero in diablo 2 carry all that stuff and still fight?
    I think its much more unrealistic that you can log your container via wifi and immediatly add ressources to it, even if your ship or whatever is far away.
    If they want it realistic and just like you said by sending drones with the ressources to the hv, wouldn't a poi maybe attack those drones?
    I think the system before was much better, who cares if it is realistic that you could carry tons of ores, when you could also build space ships, bases and every vessel you could think of as a single person. Wouldn't that be unrealistic, too?
    Comeone it's a game, and i think fun is much more important than realism.
     
    #36
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  17. IronCartographer

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    This is why volume is and will remain optional. Stack sizes have a similar effect, and can even be modded higher if you want to go the other direction. ;)

    Certainly with volume disabled cargo containers are hilarious in 9.x with so many slots... :p

    I'm not complaining. Managing so many separate containers (pre-9.0) for different items is just a bother. Funny thing is now everyone expects to store as much as possible in a single container so the new slot count feels like an arbitrary limit (which, with volume enabled, slot counts pretty honestly are arbitrary and conflicting in design).
     
    #37
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  18. C Sell

    C Sell Ensign

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    I’m new to the game and absolutely love it.

    Question though, I had a bug with the trading station not appearing. So I need to start a new game or do these bug fix existing saves? I’d be bummed but I would really like to have the trading station to visit if not at least once.
     
    #38
  19. Ravis

    Ravis Commander

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    I thinkt the orbit trade station not showing in intended now. I believe you may wish to look into some of the faction missions though. (Hint hint)
     
    #39
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  20. Ian Einman

    Ian Einman Captain

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    I am not personally saying it needs to be "realistic", I actually preferred just having a slot count. But to your point, in Diablo 2 you can't carry around that much stuff, because most things do not stack, things take up different numbers of slots depending on size, so you have to pick and choose the loot to carry and go back to town to sell it often. And in Empyrion 8, sometimes you had to pick and choose as well. Now, in the new logistics system, since you can make loot go right into a container of a vehicle you can potentially collect unlimited loot without ever leaving. Since I thought their goal was to make things more "balanced" this just seems inconsistent with that, it is all I was pointing out.
     
    #40
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