Alpha 9.5: Armored Cockpits, New Planet, Advanced Game Start

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by EleonGameStudios, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Messages:
    1,775
    Likes Received:
    3,159
    I would love a temperate start planet with no wrecks or neutral POIs. :D Going to add one to my scenario for sure.
     
    #61
    mR_kAt and Wellingtoon like this.
  2. Frigidman

    Frigidman Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,073
    Likes Received:
    9,186
    I've noticed a hit or miss attitude on this since a few builds ago. Sometimes it gets something in its craw during the loading spinner, sometimes not.

    I do know, if EGS (or any game) is the 'first to launch' since a reboot, there is a huge delay as Steam itself is firing up some behind the scenes nonsense to get the game going. So be sure to exclude Steam's background process startup from your tests.
     
    #62
    Needleship likes this.
  3. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,621
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Sure STEAM takes its share of the Time "delay". Did it before A9.5 as well. But before the last patch the "cold Start" time was about 40 sec. from common HD and 25-30 sec from SSD
     
    #63
  4. Frigidman

    Frigidman Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,073
    Likes Received:
    9,186
    Seems hit or miss for me. Sometimes when I launch it, it will sit (almost stuck) on the spinning loader with the light EGS music going on. Other times, it just spins right up and I get the menu. It does seem to happen more often the first time I've launched EGS in the day, than later, but it has happened later during the same reboot session.

    Since this all happens after the EGS screen pops up, its not Steam doin it. Its something else causing the game to chug at the front.
     
    #64
    Germanicus likes this.
  5. Agent0024

    Agent0024 Commander

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    135
    I just took a look at the ocean planet and it looks gorgeous. I just wanted to throw out there that I hope we see some new aquatic flora added as a result very soon. I noticed a lot of the aquatic plants were the same as those in temperate planets. Even this was great to look at, but adding more that are unique to deep water would be fantastic. I assume more underwater fauna will make it's way in soon enough, but I think that may be something of a bigger lift to implement.

    Beautiful work! Thank you!
     
    #65
  6. mR_kAt

    mR_kAt Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    567
    Likes Received:
    706
    I bet I could extract the Talon and Polaris from POI list and reassign anchors for a straight sandbox mode with no tutorial or missions. It would be fun to be due to its sandbox nature.

    Thank your for all of your hard work however, this goes a long way to making things possible.
     
    #66
    Needleship and Wellingtoon like this.
  7. mR_kAt

    mR_kAt Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    567
    Likes Received:
    706
    I'd love to see submarines! :3
     
    #67
  8. Taelyn

    Taelyn Moderator
    Staff Member

    • Developer
    • Moderator
    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Wont be fixed either. Exploids u create with a custom config is up to u. With the base values it works as it should
     
    #68
    Cleff and Wellingtoon like this.
  9. Taelyn

    Taelyn Moderator
    Staff Member

    • Developer
    • Moderator
    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Not everything can be fixed streight away. Nor we answer every bug report. If its Obvious for us we just file it.
    Rest assure if its confirmed by us, then it will be fixed
     
    #69
  10. Taelyn

    Taelyn Moderator
    Staff Member

    • Developer
    • Moderator
    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    4 reasons why we did it,

    1. Real Life = 2 "Cockpits"
    2. Only 1 player can fly a ship anyways in Empyrion
    3. A big SV/HV is mostly a "long" shape = 1 cockpit at front, 1 cockpit at back
    4. If you have no limits, you can use cockpits as special armor protection (hitpoint boost for only the cost of 1 Device)

    And yes point 4 really happened in PvP
     
    #70
    Furious Hellfire likes this.
  11. Taelyn

    Taelyn Moderator
    Staff Member

    • Developer
    • Moderator
    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Sorry A10 isn't about any of those things. Rest assure its something we do want to implent
     
    #71
    Cleff, michaelhartman89 and vscuorzo like this.
  12. Taelyn

    Taelyn Moderator
    Staff Member

    • Developer
    • Moderator
    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    For everyone wondering about the Legacy Cockpits they will see a come back
     
    #72
    ion_storm, GenghisBob, Cleff and 9 others like this.
  13. dpburke2

    dpburke2 Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2017
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    1,460
    What is the possibility that eventually we could passenger seats with artwork that looks similar to controls?

    The place I tend to really go nuts with cockpits is on my CV builds, but mostly because when do a command bridge I really like how the cockpit artwork looks as opposed to any need to have so many cockpits. The artwork of the (open) cockpit works very nicely to make it look like you could have a team controlling the vessel--like a bridge crew. Translation: some of my (open) cockpits are so close that I will admit that there is no real benefit as once one is compromised so too is that cluster, but it is the artwork of the (open) cockpit that works so well for some of the seating. If we just had one or more passenger options that felt like the person seating there might actually be part of the crew working controls....

    As for the armor bit, well, I strongly suspected that could be an issue.
     
    #73
    nexus_absolute and ravien_ff like this.
  14. Inappropriate

    Inappropriate Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    94
    Not to be confrontational but... most of these argument are just plain dumb.
    1. Wrong. Real Life = 1 Cockpit. There may or may not be more then one control interface. In the case of most existing vehicles this is limited by the physical mechanics of the vehicle. You CAN design a car with more then one steering wheel but it is impractical in most use cases and not cost effective. In a futuristic vehicle via computer this would not be an issue.
    2. I can accept this. Unfortunately it contradicts limiting the cockpits to 2.
    3. And why exactly does a SV/HV "mostly" have to have a "long shape"? What if its a flying saucer design? What about a sphere or a cube? What about a ship that looks like -INSERT SHAPE HERE!-??? You seem fixated on this idea that you know best how things should be designed and that you most enforce this knowledge on your entire user base that are clearly less knowledgeable that you are. This is supposedly a game about finding creative solutions to problem (through building creatively) and yet instead of empowering players to be creative, your go to solution is to take options away.
    4. I suspect this is the real reason for this change. Why, oh, why is pvp even enabled before you have your game mechanics firmly nailed down anyway??? Ether way, fix your game mechanics that incentives doing this. On non-space play fields a simplified implementation of drag would mitigate this. Requiring thrusters to be exposed would also help. A proper implementation of CPU would handle this nicely. Even making cockpit explosions do %100000 extra damage to other cockpits would have been better. There are all kinds of ways this could have been handled far more gracefully.
    If this was just a temporary fix that you intend to phase out with a proper fix later that's fine. But communicating your intent would have been helpful.
     
    #74
  15. Taelyn

    Taelyn Moderator
    Staff Member

    • Developer
    • Moderator
    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    That i can ask about if that's possible. Actually a nice suggestion
     
    #75
  16. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    5,142
    Likes Received:
    7,077
    Well, that really depends on how large your ship is. Sure, a lot of smaller craft may have a 2 side-by-side or tandem setup, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't also have redundant/backup controls located elsewhere in the ship (say in/near engineering).

    The number of players that can simultaneously control a ship is irrelevant to the number and locations of control interfaces.

    Or a side-by-side setup at the front and back (2 cockpits in each location) and/or a battle bridge/CIC (for a large frigate-class SV). By the time an SV is the size of a small CV, it shouldn't be forced to use a spacefighter control setup. Plus, in the absence of anything approaching proper aerodynamics, there's no actual design pressure toward needle-like shapes (and even if there were, that still wouldn't apply to designs primarily intended for use in space).

    First of all, internal cockpits should have zero armor and the HP of only a couple of hull blocks. Enclosed cockpits should have armor in between that of standard hull blocks and standard windows, and HP proportional to their largest area. Further, enclosed cockpits should actually cost roughly the equivalent number of hull blocks for their volume, plus the additional materials for their internal structure and computers/electronics (meaning that all enclosed cockpits should have at least 50+ steel plates added to their recipes). Further, cockpits should consume nontrivial CPU and power (since they're supposed to be a control point for the ship, they need to aggregate information for the pilot and render all relevant displays, etc.).

    Let's look at Cockpit 1, and see how we can tweak its stats to make it less attractive to use as armor:
    • recipe:
      • 100 steel plates
      • 20 glass plates
      • 4 computers
      • 8 electronics
      • 10 metal components
      • 8 optical fiber
    • mass: 1 ton
    • power: 20 kW
    • HP: 550
    • explosion damage: 200
    Now we have a device that is substantially less attractive to use as armor: it has less HP for the same area of hull blocks, has almost 3x the mass of the equivalent number of hull blocks, costs substantially more resources than the equivalent volume of hull blocks, draws nontrivial power, and (as per @Inappropriate's suggestion) goes boom when destroyed. All ships will get a bit more expensive and lose a little performance, true, but these changes will only actually cripple ships that have been abusing cockpits as armor.

    EDIT: for the armored version, add 50 hardened steel plates and 25 cobalt alloy to the recipe, for double HP and mass.

    Would these recipe changes make for really expensive enclosed cockpits? Well, yes and no; consider that you get the convenience of a ready-made enclosure as well as an automatic connection to the ship's oxygen system (and consider what you'd have to spend in block volume and resources to create an equivalent cockpit using an open cockpit, blocks/windows, and a ventilator).
     
    #76
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
    GenghisBob likes this.
  17. Taelyn

    Taelyn Moderator
    Staff Member

    • Developer
    • Moderator
    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    I get it that the limit isnt always Welcome by everyone. But u can tweak the config and increase the limits. It's a small thing to do. That's whole reason we export the parameters to the config.

    Before we had limits with no config. U couldn't tweak it your self. Made people complain. We gave an option to tweak it. And still people complain because now they have to edit a config file.

    Where u draw the line? Ofcours we can make it 4 and then someone comes who wants 8 or 10 or 20.

    This limit comes from experience. We have seen first hand the abuse of it. So we picked a number. What looks the best in our eyes.

    Again if u ain't happy with the number either maxblockcount off or simple edit the config. We gave the tools to make your own limits then use them aswell

    We simply cant make everyone happy
     
    #77
    runlykhel, GenghisBob, Cleff and 4 others like this.
  18. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    5,142
    Likes Received:
    7,077
    There are multiple ways to handle abuse of devices like this. One way is to impose arbitrary limitations. Another way is to restore balance in a self-consistent manner (which is what my suggestion was). Ultimately, arbitrary limitations are usually nothing more than a quick fix for an issue with deeper origins (lack of self-consistency is the number one source of the game's balance issues at present). If something is being abused, you should determine why and keep asking why until the root cause(s) are clear, and only then apply the appropriate remedy. That takes more time, yes, but you know that you don't have to do this alone; ask us, the community, for help in diagnosing and solving abuse of mechanics, and we'll quickly come up with a variety of potential solutions.
     
    #78
    Inappropriate and vscuorzo like this.
  19. Taelyn

    Taelyn Moderator
    Staff Member

    • Developer
    • Moderator
    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    We coppyed most of the CPU posts (includeing yours) to the dev who is working on it
    Thats how we will try to balance things out :)

    If u have any more information u want to add feel free to write a PM so i can forward it :)
     
    #79
    vscuorzo likes this.
  20. JTurbo

    JTurbo Commander

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    120
    Return the old cockpit 7 !!!


    c7.jpg
     
    #80

Share This Page