CPU Limits and Blocks

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MikeCobalt44, Aug 21, 2022.

  1. The Big Brzezinski

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    I think you're running more into the problem of fittings not scaling to this size of ship. You've got 38 2-stroke outboards on the back of a container ship.
     
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  2. XLJedi

    XLJedi Lieutenant

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    Yeah, which is why just a "glowey-engine" square block would be preferrable.
     
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  3. Insopor

    Insopor Lieutenant

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    No.
    No, a second time even.

    It's called a limit for a reason. If the limit is literally whatever your PC can handle without exploding, then it's not a limit for balance.
    Also, the limit was put in place for balance, not performance. While it can be easily argued that there still doesn't exist good balance, I can say with certainty that a ship of that size is so large as to be unbalanced. Nothing in the game is built around a ship like that existing, so you will run into issues during gameplay.

    I know a lot of people say this as a knee-jerk response when someone complains about CPU, but in this case, I think it's actually applicable to suggest you just play with CPU off. Your build is so far beyond the limit that you should just turn off the limit and be done with it.

    That is... unless you can provide answers to the following:
    What is even the point of a limit if it just extends to wherever you decide to stop at?
    How on earth would said "scaling limit" actually function and provide any sensible balance to the game?

    Not trying to knock you. The build looks great and all, but the comment I quoted just... c'mon man.
     
    #23
  4. XLJedi

    XLJedi Lieutenant

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    Well I'm operating within the limit as set by the creative build area. It is not unlimited, I just used the space available. I had to scale the build down 1/4 size so it would fit within the set limit.

    I can spawn this in game and use it, with CPU limits on. I just have to obtain the advanced core by collecting galactic tokens.

    Based on the build area available and the CPU limits including blocks and so forth. For what is allowed to be created, the CPU limit should be larger by about a factor of 5-7x.

    If you never come close to building something to max out the space they give you, you wouldn't notice.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
  5. Garaman

    Garaman Captain

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    How much CPU is allocated to blocks? If the whole thing is combat steel you may want to drop parts down to regular steel or plastic. Weaker blocks in non-critical sections means less CPU for blocks, and also less thrust required to push the lower mass so you can reduce your thruster count.
     
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  6. XLJedi

    XLJedi Lieutenant

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    For a vessel this size you are using layers of blocks for armor. Interior pressure hull and outer armor.
     
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  7. MikeCobalt44

    MikeCobalt44 Ensign

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    That was the Point of my creating this thread :). That station as it is now is still just blocks (% 99.5) and it's not the biggest by far. It since has had a few doors added (less then 10) (18 weapons for concept now) but I noticed this as a rising problem long before those were added. This is not a vehicle, I'm not trying to power any jets large or small and it's final compliment of weaponry was never intended to be many (in story it's a fleet hub). The main issue is how much CPU is devoted to a simply "Do Nothing" block. This is/will be a POI so the concern has lowered substantially for me but it still remains so much is devoted to just blocks.
     
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  8. Garaman

    Garaman Captain

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    This is one of the reasons I play RE, because Vermillion removed all CPU costs from construction blocks and rebalanced generators, thrusters, and CPU caps so you adjust those to move the weight you choose to add in blocks. For bases it means you can build to max extents with armored concrete and not worry about CPU costs.

    But I think while that's fine for PvE (from a balance perspective I don't think any base can stand up to a Tovera for more than a minute) it probably creates a huge imbalance in PvP. If you could bury your base inside a giant concrete cube it would cost far too much ammo for your opponent to break through. But this is speculation. It's one of the reasons I am now advocating for a little more transparency about what limitations are needed for PvP vs PvE, and to promote some system to separate them so each game mode does not artificially limit the other.

    In your case though, it's the same question I asked XLJedi: what is your actual CPU cost in blocks, and can you use less-expensive blocks in certain areas (interior walls, floors, deco, areas that don't need to protect equipment or aren't targeted by turrets) and get your CPU savings there?
     
    #28
  9. XLJedi

    XLJedi Lieutenant

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    The Empyrica is at 5.4 MM on total hull, about 4.9MM is combat steel. For a Battlestar, and adhering to weapon limits, it needs the armor.

    But honestly, I have pretty modest CV designs with hangars, and I run-up to the limit using just a single block shell of armor. I have simple bland designs that are stepping on the limits without the first weapon installed or interior pressure hull. Add 4 XL engines and you've already used 20% of your CPU, throw on a dozen directional thrusters, or try to add vertical thrust to visit planets and you are at the max pretty quickly.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
  10. The Big Brzezinski

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    There's 20,276,800 CPU points' worth of thrusters on that 1/4 battlestar picture. It's pretty much advanced core or bust.
     
    #30
  11. XLJedi

    XLJedi Lieutenant

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    LOL, well if you play RE to avoid the block CPU usage, then you are in agreement that the vanilla CPU limits are insufficient.

    I disagree however that blocks should have no CPU, there are electrical, fuel, air conduits apparently built into each block and should have a systems requirement. An aircraft carrier and a fighter hull will be significantly different in terms of what it takes to run the frame.
     
    #31
  12. XLJedi

    XLJedi Lieutenant

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    Indeed, but I have modest CV designs with 4 XLs and that alone uses 20% of available CPU. ...not to mention any attempt at directional thrusters or something pointing down to lift an XL thruster CV from the surface of a planet.

    [​IMG]
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    I mean this is a bare bones single-layer hull before I even begin to add cargo, weapons, constructors, gravity, etc. ...and I'm already beyond 6 mil. It's really not skimping on combat steel that will make a difference here.

    In the initial design, with exception of thruster placement, I just bunch the major devices in the middle like this to see what I have to work with in terms of CPU.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
  13. Insopor

    Insopor Lieutenant

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    Just because the dimensions allow a bigger craft doesn't mean the rest of everything should be balanced around that. The only thing that will come of pushing that logic is the max dimensions will be nerfed.

    That's roughly the same as saying that because you bought a corvette that does 190mph, highway speed limits should be increased to scale with the max capabilities of your car. If it comes down to an 'either or' choice, the powers that be will just have the corvette limited at 60mph top speed.


    I would love a gameplay system balanced around higher limits. I'd love to see thousands of turrets firing from a planet-eclipsing dreadnought without bringing the frame rate into the decimals. But this ain't that game. The different limits such as dimensions, block count limits, CPU limits, all exist for a reason. Granted, again, they don't all achieve that purpose in a perfectly sensible way, but they're still largely better than not having them.

    To note, I'm really only replying to point out my disagreement with your "I'm within dimensions" argument. Otherwise, carry on.


    Now on another note, regarding the "do nothing" blocks and Reforged's approach. I really do like the reforged approach and balance... Except that it doesn't favor the fun, arcadey, mobility of the base game. The rest of the balance is nice, but it goes a bit too hard on crippling heavier ships. Such heavy ships shouldn't be as fast as we can get with 10m cpu, but I think RG goes too far the other direction. And also, too many hitscan or otherwise unavoidable weapons. Thus forcing the use of shields, or heavier armor; returning to slow ships.
    The disclaimer to that statement is that I base balance off of PvP as AI is a breeze and otherwise unbalanced as hell; and also that I don't actively play RG or RE at the moment, so my knowledge isn't exhaustive of what's current.

    Still though, I think I'm in the ballpark at least.
     
    #33
  14. Garaman

    Garaman Captain

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    This is also why the advanced core still exists in Vanilla. If you can afford a 20m CPU ship, you can probably afford the combat ship required to take out an Infector to get a core.
     
    #34
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2022
  15. MikeCobalt44

    MikeCobalt44 Ensign

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    I actually Do Agree with most of the balances and limits of the game for the same reasons they're implimented. I dont believe giant Capital Vessels should be acting like X-Wings and when your moving at speed in one direction, well it's going to be like that for a bit; that's just life and every popular story. Let the smaller ones zip around weaving in and out of the moving monoliths. But all that Zippieness is the other side of the balance the larger ships/bases have in abundance, plenty of armor and powerful shields. This station has zero engines to power and as it is a location of interest in a story, it does not/will not need most of the "My home" type devices. The outer shell is hardened steel but the rooms and corridors inside are just steel. I do believe overall size should have some influence, but this I think is too much, it's a base, it just hangs there.
     
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