Alpha Experimental 6.6

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by EleonGameStudios, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Captain

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    You're correct: no asteroids around either of them. Just went back to both in SP, build 1194.
     
    #61
  2. groo42

    groo42 Ensign

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    that's a docking issue, your ship was docked to the poi after you removed the core, also why it was floating after you removed the supports under it. a good reason to not put docking pads under your SV or not to remove last block until you move the ship.
    I have noticed this behavior when removing bases and CV's with ships still docked to them also.
     
    #62
  3. Taun Hawk

    Taun Hawk Lieutenant

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    Please add power control to Ventilators. Currently I am not able to control them via a switch/sensor. I have no way to turn on and off oxygen to a room without using the P Menu. Need this to work so a player can control O2/Ventilators using a lever/sensor in a BA_Admin base.
     
    #63
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  4. Kronoss

    Kronoss Captain

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    In single player they hit like a tone of bricks, even the sentry guns can mess up your SV. Have the server admins updated the damage/difficulty? It might need a server restart to adjust the difficulty. Or if you really want a challenge try taking out the bases on foot.
     
    #64
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  5. AndyH

    AndyH Commander

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    Lol. Asking server admins performing extensive benchmark tests during content creation if the admins upped the difficulty for their servers. This is funny. When one legal player PVP styled CV can utterly demolish an equally styled and illegal AI Superdreadnought with 250 alien turrets without losing much of anything, but the same BP is unbeatable with only 35% of that number of player available turrets, you know there is an issue. When a properly built HV can core a half dozen POI's in a rush-n-smash rampage with only minor touch ups, yet the same POI equipped with player turrets may very well cripple the HV, there is an issue. When a properly built SV can dodge AI defense fire all day long and only anti-personnel security guns can hope to actually damage that SV, there is an issue.
     
    #65
  6. Kronoss

    Kronoss Captain

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    Meh, they should separate MP and SP then. I get so tired of MP screwing up the balance of SP. Also how da F do you core a POI? Has your sever even been updated this year??????? The POI structure is now INVULNERABLE except for the turrets and some doors in my SP game. If you want to core a base you have to get out and do it on foot period.
     
    #66
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  7. NOLOS

    NOLOS Lieutenant

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    Здорово выглядит;)
     
    #67
  8. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Lots of things aren't designed to run at 100% for extended periods, but short bursts would be fine. The 90% number was simply an example, you could argue that something cannot possibly give more than 100%, but that last 10% generates more heat/is less efficient, so can only be sustained for a short while. It's a simple matter to build with ample capacity, I just like the idea of say losing one of a pair of Generators in combat having consequences, rather than the one generator happily running at 150% load for all eternity lol. Another example might be a ship pushing the bounds of it's capacity, say it regularly hits 75% load in flight, which is fine. Then however the player takes it into combat and the combination of active Thrusters and active Turrets push it over the 90% level, causing it to burn more fuel. This assumes an actively firing turret uses much more power than one simply on standby though, not sure if that's actually the case.

    I think if more than 100% is ask of a generator, then prioritisation becomes key. Possibly you can set certain systems to shut down temporarily for example. Lots of room to play around and balance this idea.

    Scoob.
     
    #68
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  9. groo42

    groo42 Ensign

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    ok lets break this down a little for you.

    1-- the sentry guns are anti personnel and are hit-scan weapons limited range so of course because of being a hit-scan weapon system it is going to do more potential damage than the ion or laser turrets because those have relatively slow moving projectiles that are easy to dodge. the damage from the sentry turrets is good enough it will do appreciable damage over time but still requires high numbers to be effective. Remember kids more guns = more potential lag and FPS drop.

    2-- game difficulty does not equate challenge in this case, it equates to how easy they are to destroy, now considering that even at highest difficulty it takes 2 salvos of 2 yes total of 4 rockets from a SV to destroy the ion an laser AI turrets, and those do not even have to have direct hits in most cases splash damage is enough. it takes one hit nearby for a plasma or rocket to destroy the AI sentry turrets.

    3-- The AI turrets including the sentry turrets have less hit points at max difficulty than player turrets, this means they are very squishy game wise. they do less damage than any player vehicle weapons.

    4-- the player has access to the hover artillery turret later in game, this turret basically turns the game into how fast can I get to gun range while staying just out of AI turret range destroy the POI core on autofire control, loot and move on. FYI it takes on average 3-10 shots for AI controlled hover based artillery turret to destroy most POI's. some can be taken out in 2.

    5-- after some extensive testing me and others admin/players have found that as AndyH has stated, you can take 2 ships, one a massive cluster of the NPC weapons turrets and one player ship with a hull 2 blocks thick which is ludicrously light by pvp standards and decimate the AI ship with minimal damage, and this is while keeping with vanilla gun limits.

    6-- as for pvp, don't even go there. After some more testing with many ships, builds, weapons groups, and even ignoring gun limits within reason (no floating balls or cubes covered in guns with massive 100k plus block counts) we also found that even when overmatched by massive layers of armor and higher counts of guns, if a person is even slightly prepared you can get away from most fights with minimal damage, and if you do fight it out the fights are long drawn out affairs unless of course you outnumber one side by a good margin, it takes a while to destroy combat armor blocks and if they are layered and spaced even halfway decently your core components are really not that hard to protect.
    one case in point on this was a ship around the 25kt range observing gun limits. 2 layers of reinforced steel hull covering most of the ship, all components separated by walls of reinforced steel front of ship actually 6 layers deep around the forward rocket launchers. faced off against a light pvp build with approximately double plus on guns 4-6 deep combat steel and fully armored core areas, it took an appreciable amount of time to strip the guns off the lighter ship, but at any time unless a lucky shot got through to the warp core the lighter ship could have left, the only way to stop it would have been to physically ram the ship and stop it from reaching a high enough speed before the heavier ship or group of ships was able to break through to destroy core components to stop the ship from moving or warping.

    Basically the AI is not a challenge really unless you limit yourself to tech 1 hand weapons and a chainsaw, and while going Bruce Cambell on the AI and mobs is fun, I do like to occasionally use ship based weapons and do strafing and missle attack runs on poi's and ships.

    and before you say if you want a challenge go to a pvp server, I can reply with a statement that is going to piss off the pvp fanatics.
    if I want mindless pvp where its all a matter of who can figure out the next exploit, who can grief new players the most, or who can build the biggest block of armor with guns, I would play other games, CoD, EVE online.
    I thought this was supposed to be a survival style game? not a pvp slugfest.
     
    #69
  10. NOLOS

    NOLOS Lieutenant

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    Когда добавят щеты или селовые поля?
    и да мне нравятся ионные пушки жалко что их нельзя использовать в чертежах.
     
    #70
  11. groo42

    groo42 Ensign

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    Ok let me address this part lol

    to core a POI is easy, in fact it is laughably so.
    even the "updated" POI's are weak if you pay attention. They all have doors and coverings that are able to be taken out by hand weapons to get to the core, if you want a shortcut on foot pack in explosives, a rocket launcher or plasma cannon. but a shotgun does wonders on doors and catwalk blocks used to block even easier access.

    in all but a few POI's the core is in direct line from one of the doors or a window usually on the bottom floor, the exception are abandoned mine, abandoned factory, p1 fortress, and drone bases to name a few.
    so you can manually aim an artillery turret from a hover at said location and fire a few round killing the POI.
    or for a little more "challenge" you can go in with a SV knock out the turrets on one side, then fire your weapons into the location/door/window.
    meanwhile any spawns will walk into your fire while blasting your way into the core.
    on average once you can make a basic SV and can equip it with at least 2 preferably 4 to 6 miniguns POI's are easy and get easier as you get better weapons.
    so far the best mix without using the rarer components is 2 miniguns and 2 rocket launchers put these on a small reasonably fast SV with a little bit of armor and good maneuvering dodge the weak incoming fire from most of the poi's blow up a few turrets, then blast through to the core.

    And if you know where to shoot from doing them before and from dismantling the poi's even the drone bases, P1 fortress, abandoned factory and mine, ect, are doable this way, point SV or HV weapons at the core location start shooting, stop when core is down.

    I would like some way to randomly place the core in POI's in different locations, or make it a bit more complicated to destroy a POI or base, like require generators, fuel, or something else be taken out along with the core, allow for defensive systems to be active for a short time on reserve power afterwards, have the AI send in a wave of support troops and drones after you breach the core room on a POI, or send in a combined force, troop transports, PV, and drones to try and secure the POI location after it has fallen.
     
    #71
  12. rucky

    rucky Rear Admiral

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    Oh my, again a MP vs SP debate...

    Guys, first, understand that an EASY POI done with 2 or more people can be a HARD one for singleplayer.
    Period.
    I've made special SVs, hardened, extreme manoeverable, additional armor layers to overcome these AI Turrets in SP.
    Yes it's beatable, now I'm at a point that the indoor action is way more challenging (if you don't use micro-sv for that too).

    Second. You need TONS of Ammo to shoot holes in the newer / updated POIs. Yes, there are still some pois out there with "outdated 200 hitpoints blocks (S-Blocks, not the L-Variants!), This is a BUG (or better said still missing update), but you should NOT counter that now with more / heavier turrets (for all)!
    Now if the Base is covered with 2-3 layers of Combat Steel, and the Core buried multilevels deep into the ground (and yes, I know a "few" POIs like that!) then show me how you "easily" de-core it from outside...
    (ofcourse if you already have tons of ammo, you can do that... but for what? Any loot in there you will propably already have at home!!)

    Third. The Drones. Okay, I give you that. These are indeed a joke, a bad one too.
    Even if some Bases - if you have maxed the spawnrate like I have done in my single player game, so even if they spawn 20++ Drones in short order (check my postings in the "What did you do today"-Thread, I've posted a few of these pics there), these are still not a match for any somewhat good pilot.
    So these need better manoeverability and more weapon choices, right.

    This being said, now IF you want to make custom scenarios with custom POIs on uber-hard new planets for your very own server... alright, I'll give you that too.
    Indeed IF you want to add / change weaponry on POIs, you should be allowed to do that.
    But again, this is NOT an overall for anybody request, as single/solo player are sometimes even overstrained with the existing POIs!
     
    #72
  13. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    Thank you for adding the extra texture to the texture gun but does this mean there will be more textures to be added in the future?
    Hopefully one day all the spaces on the texture gun menu will be filled...
     
    #73
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  14. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    You know, if the Zirax learnt to open doors, then go through them while firing we'd all be in trouble... Imagine the AI retreating, regrouping then coming back at you hard while you ponder whether to use explosives or the Shotgun to take out that door...that just opened while you were in your inventory screen lol.

    I've noticed that Zirax troops appear to be a LOT tougher than they were, soaking up hand-held Minigun fire quite impressively. Conversely though, I'm encountering Zirax that are firing sporadically at best, and NEVER at me in my HV/SV any more. I had a Troop Ship drop off three Rocket Zirax who should have ripped my SV apart...however, they didn't fire until I exited the cockpit...

    Generally, when assaulting a POI alone in SP, I have to be in Heavy Armour with all four slots taken by armour boosts. Seems anything less and I can be one-shotted by the Shotgun Zirax if I encounter them, even quite far away. I always wear my Helmet too, assuming I need it on to protect from headshots - though never actually tested if that's the case or not lol.

    So, the AI feels a little inconsistent currently, and certain behaviours have changed. On the one hand I can be one shotted by Shotgun Zirax from a fair range unless in boosted heavy armour. While on the other they're simply not firing as much, and not at vessels. However, they're soaking up fire like never before. Jump in an SV and even the most basic Gatling gun makes short work of them...especially as they don't fire back any more.

    Things are improving in general, though it feels like we've had a "one step back" situation with Zirax not engaging vessels.

    Scoob.
     
    #74
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  15. rucky

    rucky Rear Admiral

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    Yes, this is sadly correct.
    I've encountered that too, enemy Troups (any) won't attack you, when you are sitting in an even open pilot chair.
    I'm in with letting the AI make better manoevers, like (re-)grouping, open/closing doors (YES, CLOSING too, but not the default closing),...
     
    #75
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  16. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    It's a little odd as I was being shot up while sat in my enclosed cockpit by Zirax earlier in 6.x - not sure when things reverted.

    Scoob.
     
    #76
  17. groo42

    groo42 Ensign

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    not really a SP vs MP debate but all but a few POI's in stock configuration take less than 5 minutes to core, less than 10 to clear on foot, in SP and MP, this is solo, BTW, hard settings on SP and MP
    and so far every POI we have on our server is updated, I have not been able to find any non neutral POI's that are made from light steel or small blocks. not saying they are not still in game, but so far I have not come across any after the latest reset and patch

    you can clear most POI's without expending a lot of ammunition, you just have to be smart about it. all without leaving the SV/HV, that's the point.
    Yes I am an admin on a MP server, yes it is A PVE server, and we have been trying to make things challenging for the players, but when you have to resort to what basically amounts to cheats to make the AI competitive and even somewhat a challenge for a single player maybe we all either need to spend more time in RL or the game is getting to easy?

    in response to how would I easily core something like that, then you did not read my posts fully, I said MOST POI's are easily cored, and taken over without much effort., so far the winner on ammunition expended to reach core has been P1 fortress with excess of 150 rounds of HV artillery, the lowest has been defense bases and com center 2-5 depending on type and class of defense POI (1-3)

    even the overgunned P1 fortress is not that hard once you get a decent SV or an artillery HV, after you take out the turrets, it's really a matter of spending the time and ammunition to slowly walk down through the POI taking out spawns and spawners until you reach the core, yes it's faster with a group of 2-3 but it is very doable in medium armor solo.
    I don't even use heavy armor anymore because it makes it even easier.
    I am sorry the AI and it's available weapons/traps needs improved, the availability of cheap and easy leveling needs some type of nerf, you can go from basic starting equipment to level 25 really quickly if your creative, the only real bottlenecks to it are travel and ammunition.

    To sum my posts and replies up, the AI is weak, stupid, undergunned, and slow. yes I know they want to keep it playable by everyone, we have the difficulty settings, make custom POI's, the list of suggestions and excuses are many, but in general if you are relatively calm, don't mind thinking a little about how to do something different to accomplish something, then currently even SP with limited resources and on hard settings is not really difficult.
     
    #77
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  18. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    If you've got an SV with 2-4 gatling guns on it, then you've got ready access to a magnesium deposit, which means you can make dozens of stacks of ammo, which is more than enough to go through multiple layers of combat steel if you just sit on each block for a while; even if the core is multiple floors down, if you happen to know where it is, then you just drill down to it. Since the big POI turrets aren't hitscan, it's decently easy to dodge their shots and grind them down too (the sentry guns are annoying but their continual muzzle flash makes them easy to find and they don't have a lot HP).

    Basically, once a POI is stripped of its turrets, it's only a matter of time before it falls, no matter how it's constructed internally. Giving the AI more defensive options before that happens is the key, and that should really be a combination of more turrets (especially some larger hitscan ones) and AI ships (SVs, small CVs, perhaps let the base spawn an HV or two).
     
    #78
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  19. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    @Tyrax Lightning, @banksman45, @Arrclyde: what you've said is true, and I certainly don't want to force a particular flight style on anyone (it seems I really did get carried away with my flip-and-burn enthusiasm). However, I still think that lowering the thrust/input power ratio for thrusters is the right way to go in order to create better tradeoffs in ship design. At the very least, this should be done for CVs to make it harder for them to match the performance of SVs.

    I agree with your generators idea (suffice to say that the power system needs reworking). I'm not a fan of the thruster spooling idea unless it's restricted to jet engines (which do have that behavior due to their turbines). All rocket thruster designs we know of turn on more or less instantaneously when lit, and I'd much rather see accelerations reduced than introduce a nonlinear acceleration profile. It's pretty simple to make CVs seem lumbering and heavy: turn down their linear and angular accelerations. I definitely agree that there should be no max speed differences between SVs and CVs; making it harder for CVs to achieve the same acceleration as SVs is more than enough to differentiate them performance-wise.
     
    #79
  20. Jacoviz

    Jacoviz Commander

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    I think You're right.
     
    #80

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