Alpha EXPERIMENTAL 8.0 - Part VI: Fog-of-War Feedback

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by EleonGameStudios, May 26, 2018.

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  1. EleonGameStudios

    EleonGameStudios Developer
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    Hi Galactic Survivalists

    Thanks a lot for your feedback about the Fog-of-War (FoW). Regarding the opacity of the FoW, it seems that a part of you favors the current approach with a semi-transparent FoW, while the other part would prefer a fully opaque FoW.

    The pro "semi-transparent FoW" group argues that it is more realistic to see the shape of the planetary terrain since the escape pod has dropped from space and thus the player should have a basic understanding of the terrain. The pro "opaque FoW" group argues that the "mystery of exploration" is lost with a transparent FoW since you already know more-or-less how the whole planet looks like. We understand the arguments of both groups.

    In this test update, we want to give the group who favors a fully opaque FoW the possibility to experience this "mystery of exploration" on a planet where you do not know what lies ahead:
    [​IMG]

    Let us know what you think in the comments below

    We could also combine both approaches: when you approach a planet from space and then land on it, the FoW can be semi-transparent, while the FoW is fully opaque on the starter planet and planets you reached via teleportation.

    Finally, we adapted the reveal distance of FoW based on your feedback. It is now fixed to 500m, which is equal to the discovery distance of deposits/POIs.

    We are looking forward to your feedback.

    Yours,
    Empyrion Dev Team

    ===============

    CHANGELOG: Alpha Experimental 8.0.4 (Build 1649)

    Changes:
    - Tweaked Fog-of-War shader: fully opaque, added gridlines
    - Fog-of-War reveal distance is now always 500m independent of detector range

    Here is a teaser for the next EXP release:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #1
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  2. SilvRav

    SilvRav Moderator
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    I like it! :) makes sense for FOW this way. nice to have both
     
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  3. dtmullican

    dtmullican Commander

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    I like this idea :)
     
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  4. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Great.

    I feel the "picky" players may now want to have both : "dark" for out-of-rendering distance, and "semi-dark" between dark and "discovered in range"...
     
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  5. FUE DENIS

    FUE DENIS Lieutenant

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    FoW totalement opaque: NUL :mad:
     
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  6. michaelhartman89

    michaelhartman89 Rear Admiral

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    My concern with this approach is if I am in orbit and circle the planet while in orbit, will my ship map the planet surface. It seems like we would have that technology in this age and not be oblivious to the layout of the planet.

    However for the starter planet, this approach makes sense. For every other planet the FOW should be transparent.

    Maybe we SHOULD have to scout and map out planets from orbit which should require new systems for our CV and SV. Add a scanner that can be used in orbit to update our GPS/mini map
     
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    Last edited: May 26, 2018
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  7. Hicks42

    Hicks42 Rear Admiral

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    Not. Impressed.

    So, let me Get this straight. You want us to uncover a 1,303,800 Km/2 Planet in 2.5 Km/2 chunks?....
    REALLY? :mad:

    At 50 m/s ... WTF.
     
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    Last edited: May 26, 2018
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  8. WolfEyes

    WolfEyes Captain

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    I know I said in another thread that I'm ok with the opaque thing but part of me is still not liking it and it keeps coming back to haunt me. Perhaps because I am so used to being able to see lakes and mountain ranges (and be able to zoom in a bit) on the map. Or it could be because the opaque layer (?) strains my eyes, even with my new prescription glasses on. The problem is I have Astigmatism.

    The reason I bring this up is because it is more common than many think (see link above) so I hope the devs will take this into consideration when making a final decision on the opacity.

    And just so you know, I don't have a problem with anything else concerning the FoW and I do like the grid overlay. It makes sense.
     
    #8
  9. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Maybe at some point the AI will be able to scramble our radars to keep some areas from being completely "scanned"... This would make sense on worlds where the enemies have strong presence. For planets devoid of alien tech, it could be different. I wished (and still do) for big "structures" to be visible from space, so players know where to make their entry on the planet playfield. It bugs me to see nothing from space, then as soon as I "spawn" and get out of the fog/ clouds I'm heading right towards a hostile POI that gets a few free shots at me...
     
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  10. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    I wonder if a combination of the two techniques might work?

    So, explored terrain would be fully coloured in as now. Slightly more distant terrain would be greyed out, but in such a way that very visible things like mountains are obvious, but other terrain features are obscured. Anything beyond this range is blank.

    Personally, I prefer having zero knowledge of terrain I've not mapped beforehand. However, I'm trying to find a compromise that works.

    Arriving in orbit of a planet should allow the player to take a basic scan of the terrain - no POI's or Resource Deposits detected - but to do this a new type of Scanner should be implemented. Also the player should only get an image of the side of the planet they actually face, they'd be required to do a full orbit to gain a full map....even then the poles might be somewhat obscured...which isn't a huge loss.

    When crashing in the escape pod, well, assumptions have to be made regarding what sort of sensor suite it might have installed, if any. So, perhaps it could give the player a limited (greyed out) map of the immediate crash site on its way down. This might be a good leg up for newer players, though perhaps not as they'd be unfamiliar with just about everything they're seeing, greyed out or not lol.

    Scoob.
     
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  11. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Apart from the "hemisphere in view" you mention, this sounds exactly like what Eleon mentioned to be planned : "obscured" map for "starter worlds" and "teleport destinations", and "semi-obscure" where the player had a view from space prior to get on the planet.
     
    #11
  12. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    On another note: that "MS TITAN" POi is great, but the model has a very explody front end. I notice a lot of RED SI even when it's fully supported by the ground. I had to add some blocks to it for support to make it green, even though visually it was well supported by the ground.

    Note: I've excavated this particular POI many many times over multiple games.

    Scoob.
     
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  13. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    This.

    We actually CAN have both. Question is if this is agreed upon to have full opacity for starter planets and ANY playfield you do NOT LAND WIH A SHIP on. Think of planets that are only reachable via Portal or Teleporter.
     
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  14. Brimstone

    Brimstone Rear Admiral

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    The problem with the wider reveal is that it did nothing to help you track your progress- you "revealed" territory that you were unable to ID anything in yet.. made tracking progress impossible. Barring the radar actually extending ID range (hint, hint), this way will actually be more useful, as contradictory as it may sound. Obviously, the better solution would be tiers of scanners that allowed greater ranges


    Underwater POIs are a good thing, especially if the middle picture's implication of some kind of SCUBA equipment is correct..

    How about a different combination- add that scanners render the grid semi-transparent within their range, but full reveal is within the ID range. Then the next step is the higher tier sensors with longer ranges

    Oh, and keep the grid as a toggleable feature, preferably with map grid referents


    *EDIT*

    Dammit, Scoob... you type too fast ;) Ah well, we seem to be on the same page
     
    #14
  15. Starwing6

    Starwing6 Rear Admiral

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    I really think that's the perfect solution. The planets reached via space travel have the semi-transparent fog, and planets you start on or teleport to have a fully opaque fog. Everyone gets to enjoy both ways, precisely where they make the most sense. :D
     
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  16. WolfEyes

    WolfEyes Captain

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    I see the sense in it and I have to agree. Just please try to take into consideration those of us who have Astigmatism. That's all I ask.

    While my astigmatism is on the "mild" side, if looking at just the image posted of the map strains my eyes, I can image the pain (headaches) it will cause those whose astigmatism is [much] worse than mine.
     
    #16
  17. cp6891

    cp6891 Commander

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    Why not make it an option for starting a game. Servers could set it the way they want for their members, single player could freely select how they want it in the difficulty settings. Make 3 option, Transparent, opaque, or off.
     
    #17
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  18. Laendra

    Laendra Lieutenant

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    TL;DR; My preference: FoW is full opaque until you explore, then it is semi-transparent until you are within visible (or detector) range. Radar sites would be a nice addition to expand visible range.

    My personal preference is to have FoW turned on to full opacity for planets until you explore them, either with a long range exploration device (i.e. flying around the planet, or some long range device on a BA/CV) or physically visiting them. This would allow you to view what is in range as as semi-transparent until you get within a physical view range (visual or with detector), which would be the only time you would ever see it non-semi-transparent. That fully clear view would only last while you were within that range, and then would go back to semi-transparent. Radar sites could be setup to expand this range so that you could keep an eye on specific areas.
     
    #18
  19. Combat Wombat

    Combat Wombat Lieutenant

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    need submarine engines for SVs and proper underwater bases
     
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  20. Exacute

    Exacute Captain

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    Def. for this.
    A combination of both could also be viable; Keeping some of the ideas from the first iteration:
    -The map is all black by default
    -The actually revealed part is == The distance your 'discover POI/Deposit' range (500m, yes?)
    -The opaque part is == Some math based on altitude (higher up = more is revealed.. Basically like many games do, with 'vantage points' (except this wouldn't be fixed vantage points, rather just rewarding being up high, as you can.. see further that way).. Possbily factor in the biome (lots of trees = less LoS, open area = more, foggy = way less, etc)). This would also mean, that entering from the atmosphere would reveal a pretty sizeable chunk of the planet (Kinda like having seen it from space.. )
    --Optionally, the entire planet is opaque, if the planet have been seen from space (I'm not sure which of the two is better)
    -The remainder is solid black.

    Down the line, devices such as radar or the like, could also serve to reveal a radius around where it's located, into 'opaque'.

    --
    Past that; Still on the 'make borders a little smoother' train feedback-wise :)

    I really like this concept! Keep at it!

    --
    And #waterhype
     
    #20
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