Alpha 9.3: Bug Fixes and Improvements - Part III

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by EleonGameStudios, Jan 29, 2019.

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  1. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    I have a query regarding CV Turrets...

    My Turrets are constantly burning ammo attacking Ice Golems and the like yet "Predators" are not checked in the Turret Targetting options - I'd assume the player-hostile Golems fall into the "Predator" category.

    While this is likely a bug, I do feel that additional clarity is required on the targetting parameters. I.e. we'd have "Main" targetting group as now, but the other targetting options would be within that group. So, we could, for example, choose to target the Turrets on a Base but not those on an HV. Or allow our Sentries to open up on hostile Critters, but not on hostile Troops. Or say shoot this factions turrets but not that factions...if you see what I'm getting at.

    Basically, more targetting refinement is needed. This often causes me problems in single player, so it must be a pain for those in MP having guns blaze away at a relatively harmless critter rather than target the Squad of players approaching.

    Things have improved vastly with turrets over the numerous update of course, but they're still not quite where they need to be. I'd suggest that targetting per "faction" - with predator and prey critters being their own separate factions - as well as Player faction(s), Zirax and Polaris being separate.

    For example, if I want to make friends with a Faction, I'd LOVE to have my turrets able to target hostile critters, while ignoring hostile members of the faction I want peace with. Being able to refine the targetting parameters per group (faction) would be a perfect way to do this. Sure, it might clutter the GUI a bit more, but fine control is important.

    Per my specific issue above, the only way I could stop my turrets spamming fire on the zero threat Ice Golems, was to turn the turrets off entirely, leaving me vulnerable to the odd patrolling Drone. While, as I assumed, this is likely a glitch, it does make me wish for more refinement when it come to targetting options.

    In essence I want to be able to tune my targetting parameters on two levels, firstly by Faction, which we almost have now, but down to individual factions, not grouping all players and all NPC factions (Zirax and Polaris) together, though Predator / Prey "Factions" are ok. Secondly to allow for greater turret refinement. I.e. My Minigun turrets have a go at everything my Sentries only "soft" targets like critters and troops, my Rocket Turrets taking out other Turrets, my Plasma Turrets trying to bore through the hull to hit the Generator and Warp Drive etc. etc. However the player chooses.

    Scoob.
     
    #41
  2. jlego

    jlego Commander

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    Another example are Alien Insects, which are the current bane of our (mine and @elmo) lives when playing the game. They attack vessels even when nobody is in them, but they're classified as Prey, meaning we can't set sentry turrets for them without wasting ammo on harmless mobs. We've declared them KoS, and we run out to kill them when we hear them, rather than risk them making holes in everything.
     
    #42
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  3. mR_kAt

    mR_kAt Captain

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    I guess there is no fix for it yet...

    @Hummel-o-War Are there plans to make the Hitpoint/Level bar able to be toggled and off or is this "bar" here to stay? I'm just asking because I don't want to waste anyone's time by asking over and over again.
     
    #43
  4. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Yeah. I think first a pass to ensure that all Critters are in the correct category is a must, then the targetting options can be refined further. I LOVE the variety of hostiles and potential hostiles, but the frustration of getting my turrets to do what I want is real lol.

    On another note: Is it a known issue that the "Alien Scorpion" has severe hit-box issues? They're a major problem to hit, which is serious considering that they are a substantial threat to a player on foot. I can only hit them it I aim directly for their head, body and leg shots do nothing. Additionally, even when I do hit them, they rarely show the hit-point bar for me.

    Note: shooting them from behind works, but only if I'm aiming at their head through their body, so to speak. So, whatever angle they are at relative to me, a head shot is the only way to go. This particular critter is causing me a few problems currently...it's scary enough when the hit box isn't broken!

    Edit: regarding @mR_kAt's request, yes please! :)

    Edit 2: Also, another things that's getting really annoying at the moment are melee attackers hitting you from long range. This keeps happening to me, just now with a "Nightmare" that hit me despite me jet-pack jumping a good 10+ metres away. It seems that if we're near a melee attacker when they start their attack animation we get "hit" even if we're a long way away once the actual attack is complete. I just got the status's "Alien Parasite", "Too hot" and "Heat Stroke" applied instantly to my character, while I was the aforementioned 10+ metres away. I admit, I bring up the Item Menu right away when issues like this occur now, as they're too frequent. Hopefully this can be looked into, as I have reported it in prior game versions.

    I think sometimes there's a weird delay or lag issue going on. I mean, I can literally count 1, 2, 3 seconds while jet-pack jumping away, me being as far as 30 metres away by the 3 count, yet I still suddenly get "hit" at this distance - all from a melee attack which should, at most, have a two metre attack range. Frustrating.

    Scoob.
     
    #44
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  5. vscuorzo

    vscuorzo Commander

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    I like this idea but UI choices will be critical here to keep the added flexibility from irritating people like the logistics changes did. A drop-down for faction and an option to apply settings to all should be ok.
     
    #45
  6. jlego

    jlego Commander

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    Yeah, no kidding. Another annoyance is when the turret aims at the right class of mobs, but they're far outside aggro range, so another waste of ammo. A slider to bring down the maximum range of the turrets to something reasonable would be good.

    I think they've always had hitbox issues of some kind or another (if they're what I'm thinking of - I think they spawn in some Alien bases, like the Abandoned Mine). Haven't encountered them recently, though, and the other arachnids/scorpions don't seem to have the same problem.
     
    #46
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  7. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I'm aware that avoiding UI clutter where possible is essential, as is setting some sensible defaults. My initial thinking was some sort of tree view type thing, where options could be expanded under each Faction perhaps. I've not given it any in-depth thought, though I do find the current implementation frustrating, especially with some things being categorised wrong, as @jlego mentions.

    Edit: Range would be another great addition. I've suggested it in the past, as many other have no doubt, but actually experienced it for the first time in Space Engineers a couple of months back. Works really well and would love it to come to Empyrion. I don't need my turrets blazing away at something that's not even aware of me yet lol.

    Scoob.
     
    #47
  8. jlego

    jlego Commander

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    I think a simple drop-down would be too inflexible. As an example, I often have HV minigun turrets set to both NPC Factions and Predator, and there'd be no way to select this. But I see what you're saying, there is a danger of having too many options.
     
    #48
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  9. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    I don't mean to come across as a bit of a complainer this evening, but I'm experiencing yet another old issue...

    Enemies are able to walk right through my SV and attack me directly! I'm in an enclosed cockpit - Cockpit 2 FYI - and am flying at ground level. I'm fine with NPC's and critter melee attacking my vessel, but clipping through the Cockpit to damage me directly is a bit silly!

    For the record, I'm playing around this evening. I've dug a passage using my Driller HV to access the lower level of the "Abandoned Mine" POI, as I recalled there were holes, exposing the bedrock in this particular POI. My plan, such as it was, was to enter this lower level in a small SV and gun down any enemies. I did this, however, the critters (Nightmares) here were able to walk through my front-mounted Gatlings and through the Cockpit and various blocks beneath it to get to me directly.

    This is an issue I've reported before, in a much earlier game versions and I've not experienced it for ages. That said, I have put myself in the perfect situation to experience this by playing a little differently this eve lol.

    Scoob.
     
    #49
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  10. IronCartographer

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    It's because of the "Alien" category applying to predator-like creatures. Targeting classifications have indeed gotten better, but never quite took the shape one might hope for. I had a suggestion for how to categorize things a bit better when the UI was changed but it wasn't quite what we ended up with.

    Honestly at this point turret targeting might as well be revisited after a "sensors" update.
     
    #50
  11. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    That's always been a bit of an issue, certain critters falling into the "Alien" category and some not when perhaps they should. Being somewhat OCD, I've be happy if we could refine targeting to the particular class of Zirax we want a turret to shoot lol, but that's a bit over-kill.

    Perhaps some way, via a separate UI, to set up our own, named targetting parameters would be cool? Even if done via a manual file edit initially I'd be down for that. For example, I could create a Targetting List called "Sentry Turrets 01 - Critters", and add to that only a list of hostile Critters. I might create another one containing the various Zirax, and name that "Sentry Turrets 02 - Zirax". Not great examples, but you get my meaning. So, we could create what are essentially Whitelists which, when applied to a turret, tell it what it's allow to target, plus perhaps Blacklists which tell it what not to target.

    These lists could be a one per turret / group deal, but would allow very fine control of targetting parameters. Allowing it to be defined outside the game (text editing initially) but used via a simple drop-down GUI in-game might be a great way to test the feature. Shipping with a few preset options already defined would be cool.

    Just a thought on how to get the fine control I feel we need. Personally, I'd be perfectly happy setting up my own lists in this way to fully customise how my various turrets behave.

    Scoob.
     
    #51
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  12. vscuorzo

    vscuorzo Commander

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    If the UI looked like the current set of checkboxes with one drop-down above them for selecting a faction then you could choose the faction, check some boxes, then choose another faction and repeat. It would probably be best to have global settings that get applied by default and then you could go to each turret to override.
     
    #52
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  13. Philipp

    Philipp Commander

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    same here. I think this is intended, but not sure. In my experience, you get more on the deeper layers (but may be wrong)
     
    #53
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  14. Philipp

    Philipp Commander

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    About the healthbar: meanwhile i like the healthbars, but i currently fight 50% without healthbars and 50% with healthbars, because they often don't get shown when fighting drones with a shotgun (for example) or sometimes when i attack enemies with my hover glider, they don't get shown, too.
     
    #54
  15. jlego

    jlego Commander

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    Ah, sorry, I misunderstood what you meant. That might work.
     
    #55
  16. Thundercraft

    Thundercraft Captain

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    Further feedback on the new "Creepy" (replacement for the Plant Monster), after having encountered one in-game:

    I am very disappointed that, unlike the Plant Monster, the Creepy does not drop any harvestable Sprouts or anything unusual. :( Instead, all it drops is the usual Alien Tooth, Alien Parts and 1 Meat... just like nearly every other creature in the game. How utterly boring!

    (Also, while Alien Tooth has a use in a variety of templates, Alien Parts are nearly useless. Very few templates require Alien Parts. As a consequence, I've ended up with many, many stacks of 50 Alien Parts in my inventory. I acquire Alien Parts faster than I can use them, unlike with Alien Tooth or other ingredients. And there's no way to sell my excess Alien Parts. Further, while Alien Tooth can stack up to 100, Alien Parts can only stack to 50. :()

    Because the Plant Monster is gone, it seems the only way left to obtain Sprouts is to either (a) create them ourselves via the Food Processor, (b) purchase them from an Aunt Mary's NPC gardening vendor, or (c) find them as rare (extremely rare) loot in containers.

    BTW: I found it unsettling in how the Creepy still uses the sound effects of the now obsolete Plant Monster. When I say "unsettling", I mean that the sound effects do not seem to fit the Creepy at all - certainly not fitting for its look and not its behavior, either. Are there plans to replace the sound effects with something more fitting?
     
    #56
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  17. Philipp

    Philipp Commander

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    I like those new creepy's, but i also miss the plant monsters.
    Alien Tooth i also have more than enough, i can only agree with you.
    The fact that they don't drop sprouts is something that i like, because after fighting lots of plant monsters, i always had that much sprouts, that i nearly never needed to buy or craft some by myself (except the ones i didn't got from plant monsters :) )
    maybe they could add them back but make it that they have a smaller chance of dropping sprouts?!
     
    #57
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  18. Thundercraft

    Thundercraft Captain

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    I've finally been able to find a golem. But, after a lot of thorough searching, I can safely say that golems are still too rare - at least on a Temperate planet.

    In the console, I typed in "dm" to enable the Debug Menu. And from the Debug Menu, I clicked on the drop-down menu next to "Spawning" to look at the monsters available to spawn. Interestingly, we see:
    • 33. GolemDesert
    • 34. GolemIce
    • 35. GolemSwamp
    Next, I pressed F9 twice. Then I went to visit the arctic biome near my Temperate planet's north pole. Exploring my entire north pole arctic area and using the Debug Menu's spawnpoint map, I saw lots and lots of Oviraptors, "SlimesWhite", and "CaveWormWhite" (aka, Arachnids). There were a few Ice Golems, but not nearly as many as those other creatures. And finding Ice Golems was complicated by the fact that they only spawn during daylight hours.

    Next, I tried searching Swamp biomes. I explored many, many kilometers of Swamps. However, I never spotted a "GolemSwamp" or Swamp Golem even once. Have the devs even enabled the Swamp Golem on a Temperate planet? Have any other players seen one?

    Finally, I searched my Temperate planet for a Desert biome to see if I could find a "GolemDesert" or Desert Golem. However, I was shocked to discover that there was not any Desert biome on my Temperate planet. And this was in a newly generated Alpha 9.3 game.

    I distinctly remember exploring a Desert biome on my Temperate planet. Indeed, I've been playing an older 9.0 game save that still has Deserts. Did a recent update remove the Desert biome from Temperate planets? Or is it random and my new game save just happened to be generated without one?

    Anyway, I wanted to point out that only the Ice Golem seems to appear on Temperate planets and, even then, it's pretty rare. And, sadly, there are no golems (or virtually any other creatures, for that matter) in Mountain biomes. Mountains are very barren in terms of vegetation, resources and creatures. As such, I just can't imagine a good reason to explore mountainous areas. There's virtually no motivation to do so.

    There's definitely room in the game for both the new Creepy and the old Plant Monster.

    I must not have killed nearly as many Plant Monsters as you. I only rarely went out of my way to specifically hunt Plant Monsters. Instead, I had to make the vast majority of my sprouts at a Food Processor. But then, I did sell the excess Sprouts I had to Aunt Mary's vendors at every opportunity - having them in my vehicle every time I planned to visit NPC vendors. I found selling them to be an almost decent way of earning some credits in early to mid game.

    I did wish that the Sprouts that the Plant Monster dropped had a much higher chance of being the rare ones: Mushrooms, Big Alien Flower and, perhaps, Spice. I do not recall ever seeing a Plant Monster drop any of those, despite looking specifically for them. (This was back when both Mushrooms and Alien Flower were bugged such that they were invisible and, thus, we were unable to harvest Mushrooms or Buds to create our own Sprouts.) Sprout drops were always common ones like Wheat, Corn and Tomato.
     
    #58
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  19. vscuorzo

    vscuorzo Commander

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    I did notice that the sandy looking ground doesn't usually produce rock but even going deeper into what looks like rock wasn't yielding much for me with the hand drill in the experimental branch. Using a mining HV in creative on the stable branch gave me better results though. Not sure if it's the branches being different, the seed, hand drill vs HV, new game vs A9.0 save, etc at this point and haven't had time to experiment.
     
    #59
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  20. stanley bourdon

    stanley bourdon Commander

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    Is this a result of the deposits not being as deep on the starter planet?
     
    #60
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