Needs attention Base Attack strength: appropriate or not?

Discussion in 'FAQ & Feedback' started by Hummel-o-War, Jun 23, 2019.

?

BAAT too weak or too strong?

  1. -2 . Laughable

    9 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. -1 . Weak

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  3. 0. About right

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  4. +1 . Strong

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  5. +2. WTF...

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  1. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
    Staff Member Community Manager

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    Hi folks,
    As everyone should have had the time to get hands on with the new base attacks, I’d like to ask for your judgement about the ATTACK STRENGHT what means amount and quality of drones, troopers etc. (Not the frequency, as this is governed by other factors)

    Of course this poll is not entirely comparable, but this is also not the goal. Make your choice based on the base that got attacked and the forces you faced in that attack, be it at game start, mid or late game or Poi or own base or whatever. I am asking for your judgement if the attack forces were too weak or too strong given the defenses and capabilities of the attacked base.

    I am not asking for the frequency or the threshold where the base attack happened or if they spawn too close!

    Please join the poll and share this link as this is an important info for the balancing.

    Of course voice your feedback on the given topic here as well.

    Please use the global feedback thread if you want to discuss the feature as a whole.
    https://empyriononline.com/threads/new-base-attack.49958/
     
    #1
  2. [BB]Drifter

    [BB]Drifter Lieutenant

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    To me it seemed pretty much full on when I spawned in. The issue for me though is that I’m playing it alone and I’m not sure if the attacks are scaled or just one strength. Wasn’t there long enough to see what would happen as I died fairly early.

    I would say it’s too strong but with a crew of players it may be just right or too weak if you understand what I’m saying.
     
    #2
  3. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    My first base attack with the starter base involved a single troop transport with 4 zirax troopers. Wherein the first problem is that turrets cannot differentiate between transports and troops and an empty transport should be ignored.
    It seems that projectile turrets have seen either a damage nerf or the base attack drones have an inordinate amount of health. It took on average around 15+ shots with a cannon turret to take out a minigun turret during my second base attack with a starter base.

    Unfortunately, in level 1 base attacks, this includes Rocket Base Attack Drones. These are the biggest problem i've encountered in base attacks. It takes roughly 5 rockets, or about 5 seconds for the rocket drones to take out a turret and any subsequent rockets will demolish the base entirely. Coupled with their newly boosted durability they're also firing at an immobile base (100% accuracy) and can fire their rockets far faster than any fixed rocket launcher or the regular rocket drone.
    The only defense against rocket drones is rocket turrets. But rocket ammo requires more work, an SV and a fully functioning base, which attracts base attacks, which results in catch-22. Factor in their cheaty spawn distance and they instantly take out the rocket turrets as they spawn.

    Remote hacking... i've only encountered it once. When a zirax trooper got stuck between the terrain and the wall of my second base. He could've gotten out of there, his buddies certainly did. I killed him before he finished, but the fact that he started it and only 15 or so blocks from the core is concerning.
    Personally, I don't want to see remote hacking be possible at all. Instead have the troopers that get stuck select the nearest major device as a target, then proceed to reaquire the core if they succeed. They either take out the base one piece at a time, or eventually get to the core. If they can't get to any device or the core, they call in a rocket drone (if there isn't one already) to target the core and blow a hole to it.
     
    #3
  4. Sephrajin

    Sephrajin Rear Admiral

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    In MP, I had started with my ERA-B EGS starterbase, providing 1 30mm Canon.
    At first I produced some ammo and added more projectil turrets to the Queue.

    6 cannons later the first attack was announced.
    3 drones (dont recall what), due to me just observing, they managed to destroy a solar Panel - at which Point I started to interact since the constructor (and Cargo) was just behind that Panel.

    Added 2 more cannons and never ever had to bother or care About an attack - on the starter.

    ----
    Since I knew what to expect and had proper preparations, it wasnt as hard, devasting or challenging at all.
    --> If i werent at the base during the first attack, i'd probably had lost everything! ;)
    I'm Pretty sure a new Player would experience the same Situation very different, it was on a 'medium' difficulty planet though. (Mobs from lvl 5-9)

    -----

    After leaving the starter System with my Faction, we settled on a breathable cool planet.
    After some Action, we've achieved hostility with Zirax and after laying down the General outline of the base, we've got an attack Chance of 55%.

    Thus, everytime i log in now, i hear the Alarm go on, warning of Incoming zirax.
    (not the Topic, just stating)

    I then usualy see 1 trooptransporter and not sure wether or not or how many drones were with it, as it sounds that it might have shot one or two down until I was loaded completly into the game.

    Since the bases is called Fortress and 'consists' mostly of walls surround an area to park 1x 280x100m CV and some smaller ones within, it has some weapons installed -> though, still only 'starter' amounts.
    * 1 artillery
    * 6 30mm
    * 1 flak
    * 1 155mm h-msl

    They did manage once to get near the core… Standing next aside it to start remote hacking (that violet/Purple bubble - i assume)…
    Placed some automated sentry's to protect the close by area of the core, and eversince, I usualy just see 'gratulations, you have defeated the attack wave' upon Login or arriving at base to defend.

    I like it as it is.
    It is something to Keep in mind - be Aware and plan your base accordingly - while not threating too much directly, as there IS a Chance that they CAN slip through your defences regardless.

    The server's General difficulty is medium AFAIK.
     
    #4
  5. Jieirn

    Jieirn Lieutenant

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    3 days in with 4 people playing and we have forgotten that base attacks exists. The only issue I have is shield strength overall, which means that sometimes my ships parked at the base get damaged before the base.
     
    #5
  6. Ravis

    Ravis Commander

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    I can see why people would have issues early game with maybe 2 ish turrets. But there's a drop off after that, 3+ and base attacks seem to drop off in significants pritty quick.

    My actually experience, while I loose a turret once in a while. It still has never made me build anything more than projectile turrets. I'm on the alien planet and I've had a transport land once. No troops lived longer than Probably a few seconds. no more than 5 drones or transports at a time.
     
    #6
  7. Zaflis

    Zaflis Commander

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    On easy difficulty i had a base with 4 cannon turrets (on roof corners) and 4 sentries at corners just block above ground level. First attack and i lost 1 sentry and troop transport retreated before the turrets got it down. Added a few more turrets since but they can't seem to shoot down the transports. But i'm not gonna vote on OP cause i've had too few attacks to have an opinion. I can say they're manageable, if you rush the turrets fast right after building the base, and assuming you mined enough ores to build all needed ammo etc.
     
    #7
  8. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    I picked "Weak" because the initial attacks even vs. a fairly lightly armed base seem, well, a little weak - at least to a prepared player. I fully accept that this attack may well have been overwhelming for a less experience / prepared player.

    Additionally, I've been a little disappointed thus far that the attacks have remained weak despite my Base being quite heavily updated over time - the Zirax seem to think the same three Light Drones will have a chance...they don't. Equally, I only very very rarely see a Troop Transport, which is disappointing.

    After my very first base attack, which consisted (IIRC) of a Troop Transport and a Drone or two, actually managed to land some Zirax Troops, I ramped up my defences substantially in anticipation of future attacks, which never really came to much.

    I have actually just posted a thread on the subject of whether Base attacks ramp up over time or not - I think they should, but perhaps via an optional gamestart setting. In prior game versions - admittedly some time ago now - I'd regularly set up playfields with ever increasing Drones waves of more and tougher drones...was awesome! I've tried to stay vanilla for quite some time now though, in an attempt to aid with testing.

    Also, I do still wonder why the Troop Transport from that very first attack, dug some fairly substantial holes in the landscape near by base.

    Scoob.
     
    #8
  9. andresdebuenr

    andresdebuenr Ensign

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    Truth be told, base attacks in SP, Coop or MP are pretty laughable. Of course, it might seem they are challenging when you are running barefeet and naked, but this can be changed really fast. In 3 hours of gameplay you can perfectly create a small base with some turrets. The problem is, as soon as you place turrets on your base, base attacks are pretty unchallenging. Increasing difficulty does not make it any fun either, it just adds more HP to enemies.
    However, increasing the attacking size, or making it an adjustable option in the game would be brilliant.
    In fact, I would love to see an in-game option to adjust the enemy's attack on your bas; such options could be:
    *Low-Medium-High-Ultimate (fixed number of enemy NPC's with random enemy type, increasing with difficulty)
    *Scalable (Enemy forces increase with the number of turrets or block in your base, through personal level or through time. Planet difficulty also affects size).
    *Customized (You can choose the number of NPC's spawn probability and type of NPC that can attack your base; also you ca adjust the frequency of the attacks.
    * (in a checkbox, can be coupled with all other options) Allow NPC use of HVs, SVs and CVs (For a funnier and more dynamic defending experience, you can toggle this option to allow the enemy to use even Capital Vessels to attack your base.
    * (in a checkbox-can be coupled with all other options) Allow waves in base attack. (this option could also enable a wave customization menu;

    The thing is, base attacks are pretty unchallenging and pointless after early game. I'd love to see an army swarm to my base and test my defenses.
    You can be overpowered in the game pretty easily. And I would not my options to be nerfed in any way; on the contrary, I'd love to see my challenges and number of enemies increase in return.

    Another voxel game, 7 days to die, executes this nicely. Every 7th day, no matter how badass your base is, it is put to the ultimate test. And the longer you've been there, the harder and more numerous your enemies become.

    I'd love to see that in this game.
     
    #9
  10. Zaflis

    Zaflis Commander

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    Maybe as an option though, i uninstalled the game after 26 hours... Built a couple bases in that time even in multiplayer and they all fell. We don't have infinite technology tree or infinite amount of turrets possible to be built that we would need to compensate for enemies that never stop growing in strength.
     
    #10
  11. Jawatraders

    Jawatraders Lieutenant

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    I think having the attack scale with the number of turrets/defenses would be a great idea. Also, I would love to see more specialized ground troopers, so as your base gets more powerful you're facing more power troops that have different skill sets.

    I also think that there should be a certain point where a PV is spawned in with the attack force. I'm not sure how you could determine if a base is strong enough for a PV, but it could serve as a spawning point for additional troop transports.
     
    #11
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  12. Robin

    Robin Lieutenant

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    Die Basisangriffe sind lächerlich einfach. 4 einfache Geschütztürme auf dem Dach und schon schafft es der Truppentransporter noch nicht mal zu landen.

    Basisangriffe sollten dynamisch an Stärke zunehmen, wenn diese vom Spieler ohne Probleme abgewehrt werden. Eventuell könnte das Spiel messen, wie schnell der Spieler die Gegner zerstört und dann für den nächsten Angriff einen Bonus oder Malus auf einen Angriffswert hinzurechnen.

    Truppentransporter können viel zu schnell zerstört werden. Sie sollten sich gegen Angriffe mit einem kleinen Raumschiff oder Bodengleiter auch selbst verteidigen können. Zum Beispiel mit Raketen. Außerdem sollten Truppentransporter ein gutes Schutzschild haben.

    Truppentransporter sollten etwas intelligenter agieren. Wichtig ist schon mal, dass sie beim Spieler mit vollen Trefferpunkte überhaupt ankommen. Das ist oft nicht der Fall. Dann sollte der Truppentransporter zum Absetzen seiner Ladung sofort ansetzen, wenn seine Trefferpunkte unter 50% fallen. Das erfolgreiche Absetzen der Truppen sollte der Regelfall sein.

    Wobei ich sagen muss, dass ich im normalen Schwierigkeitsgrad bisher gespielt habe. Allerdings auf einem Planten mit hohem Schwierigkeitsgrad, wo viele Stufe 10 Gegner sind.

    Fazit: Basisangriffe sind für mich derzeit von geringer Bedeutung.

    PS: Ich bin Einzelspieler

    - - - -

    Unfortunately, I can only speak very little English. Translation program German – English:

    The base attacks are ridiculously easy. 4 simple turrets on the roof and even the troop transport does not even manage to land.

    Basic attacks should increase in strength dynamically if they are defended by the player without any problems. Eventually the game could measure how fast the player destroys the opponents and then adds a bonus or penalty to an attack value for the next attack.

    Troop carriers can be destroyed too fast. They should also be able to defend themselves against attacks with a small spaceship or Floor Glides. For example with rockets. In addition, troop transporters should have a good protective shield.

    Troop carriers should act a little smarter. It is important that they arrive at the player with full hit points at all. This is often not the case. Then the troop transport should drop off its charge immediately if its hit points fall below 50%. The successful put down the troops should be the rule.

    But I have to say that I have played at normal difficulty so far. However, on a high difficulty planet where many level 10 enemies.

    Conclusion: Basic attacks are currently of little importance to me.

    PS: I am a single player
     
    #12
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  13. andresdebuenr

    andresdebuenr Ensign

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    Well, thats new; I've never lost a base and I'm pretty sure I don't have my base optimized for protection. I only play PVE, only on private servers. Sometimes Coop with a couple of friends.
    And yeah, i'd love to see it as an option. Using an algorythm based on player level, base size, planet difficulty and amount of resourses owned by player or faction, game progression, etc. would increase not only the chance of an attack (but the enemy numbers aswell).
    I wrote a threat in which i elaborate on this proposal, I'd love it if you guys could check it out and give some feedback:
    https://empyriononline.com/threads/...-better-base-attacks-on-sp-coop-and-mp.57538/
     
    #13
  14. Sephrajin

    Sephrajin Rear Admiral

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    After my inital post of saying:
    Well done/balanced - i have to revise that.

    First aatacks on the starter seemed strong.
    After 2 attacks i had enough turrets to ingore the warning.

    It got worse on the non-starter planet.
    Whhile at the beginning, each time i loged on, there was a warning...
    After they started that purple bubble and got shot down....
    I never ever seen an attack again....

    Base was class 12. (~6% chance by its own)
    Attack chance was at 55%.

    Silent for days to come....
    Despite having a drone base 2km afar left AND right...

    Atacks needs to be stronger on non-starter planet!
     
    #14

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