Alpha 9 EXPERIMENTAL - Freedom Mode

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by Hummel-o-War, Dec 15, 2018.

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  1. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    With Alpha 9 EXP2 we added the first draft of the "Freedom Mode".

    As the prospect says, you do not need to care about some mechanics, others are still in place.

    What do you think? What is your expectation playing this mode?
     
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  2. Cluascorp

    Cluascorp Lieutenant

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    Are the plant fiber and protein and other foods not supposed to go away when you pick it? - I could just pick as much as i wanted without anything de-spawning.

    Hey - I think i expected something a little different. I thought i was going to find some POI but planet is all empty, and the map is shown.

    I'm afraid I'm missing the point here? I could just as well go into creative?
     
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  3. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    As "Freedom-Mode" states...UNLIMITED:D
     
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  4. [BB]Drifter

    [BB]Drifter Lieutenant

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    I’m thinking more details would need provided as to what this mode actually encompasses. I like the idea of a “softer” version as I’m more about building and raiding with space travel and little desire for pvp. Sounds like a worthwhile idea. Sure creative is an option but middle ground would be too.
     
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  5. Ian Einman

    Ian Einman Captain

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    I'm not sure there's another mode I personally need, so my feedback should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt. However:
    • I think different people would have different ideas about which mechanics should be OFF. So, it might make sense for this to in fact just ask you which rules you want to apply.
    • Rules that people may want turned on, or off, include:
      • Hunger
      • Mass
      • Volume
      • Temperature
      • Drop items on death
      • Taking damage at all
      • Having unlimited items/resources
    When I've wanted to see something between Survival and Creative, it tends to be that I want to test something I'm building against real enemies. So I want there to be monsters, and also POI.

    I tried freedom mode and I like the fact there were critters. The critters could not hurt me but they were aggressive and would try. I liked this better than creative which is an empty world. However, I explored around and there was no POI.

    What I would like to see for "freedom" might be this:
    • Should be same worlds as Survival
    • Should have monsters and POI (friendly and hostile)
    • Faction standing should be in effect
    • You can't die, but things will chase and try to attack you
    • Your ships and bases CAN take damage
    • No mass/volume/hunger/temperature
    • Unlimited resources
    That mode, I would probably use instead of Creative for building. But this makes me wonder if freedom should really be a mode, or a scenario (or change) to creative.

    Also, of course, what other people want for "freedom" may differ, which is why I suggest allowing people to see a dialog where they can turn on/off some basic rules. That would be "freedom" - play with the rules you want.
     
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  6. Exacute

    Exacute Rear Admiral

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    @the option:
    Seems like a good idea, that can cater to the zone between pure-survival and pure-creative :)

    Having some/multiple of these be slider-toggles in the menu, when you create the game, could be a good idea. Simple on/off settings, or very limited options would be my recommendation, as everything can be tuned, if wanted, by the config files.

    As Ian mentions, what 'freedom' means differs from person to person. Just my first thoughts on the concept :)
     
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  7. elmo

    elmo Captain

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    I like to play easy mode with things like degredation, oxygen and temperature off. I keep food on because I like a base with plants. Don't want unlimited health or resources, logistics or volume/mass. Started to play freedom in coop with @jlego but he got kicked off the server several minutes into play so unable to test properly but if it doesn't have POIs there doesn't seem much point.
     
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  8. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Captain

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    I mentioned this in the update thread but I think this would make a lot more sense if there were options when you were starting your game (or maybe even while in game for some things) so you could tailor the settings to how you want to play.

    This way you could toggle enemy factions, hunger, how much power solar panels return. The list is endless!
     
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  9. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    That might be the reason why it isn't;):D
     
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  10. Zuleica

    Zuleica Rear Admiral

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    I'm confused as to why we need a special game mode for this. We can already set some parameters in survival mode, why not just add the new parameters to those settings when you start a new game? Doing it this way just seems odd to me and overall more restrictive on how someone might want to play...or how they might want to set up their server for MP.
     
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  11. Exacute

    Exacute Rear Admiral

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    To me atleast, it makes sense having three gamemodes:
    -Creative: Nothing is really restricted, you are pretty much a god, doing whatever you want, for testing/building/etc
    -Survival: Full intended experience, you play the game how it is 'intended to be played'
    -Mix mode ('Freedom'): You pick what you want, and don't want, and tailor the experience to what you feel like

    If the game ends up having achievements, this is also a clear definition of when something is supposed to be 'unobtainable' (If anything differs from normal survival of n-difficulty)

    It is (technically) not required, but neither is differing survival from creative - Yet, it is a way to make it clearer what you are doing, less confusing, and more convenient to make a game how you wnat.

    That is how I see it atleast ;)
     
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  12. zztong

    zztong Rear Admiral

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    I don't know what's envisioned for Freedom Mode. I like taking Survival Mode and turning on/off options, and I assume I'm not the intended target for Freedom Mode. If it is intended for a low-hassle game, then I suspect Freedom Mode means Volume off, Mass placed blocks only. I'm surprised it would be unlimited health and unlimited resources.

    I often choose the following in Survival...
    Degradation Speed: Off
    Ore per Deposit: Rich
    Number of Deposits: Plenty
    Auto Miner Depletion: False
    Constructor Craft Speed: Fast
    Blueprint & Repair Speed: Fast
    Block Limit for Certain Devices: False

    ... and I'd like to be able to...
    Split "Blueprint & Repair Speed" into two, so that Blueprint could be "Instant", But Repair "Fast"

    Mostly the idea is to avoid standing around while the game runs. I'm a solo player and when I'm building a blueprint, for instance, there's nothing that's going to mess that up. Why should I go watch a movie while the game churns for an hour?
     
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  13. Andipro

    Andipro Lieutenant

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    For me it makes no sense to introduce a whole new game mode. These new options should be simple and effective selectable in the difficulty settings, as any other mechanic before. So taste of game will be covered for everyone.
     
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  14. Lhetre

    Lhetre Commander

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    I don't see the need for a new mode, we already have the ability to change the difficulty settings, which is very much what I do depending on the time available to play. IMHO more difficulty settings, even if they deactivate achievements, is the way to go.
     
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  15. jlego

    jlego Captain

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    Guessing there'll be more to it in the long run, but right now I can't see any differences between creative and freedom mode. It'd be helpful if we knew what freedom mode was for, because most (all?) of the reasons we've been given for it already exist or will exist as options for survival.

    (And, not to derail the thread, but by "kicked off the server", @elmo means that my system hard-reset, 6th time now. It appears to only be EGS doing this. I've reported it via email.)
     
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  16. Ian Einman

    Ian Einman Captain

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    I think there are valid reasons, which have been stated by others, but I'd summarize as:
    • Survival should be a more "defined" experience, for the purpose of racking up achievements or setting up a MP server and everyone knows what they're getting when it says "survival"
    • Creative is an open sandbox, but a bit too much so - if you want to test a new combat vessel, there's nothing to shoot, there's no plot
    • Freedom mode is like playing survival mode with one or more of the rules turned off - it can appeal to players that want to play through the plot and quests but want a relaxed experience, or as an alternative to creative mode
    So I think a mode between the two makes perfect sense, I am just not sure this is exactly the right mode for everyone.

    I actually like it better than Creative already. But for me, I use Creative only for experimenting with ideas. Most real ships I use were made in Survival. You can't really test stuff for real-life utility in Creative. You have issues like:
    • Is it practical to gather enough materials to build it, at the stage of the game where a ship of that size/capabilities is actually useful? (I've seen too many workshop items that look cool but by the time I can make it in Survival, I've outgrown the need for it.)
    • Does it actually perform effectively in combat? Hard to tell in Creative, there's nothing to fight.
    • Is it actually functional in all the ways you need it to be? One time I designed a cool looking HV in creative; in survival mode I discovered that where I had put the docking pads was causing them to not actually stay locked onto the ship. Never would have happened had I designed it in survival in the first place.
    • Put an engine or power generator too close to a place you need to sit or walk, and not notice that you'd get burned by the heat
    • Not notice that a structure isn't airtight in all places because oxygen doesn't matter
    Now, do we really need a new mode, or can it actually be a variant of Creative? For me, a Creative scenario that just had enemies in it would be great. But as I said above, I think different people have different expectations for it, so maybe having a small dialog that asks you which rules you want would be good.

    You can already turn OFF oxygen consumption, food consumption, and temperature/radiation impact in survival, so it seems like it mainly gives you damage immunity and the item menu.

    Perhaps the ability to turn OFF oxygen/food consumption and temperature effects should be removed from survival (you can set to low, but not off), the settings menu should be re-enabled for Freedom mode, and these should instead be parameters available only in Freedom mode? Same with "ignore block limits for certain devices". If you were going to tie achievements to survival mode, maybe all "game changing" options should only be part of Freedom mode.
     
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  17. runlykhel

    runlykhel Captain

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    Good thoughts; if "off" choices were taken out of survival and added to Freedom mode, Freedom mode would have to have all the same game as Survival, POIs, drones, etc. To be really a freedom game all or most of the effects would have to be togglable or adjustable. It would end up being a whole separate but adjustable game; seems just adding a few more switches to existing Survival game would be more economical.

    Just a thought.:)
     
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  18. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    You could have easily caught the first issue in creative by trying to dock it to a base (there's plenty of basic testing that you can do in creative). And the other two issues are easy enough to catch by watching the interface as you're walking around your creation. It's nice not having status indicators triggering all over the place as you're trying to fix problems . . .

    I tend to agree with this. Survival mode should have little in the way of customization besides difficulty level. Freedom mode should effectively function like a slider between Survival and Creative mode, allowing you to toggle as many of the game's major survival systems as possible.
     
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  19. Damocles

    Damocles Captain

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    Good move to have that third mode (I called it sandbox mode before).

    The mode should cater to the playertype that wants to
    -build
    -fight
    -explore

    But does not want to have
    -to think about physic related design limitation of vehicles
    -restrictions on vehicle devices due to balancing (eg allow any number of turrets, drills, scanners, constructors on any vehicle)
    -weight limits
    -tech progression gating (tech tree)
    -micromanaging the base
    -spend too much time in mining (fast drills)
    -illness mechanics

    I also think that a clear distinction between survival and freedom is needed (not just realized by toggle options), else it makes people playing survival feel like "made the game intentionally harder".
    Archiving something in the survival mode should be only obtainable in that survival mode.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  20. ion_storm

    ion_storm Captain

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    OK, this sounds just like what I asked for months ago....
    At first I was affraid that the mass and volume addition will become a major PITA, but this update just keeps giving!!!
     
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