CV to CV repair.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by xtended2l, Jan 15, 2021.

  1. xtended2l

    xtended2l Commander

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    I am building big aircraft carrier-type CV which will take all other CV's aboard and move them across the galaxy, thanks to the feature that one CV is able to dock another one. Though I was very disappointed, that the repair bay on CV cannot repair other CV's, so it seems I still need to construct small bases with repair bays here and there. Is there any reasoning beyond that? I mean isn't it an artificial limitation? Is there a chance it will change in the future? Thanks.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  2. me777

    me777 Commander

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    its artificial and can be changed in the config files.
    I doubt it will be changed, at least in vanilla, because it makes bases more important...
    (likewise the deconstructor works only on ba in vanilla, but also on cv in reforged)
     
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  3. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    I believe it was once considered but - as @me777 said - the importance of Base-Structures was underlined.
     
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  4. xtended2l

    xtended2l Commander

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    Yeah I know there are a lot of such limitations. But it doesnt work for the repair procedure. I mean I have a blueprint of small base, which consist only of repair bay, console, generator and a fuel tank. I can fix my CV anywhere and dismantle this base in a second and put devices back to the magic factory. Even if there is no magic factory - I can just take these parts with me, and assemble-repair-disassemble on the go. It takes less time, than travelling to the nearby repair station. Does it look more immersive than repairing on a big vessel? Did it made your main base important? There are really too much artificial limitations in the game which force some very weird vision over realism, immersion and common logic.
     
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  5. Darinth

    Darinth Commander

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    I wasn't aware of this. Yeah, it seems a little weird to me. Is there a reason that the importance of BAs is emphasized at all? Honestly, late game a large CV really becomes a mobile base.
     
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  6. Track Driver

    Track Driver Rear Admiral

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    There appears to be a "faction" that insists that Bases are the Staff of Life, the ultimate construct that MUST be the central theme. That there is no place for nomadic ships roaming the galaxy. Why this is, I have no idea. I have encountered it many times in the past. I always presumed it had to do with MP gaming issues.

    I have always urged that a SV or CV could have a multi-tool turret to at least repair visible damage. More recently, it was suggested to add a repair bay to a CV to tend to other CVs. In the BP inventory, I found what I thought was the prefect design for a repair ship. Unfortunately, the repair bay could not be manipulated to aim its healing rays in the desired direction. (As I write this, it has given me an idea).
     
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  7. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    I am, for sure, no Member of such a Faction. ;)
    But lets face it, in SF-Genre Star Ships gonna get Repairs, Supply and Replenishment .... in Star-BASES!:)

    So, where is here a Problem to get the necessary Repairs to be done at a Base in Space?
     
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  8. xtended2l

    xtended2l Commander

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    The problem is in balance again ;)
    Repairs are very illusive here. We can repair damaged blocks using multitool for little cost or using multiturret for almost no cost. Still at base there are always some cost of iron. Why Repair Bay needs iron along with energy it consumes already? Also why Iron? No matter which blocks are getting repaired, xeno steel or devices - we need iron in order to repair.
    Also, as I mentioned it is very weird to have ability to spawn small base and repair on the go, so in fact small piece of junk repairs huge ship, but huge ship cannot repair another one.
     
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  9. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    Its not only those 'dents' in yours CV Hull that need Iron but replaces Lost Blocks as well.
    Btw., IFIRC.. if you salvage a Xeno-Block it provides Steel Plates too, right?

    If your CV has NO Iron in its Built(which may have been damaged) and the Repair Bay still requires Ion Ingots---> Bug Report

    If you like to suggest that Repair Bays should be reworked/changed - start a new Threat;)

    Do don't know of any restrictions in Real Life, do you?:rolleyes: If you do - why do you complain about whats restricted in this game than?

    If all would go your way...what need/use would a BASE have if we can do all things with a CV?
    Matter is closed for me.
    I have my Game running in the Background:p.
     
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  10. xtended2l

    xtended2l Commander

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    I know, I was compairing ordinary repairs, not reconstruction.

    I am already lost what in this game is a bug and what is not :D It could be another weird decision of the developers. And in particular thread it IS weird, because all these blocks consist of other materials too, not only iron. It is obvious, that the device that is damaged for 99%, cannot require ONLY steel in order to repair.

    Which restrictions are we talking about? If we talk about social, government and such restrictions they are Rules. They are abstract, not Real and created to keep society functioning. You still can ignore them, even if you'll get punishment from authorities who created these rules. Can you ignore restrictions in the game? Sure, you can edit configs lol But the thread is about logic in vanilla. Can we ignore these rules using legit ways? No. So the comparison is false. But I understand what you are trying to say. And yes, it is my fault, I complaint when I see illogical things. FYI, even in real Life ;)

    Just as a side note, I have several friends from Germany, and all of them confuse "then" with "than" lol I wonder why? :p

    Of course no. You can build much larger base, than CV, or vice versa - it doesn't matter, the size of the base/vessel should dictate rules, only because it offers more possibilities, not because of icon if it is a CV or Base. We already have a lot of Zirax bases which are for whatever reasons are CV's. And I am absolutely ok with that. If we will remember StarGate Atlantis, the base there was actually a ship of enormous size, and that was epic.

    Tbh it is obvious when a series of limitations started - when they made a separation for Capital/Base and so on. You can call it an Original Sin. Now they create more limitations to cover previous limitations. It is an avalanche. And it is obvious that we should just deal with that, because they will not rewind it all because it goes against their vision. It seems I have to start modding again lol

    P.S. I died twice in the game because of starvation while typing this comment :p
     
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  11. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    These futuristic devices operate at the quantic level, so any material can be used. :D

    I made a 4 km long CV (2 km wide, 500 m high) not long ago, and had quite a hard time trying to get it on a planet. The ship was longer than the playfield's max allowed height, so it wiggled around and refused to cooperate. It took me like 5 minutes to stabilize it and even then it refused to align with the ground, probably because there was too much ground to know at what altitude align the ship (with the hills? the plains ?).

    Next time I will go down on a planet with such a thing I will go horizontally. At the same time, I find it cool that the game, with its inherent limitations, imposes some "logic" that we, players, often refuse to acknowledge : big starships don't belong on planets. Now I have solid proof of that ! :cool:
     
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  12. xtended2l

    xtended2l Commander

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    Sounds more like an Alchemy! :D

    Let me guess, the guns of that ship were not able to fire in atmosphere? :p

    Great example! Thanks mate! I am definitely sure it was not because the starship had CV icon on it lol
     
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  13. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Well... actually since the "real" CV can only be 200 x 200 blocks max (400 meters) the guns attached to it would have been "inside" the "decals" CV. Also the weapons range was shorter than the decals ship (even modded to longer range) so this is a delicate topic. This kind of stuff is definitively for scenarios, like a "civilian" CV or any non-warship type because of these limitations.

    In all "modding" there has to be a goal, and although we can do lots of things with what Eleon provided us, I see the limits are more on the player/ designer side, because modding with no clear plan or objective leads nowhere. We can make cute models and ships and huge bases, but these have to serve some purpose, so the hours invested in making these are not wasted.
     
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  14. xtended2l

    xtended2l Commander

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    On the second thought why the hell am I trying to find Erestrum. I want to make all ammo out of iron then :D

    P.S. I am curious of the fate of that ship. Did it ended up laying on the surface?
     
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  15. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    It died in a folder somewhere on my hard drive. Let me check if I still have it...

    Edit : Nope, it's gone for good. I only kept the base blueprint for the CV but not the decals file. I tried doing something not too ugly but given the size it was quite difficult to line up things perfectly with weird angles. I always ended up with a small gap between pieces, so I scrapped it and tried another method : make a smaller model inside the grid limits, and scale the measuers up to make the bigger version. Much easier that way, since the game places decals with the precise angles (when doing the old method with the console command decalsclip).
     
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  16. xtended2l

    xtended2l Commander

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    I understand it quite good. That is why I was talking about "artificial" limitations. They are not reasonable. In your case, the CV was TOO big, and that what should limit players. You cannot handle such ship, you cannot lift it. As in real life. Creating such a huge ship should be pointless for the player, because he should not be able to lift it to the orbit, OR it would take enormous amount of energy and leave your fuel tanks dry with a possibility of not reaching your goal and crashing back to the planet surface. Let the player feel the real weight of this monster. Let the player UNDERSTAND why huge starship is not belong to planets! Do not convert it to religion - just believe me. No. Show me why. And it applies to all elements of any game. Good balance is a lot harder, than writing another if then statement or pointing arrows in Unity.
    My issue is that I have seen almost all Space-themed games during last 30 years, endless amount of products. There were a lot of really talented people in the industry which just pitifully disappeared, because there were no demand. We have new concepts like "indie", "early access" and so on. And even if it seems like Game Development should be going at light speed now, with all these ready to use tools like Unity, still there are a lot more flaws in the development of all the games currently in development. And I understand reasons, but pitifully cannot voice them.
    So all I can do is giving some suggestions and advice, even if it seems like complaint lol
    The only reason I complaint here, is because I like this game, and I want it to prosper. If I wouldn't, I would have been on another forum for a long time, and would have complained there :p
     
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  17. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Don't start me on that ! :D

    I'm not arguing your base argument here at all. I modded my CVs so all weapons can shoot on a planet, I don't like "artificial" limitations, nor too much realism in that kind of game. Huge spaceships and stations belong to space, in fact not only for "logical" reasons but also for performance : making a huge space city from many interconnected POIs can be its own playfield in space, no need to add extra cheese and a planet and whatnot. Making the same on a planet, I would not put much else, and it would be a desert with no trees, because performance.

    When they made the move to v1.0, the developers stated that they did not envision that the game would make it so far so well when they started their project, and I believe them. SO I don't see it so badly if some things feel thrown together, everything is there for us to tackle now, and I have not even scratched the surface of what we can do. My guess is that mods will soon start pouring in, and maybe Eleon will happily pick ideas in there to put in the vanilla game. I just wish I knew everything so I could make clear tutorials so even noobs could start submitting content, to the measure of their capacity.

    Today I discovered "by error" that I can make a thing/ part of a thing vanish from a command in the control panel (by extension : with a signal...). When I connect the dots, this means a lot of new tricks can be made out of such a simple thing. ;)
     
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  18. Darinth

    Darinth Commander

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    I'll be honest... the later you get into the game, the less a BA continues to make sense, but it still will continue to have uses. Applying artificial limitations that don't make logical sense as a way of forcing base relevancy doesn't make sense.

    Early on, all of the materials and research needed to setup a CV are out of your reach. Even in the mid-game, having a stable base makes sense. But at some point, switching over to a base that also happens to be equipped with propulsion just makes sense... and really that's all that a CV is. It's a base... that also happens to have it's own propulsion. Even with this... making way stations that are self-powering (thanks to solar) and stable to be able to return to when stuff goes wrong still makes sense. But... having your main base of operations being forced to be a base because there are still a few random pieces that you can't put on a CV for no particularly good reason... doesn't really seem to make sense to me. Not to mention... really all you have to do is stop by a friendly space station and use station services to do repairs anyways means... limiting CV repair to only be at bases doesn't really accomplish anything but annoy people. And the ability to plop down a Daern's Instant Repair station out of the factory at any point to do repairs anyways... there are about a dozen ways to circumvent the limitation they're all just annoying. So why apply it?
     
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  19. xtended2l

    xtended2l Commander

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    Forbidding Repair Bays on CV's to repair another CV's is definitely not because of the performance.

    I am curious, why they stopped only by separating the game to 4 pieces. I mean BA/CV/HV/SV. Why not make it 5? Maybe 10? Following current logic we should receive further separation of Space stations from Planetary Bases, then separation of mining vessels from battle vessels and recon vessels, and so on and so forth.

    That is my wish too. I want comfortable modding tools. I dont like asking everyone about another method that is working god knows how, creating injections, sitting for days looking into scripts which I extracted using dnspy and so on. I am too old for that already lol

    That is quite interesting, can you share more details? :)
     
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  20. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Well the CPU idea was a bit for this, "specialization", but it's really only a roleplay gimmick. As a "sandbox" game, I can hardly find better.

    It's all in there, around mid page :

    https://empyriononline.com/threads/modding-models-for-blocks-wip.96541/page-2

    .
     
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