Alpha Experimental 6.0 - Part IV

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by EleonGameStudios, Apr 25, 2017.

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  1. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    Good point .. I rarely do it but when I am in my Call of duty mode I still try it from time to time.
     
    #801
  2. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    Sigh. . . don't I know it. <pats Physics on the head> There, there, I'm sure everything will be all right soon. . . .
     
    #802
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  3. Daede

    Daede Rear Admiral

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    I just wanna touch on something, here.

    For all the dogging people do of it, NMS is prettier than this game - and by a LOT. The diversity of the fauna in NMS alone makes it look like Empyrion's was done by taking a bunch of plastic toy dinosaurs out of a bag and sprinkling them over a playfield (though I'll admit in recent patches Empyrion has gotten a lot prettier, it still hasn't met the level of visual polish and complexity in NMS (which is to be expected, NMS is a fully released product)).

    /braced for fanboi reaction
     
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  4. Iluminator

    Iluminator Lieutenant

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    NMS ????
     
    #804
  5. Daede

    Daede Rear Admiral

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    No Man's Sky
     
    #805
  6. Iluminator

    Iluminator Lieutenant

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    Thanks ...
     
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  7. Daede

    Daede Rear Admiral

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    Someone touched on this a while back. I've been mulling it over, and the more I think about it, the more I agree:

    Unity is a great platform for prototyping and for getting small projects off the ground in a cheap and efficient manner, but it is one of those 'automagic' game development platforms that tries to do everything for you rather than provide you with a framework to do it yourself. I think whoever said this before hit the nail right on the head. The problem is that Eleon is now forced to either work within the automagic or reinvent the wheel and do certain things themselves.

    Kinda like Kerbal being forced to forego the physics in Unity for direct calls to PhysX itself, because Unity's idea of physics is less than ideal and far too constricted for what they were trying to do. BUT THEY DID THAT. Even a company as absolutely clueless and shitty as SQUAD managed to realize they HAD TO rewrite the physics portion of unity or it JUST WOULD NOT WORK.

    Given the sheer level of ridiculous 'balance' tweaks that are being made that would be rendered obsolete if they moved towards real physics as opposed to the unity-constricted concept of physics, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume Eleon went the "work within the automagic" route, which is going to lead to even more 'balance' tweaks down the road that make even less sense.

    Long and short, if you're gonna keep using unity, get TF out of lazy mode and rewrite the parts that don't work for your game. There's no way you haven't bought the source code rights after taking in 3 - 4 million bucks, so dump the lazy and rewrite the physics hooks. Rewrite the AI and specifically the AI geodata tracking while you're at it, because your AI can see through trees, rocks, walls...
     
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  8. Amun Raa

    Amun Raa Ensign

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    It's a boring and boring and boring game.....etc
     
    #808
  9. Daede

    Daede Rear Admiral

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    And, nobody was arguing that. I couldn't fathom playing any game like this alone, as it would be incredibly lonely, boring and depressing (Empyrion included). Doesn't change the fact that NMS is a LOT prettier than Empyrion, especially when it comes to the overall polish and finish of the fauna. But, again, that's to be expected, as it's a released game and this isn't.
     
    #809
  10. Booyaah

    Booyaah Captain

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    @Daede

    You do realize if they start writing their own physics code, that is most likely a 6 month project I'd guess to get that right? I'm guessing most ppl here that barely have the patience to wait a week or a month are not going to be able to go 6 months without a major update...
     
    #810
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  11. Daede

    Daede Rear Admiral

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    Patience I've got. HAPPY to table this game for 6 months, a year, 2 years, WHATEVER, until they get it rewritten. I'd rather have a properly done product than something people kept slathering "this will have to work, its close enough and within the engine" fixes on top of.

    The complexity of what they want to achieve here requires rewriting these things to maintain balance and entertaining gameplay, and if they don't do it, they're eventually going to end up with a mess of spaghetti code and meatball modules topped with so much 'this was required to make this work within the confines of the engine' parmesean cheese that nobody wants to eat.
     
    #811
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  12. Ranger

    Ranger Rear Admiral

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    I agree there's MORE fauna and flora, and it's more colorful, but far less believable. Comparing the two is... well, NMS has a completely different art style. I didn't care for it. Perhaps it IS prettier. A matter of preference I supppose. The way the game was marketed and sold though, and then released as finished, and nearly a year later they're still patching it regularly and it still lacks a great deal of promised features and functionality. It's kind of like getting mugged by Farrah Faucet. You've been robbed by a really good looking thief.
     
    #812
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  13. Mark74

    Mark74 Ensign

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    Great jobs and great games, you are very good dev.......not like some of the other Early Access......:):):):):):):):):)
     
    #813
  14. Daede

    Daede Rear Admiral

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    I'm almost positive it's Fawcett, but am too lazy to open another tab and check.

    Anyways, yeah I agree with you that it's a piece of shit. Through and through, 100%. I totally disagree with you that it's less believable. I have a hell of a lot less trouble swallowing the possible existence on alien worlds of the alien fauna in NMS than I do swallowing the possibility of a fucking TRICERATOPS in the 24th century on a planet light years from Earth.
     
    #814
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  15. Loch

    Loch Lieutenant

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    I understand the concept of Experimental builds and that nothing is final, even when it gets pushed to the public branch since that is still Alpha. There are over 40 pages so far mostly dedicated to the RCS changes, and if the point of this Experimental stage is to gather feedback, i think it would go a long way if we had more vocal developers instead of a single post near the beginning that basically boiled down to "its working as we expected and may change it some more" instead of having an ongoing discussion about if anyone is being heard or even considered. If they are just going to make their already planned changes with little or no input, what is the purpose of the feedback forums at all?
     
    #815
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  16. Ranger

    Ranger Rear Admiral

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    Im sure you're right, but my damn mobile auto corrects, even with the forum chat box.
     
    #816
  17. Daede

    Daede Rear Admiral

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    Well, this is where you talk with your wallet, reviews and endorsement. Don't buy any more copies of the game (I've bought nine, myself). Write a negative review on Steam sharing your concerns (be sure to delete the droves of fanboi comments, and don't be dissuaded by people downvoting your review because they can't admit to themselves it's time to walk away from a poorly chosen investment on their time. If it's a well-written review and hits the actual problems with the game, I'll upvote it). Un-endorse the game and tell people why you don't endorse it anymore: the second shittiest dev communication in the history of game development (SW:BG was worse, by a LOT) and every indication that they're ignoring majority feedback.

    One thing I've found is that people will ignore a lot until it hits them in the wallet. So, hit them in the wallet. Hard.
     
    #817
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  18. oojimaflip

    oojimaflip Captain

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    Right.On.The.Nail.

    Unity is fine for quick and dirty prototypes and restricted scope games (think 2d), but out of the box it just doesn't cut the mustard if you want to get schwifty with your game design.

    I have absolutely no idea why more people don't use Unreal Engine, it surpasses Unity in every aspect and it's free to develop with, the last time I looked into it Epic get 2% when a project starts making money. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

    edit: I've fiddled with both Unity and Unreal Engine, given a few hours, what I can knock out of UE4 greatly surpasses what I can knock out of Unity, both in terms of raw performance and visual fidelity. UE4 is always installed, I keep tinkering with it, Unity has been purged from my system....
     
    #818
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  19. Daede

    Daede Rear Admiral

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    Especially since Epic was founded by - and still run by - the former Amiga Demo Scene coding stars of "Future Crew". These guys were doing engines before engines existed, with prototype models going back as far as the Amiga 500 - some of which even included rudimentary physics (there was a scene in Panic! that used rudimentary physics, IIRC, and a couple in Second Reality).

    I'd throw money at Epic by the fistful before I'd give Unity a dime.
     
    #819
  20. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    I just looked into it and it's now 5% after the first $3000/quarter. Still, the fact that they give you the entire source to tinker with for free as long as you don't publish anything with it is pretty awesome. I'd been looking into engines a while back, and for some reason had been under the impression that there was an upfront licensing fee for UE4. Well, now I know what I'm doing tonight. . . .

    This is news to me . . . well, that probably just about explains the whole situation we're in then. Sigh.
     
    #820
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