Did NMS just copy Empyrion?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by burnout1620, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. burnout1620

    burnout1620 Lieutenant

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    They've released a "Foundation Update" for No Man's Sky, and here are a few of the added features:

    "First of all we’ve introduced three game modes. Normal mode is the original, chilled exploration experience you’re used to. Creative mode allows players to explore the infinite universe without limits, while also allowing them to craft to their heart’s content without any resource requirements. Survival mode pits players against a more brutal environment where merely staying alive is a challenge in itself."

    Creative mode? Survival mode? Seriously?

    "Secondly the Foundation Update brings base building to the game, giving players the opportunity to claim a home planet where they can start building and decorating their very own, fully customisable outpost."

    Hmm... sounds awfully familiar...

    Admittedly I've yet to play NMS, but this kinda grinds my gears a bit. Am I out of line?
     
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  2. Zuleica

    Zuleica Rear Admiral

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    I think most of that was planned for quite a while, and if I'm not mistaken the creative/survival mode thing is common but then I don't play a lot of survival games.
     
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  3. medicineman

    medicineman Captain

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    Sounds like stuff the game should have released with frankly. As it is I can't imagine buying a game with NMS's reputation just because they add a little bit of an update. Also they will probably use the crappy kind of building that goes with subnautica and games like that. Games where basically you build with pre-set module pieces instead of building from scratch with blocks.

    I guess it's a playstyle thing but I love the blocks.
     
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  4. Littletreewater

    Littletreewater Lieutenant

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    "If a tree falls in a forest... does anyone care?"

    I guess I'm more along the lines of do we care about this? NMS had issues beyond the game itself, it was mostly due to the 'promise' of content. Now obviously they've made their money so it can't be that terrible of a game. With that said, it is proof of what some not so honest advertising can do to a company.

    Empyrion I think has taken that lesson to heart and is working through it's alpha fairly well. It is a substantially long alpha, but the exchange in my opinion has been a rather playable alpha. It's more of a "play our designed game while we toss content at you and see what you think before releasing". A slacker's method of publishing games, buuuuut a few of them seem to be worth playing. In general though I mouse over the early releases.
     
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  5. Booyaah

    Booyaah Captain

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    'Steal from the best but make it your own'

    'Nobody will be a better self-promoter than yourself'


    :)
     
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  6. LiftPizzas

    LiftPizzas Rear Admiral

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    Simpsons did it! :)

    Minecraft had creative and survival mode before Empyrion did. I'm sure other games did before that. Even before building things was a thing, games had debug modes and cheat codes. idkfa, iddqd, idnoclip, dnstuff, uuddlrlrbastart, etc.

    Building your own stuff isn't new. There's even a racing game that's been out for over a decade where you build race tracks out of pre-modeled sections. :)
     
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  7. Slam Jones

    Slam Jones Rear Admiral

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    More the opposite... just because another game did it, doesn't mean NMS can't. Good ideas can apply to several competing games at the same time. I mean, I know it's fun to rip on NMS because that's the big thing to rip on at the moment, but they're still just another video game studio trying to get by.

    Look, it's not like only one game can claim an idea in its entirety. If they could, then the only voxel-building game would be Minecraft, which would mean, yes, that this game (and thousands of others) would not exist. If this was the case, there would be only one FPS series (probably CoD), and only one flight sim series, and only one driving series, etc.

    NMS can borrow ideas from EGS just as much as EGS can borrow from NMS, or Minecraft, or SE, or literally any game in the world. As long as one is careful to not tread into the realm of copyright infringement, one has a lot of creative freedom. And using ideas like 'building bases,' 'using a planet as a base,' and 'exploring the universe' are so freakin' broad of categories that they can literally apply to thousands of competing games at the same time. Not to mention that nearly every game with Survival and Building elements will have both 'Creative' and 'Survival' modes. That's pretty standard these days.

    I mean, geez, can you imagine if the only RTS was Herzog Zwei? What if the only City-Building game was the original Sim City? (Or technically Hamurabi). And if the only space combat game was A/X-101? I mean shoot, I had to look all of those up just to figure out what the original in the genre was.

    So no... his post was not off topic in the slightest.
     
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  8. Parakiet

    Parakiet Commander

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    NMS and EGS are different. Even with the NMS update.
    Since NMS isn't a building game it will never be an EGS.
    They added modular building. That's way different.

    But yes, you could play NMS now a bit more like EGS. Survive, built a base.

    That's about it.
     
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  9. Our Grid

    Our Grid Captain

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    Oscar Wilde said:
    “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.”

    But I am partial to EGS for the commitment I see from the devs, so yea, I'll share a Peter Griffin moment with you on that, especially after all the fail-sauce NMS poured out on release.
     
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  10. Slam Jones

    Slam Jones Rear Admiral

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    Mhm, well I don't know what happened in the other threads and frankly I don't care. If you have a personal issue with the guy, then try not to let that effect your judgement, k?

    What I'm seeing is this:

    OP: NMS has "copied" some elements that are present in EGS.
    - OP is asking, is this bad?

    Blackhawks post (OP of the linked thread only, I don't care about the subsequent arguing) is saying that just because one game does something, doesn't mean they are the ONLY ones that can do that. Ideas getting shot down is a consequence of that, not the root cause.
    - So to answer OPs question: No, this is NOT bad, because everyone does this. It is standard procedure.

    I don't care what was argued on other threads. I'm talking about what is posted here. If you want to talk about other threads, then do that in other threads. I'm talking about THIS thread.

    If you try to claim its off-topic simply because you are feeling bitter towards him, then that's your own issue.

    So: to get back to the thread: did NMS just copy Empyrion? No. No more than they've copied every other space building and/or exploration game ever.

    Are we so cocky and self-centered to think that EGS is the only space game that can be copied from? I say "no." And if you think "yes," well, I got a bridge to sell ya...
     
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  11. Ceabras

    Ceabras Commander

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    Having played to the "ending" of No Man's Sky and seeing the Foundation Update, I can say that Empyrion is a very different game (in a good way!) No Man's Sky's base building so far is limited to adding whole sections (e.g. rooms, hallways) with some customization options, as opposed to Empyrion's block-by-block building system.
     
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  12. Siege Inc.

    Siege Inc. Captain

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    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. If you come up with a good idea(the wheel, fire, transistors, flight) people are gonna use it and sometimes multiple people come up with the same idea at the same time. If an idea is good enough it becomes the standard so I don't see a problem with developers becoming inspired by the works of others and borrowing ideas. Some ideas are just too good not to use.

    In terms of game development I have no way of knowing for sure but the content of the new NMS update was probably in the works for quite some time. Software development cycles don't exactly turn on a dime if you get my meaning. If I find fault with Hello Games for anything it's not for borrowing good ideas but for the missteps they made in releasing their game. I understand their offices were flooded at one point and they lost a LOT of work. It almost killed development until Sony stepped in. Maybe the lack of features/content is due to that event and having to start over. I don't know.

    I found the game to be lacking in content which was especially disappointing considering the price tag and I find their decision to release it instead of going early access to be puzzling. I don't know if they were running short on funds or Sony was pushing them to get it out the door or what but to their credit they continue to develop the game and that new update is fairly substantial.

    Comparatively I've been rather pleased with Empyrion and how Eleon has been handling development. I'm looking forward to their next update and if they end up borrowing good ideas from other games along the way so much the better. It will mean a better, more entertaining game for me to play. =)
     
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  13. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Captain

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    Daniel Defoe's Robinson Crusoe was published in 1719. In it he describes survival, base building and dealing with a hostile environment. So it's not exactly a new concept. The first survival-type computer game was published in the early 1990's. Having blown its shot at being a great game NMS is trying to become a good one. Adding time honored survival elements is a smart move. If they keep at it then NMS may someday be as good as Empyrion is already.
     
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  14. burnout1620

    burnout1620 Lieutenant

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    Most if not all of the above posts make great points. EGS and NMS are indeed apples to oranges, however, from my point of view they inhabit the same genre.

    NMS launches, and the player base is up in arms about all of the content that was promised but not delivered on day 1. To their credit, Hello Games have made an effort to deliver additional content, and the foundation update seems to be just that.

    I didn't follow the launch that closely, but the main gripes I saw were the lack of any multiplayer, ship battles, and a small amount of content that was endlessly recycled. They addressed... umm... none of these elements in this update.

    Perhaps they did not copy EGS directly, as there are a couple other games in development that are in the same ballpark as my (our) current favorite title. But, they have added elements (albeit simplistic ones) that are core gameplay mechanics of this game and perhaps a few others in lieu of the features that were promised before launch, most probably because they were easier to implement and might calm down the player base.

    The last thing I want is what could be a true gem in EGS overshadowed by an overmarketed, overhyped game that sold for $60 a pop and THEN added content. Seems to me Eleon are doing things the right way, and by most accounts have a more complete, more enjoyable game and it's only an alpha.

    Mayne Sony should've put their advertising muscle behind this title... I suppose I should be careful what I wish for!

    P.S. I didn't want any controversy with this thread. I've lurked on these forums for some time and this seems to be one of the most mature player bases I've come across. Let's keep it civil!!
     
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  15. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Captain

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    The NMS devs had all of their gear wiped out by a flood at one point. That had to hurt. I think that they were harmed by the SONY deal. SONY has a massive marketing arm and my personal experience is that once marketing becomes involved things can go to hell pretty quickly. That's not to excuse anyone, more to provide some background.
     
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  16. Littletreewater

    Littletreewater Lieutenant

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    Backups backups backups! Preach it brutha!
     
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  17. DS_Marine

    DS_Marine Lieutenant

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    You must be new to gaming.
    I think you can't name any EGS feature that is not present in a previous game.
    (As other person mentioned, Stunts d.o.s. game had 'creative mode' and was released on 1990 xD).
     
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  18. burnout1620

    burnout1620 Lieutenant

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    Hardly. Chances are I'm older than you, by quite a bit.
    I will admit, I'm new to the genre, as Sins of a Solar Empire (and the Star Trek Armada 3 mod) kept me from playing much else for many years.

    What I saw was a game that failed to deliver content, and subsequently added content that wasn't on the radar. Seemed to me the added content had a lot in common with this title, which has been gaining momentum and popularity for many months now. Hence, the reason for my post, asking others if they thought this was the case.

    There were many constructive posts on the topic... Yours... isn't.
     
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  19. Parakiet

    Parakiet Commander

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    Btw I would love to import my basic one man exploration CV in the endless NMS play field.

    For the moment I am busy with EGS. Once I've visited all the EGS planets (vanilla) I'll reboot NMS. Hopefully with the 1.2 patch :)

    Still got a few EGS lego blockbuilding bases to create ^^
     
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  20. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Rear Admiral

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    In my Shamelessly Biased Opinion, Swords are Arrogant Stuck Up Pompous Better-Than-Thou Prissy Pretty Boy Weapons. Why doesn't anyone ever whine when they play a Game that turns out to have Swords in them, & complain that it's a rip off of *Insert any number of 10 BILLION other Games out there with Swords in them here*? I don't, & I hate Swords! :p

    Where's the Line on what is & is not allowed to be used again like it was in some prior Game? Can anyone show me where this Line is?
     
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