Drop Vessel (Comprehensive)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Throttle Kitty, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. Throttle Kitty

    Throttle Kitty Lieutenant

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    I see a lot of requests for multiple ship docking. I've thought long and hard about this, and one solution keeps standing out to me, not just for it's usefulness, but of it's ease of implementation, and minimal risk of destroying the balance of existing ships. Most importantly, no changes would need to made to existing ship classes, outside of compatibility with the existence of the new ship class, of coarse. I've decided to put this suggestion into one single comprehensive thread, instead of posting it in every relevant thread, to be lost on the umpteenth page.

    This ship class, as it's name implies, is a vessel almost exclusively for dropping gear and other vessels down to planets. It serves a distinct purpose from other ships. It's designed to be piloted down to a planet, then left until you are ready to leave the planet. It is not a combat vessel, though it should have turrets to defend itself from minor threats.

    The docking of this ship is most important! It can dock TO CV and BA. (Just like existing SV and HV class) And it can be docked BY SV and HV. (Just like existing CV class) It is VERY important that it can not be docked BY CV or other DVs, because then players can start "stacking" docks within docks within docks. This is one of the most important features of this vessel, since it not only severely limits abuse of awkward design out of the gate, but it also limits the testing and bug fixes for this new feature to mostly just this one new class!

    Limitations on the class would need to be in place to keep it as what it's suppose to be! If you just let CVs dock to CVs you will get some wacky results. This Drop Vessel should be given important limitations to restrict that wackiness away, without at all limiting what the CVs are and can do. (in fact, it gives the CV MORE freedom, by untethering it from planets)

    - Use of CV blocks, (or at least CV style) for simplicity sake.
    - Minimal Speed. Hardly any thruster upgrades. (It can't run away)
    - Reasonable size limitations. They shouldn't be near as unrestricted as CVs, but should be big enough to house multiple large HV/SVs or it's useless.
    - Long idle time. Minimal idle resource consumption.
    - Minimal weapons, but must have turrets. Perhaps remove manual front firing weapons altogether? As long as it has some turrets for self defense. Not the big, hugely damaging Plasma or Artillery turrets though.
    - No mining devices. This ship is a transport ship, not a utility one.
    - No garden plots. This was a hard decision, but it would be unbalancing to the CV/BA class!
    - No warping abilities!
    - Most other things like full sized constructors, fridges, healing stations, clone chambers, etc. ARE available!

    Finally, this ship would also allow the other classes to become more different and distinct! The CV could have more freedom to be a giant space fairing mothership class, the SV could keep it's strong focus on being like a fighter jet, Drop Vessels giving it a nice new slow target to hassle. HVs aren't really effected to much, besides being much easier to deploy onto the surface, which just makes them better at doing what they do.

    -------

    I am a (small indie) game designer myself, and I've made balanced suggestions to developers that made it into games before, including 7 Days to Die! I have a pretty strong grasp of balance, and I've put a lot of thought into this. I think something exactly like this would be the quickest, easiest, most painless solution to a complicated problem that has the potential to be quite painful to both users and developers as it's implemented. As such, most of these suggestions are made for the developers themselves, and may not sound like the ultimate solution you as a player have been looking for, and I apologize if that's the case.
     
    #1
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  2. Frankyln

    Frankyln Rear Admiral

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    I love the idea of a MV/drop ship

    I agree it should only have turrets

    I would also suggest that this class can't have CV FTL capabilities.
     
    #2
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  3. Throttle Kitty

    Throttle Kitty Lieutenant

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    Yeah, no warping is something I meant to add to that list in the first place! Thanks for reminding me!
     
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  4. Throttle Kitty

    Throttle Kitty Lieutenant

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    Aww, I hoped to see some more responses to this by now! :(
     
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  5. ion_storm

    ion_storm Captain

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    Or you can just take your HV with your SV and go...

    Busing ships around is not the main reason i want magnets to behave like... well magnets...
    I want to build stuff, and if it's exploitable... well, i don't really care much about PvPers's comfort...
    They are there for war, and must be ready to fight with everything that exists...
    Last time i checked, the UN still can't change the laws of physics in war zones with a resolution...

    What you describe is just an extremely restricted CV...
    Take a small CV, and you have it right now, and without the restrictions...
    And using CV blocks, it will fit only in big and monster CVs...
     
    #5
  6. N99024

    N99024 Captain

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    Great idea, but what about just making it a block than can only be used on an SV instead?
     
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  7. CirrusMajor

    CirrusMajor Commander

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    Meh... it would clutter the game too much, and it would limit some of the freedom that the building system uses to work. It would be simpler to just mod SVs for dropship capabilities. If there isn't a need for something in the game, then it would just make things useless eg SV passengers.
     
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  8. CmdrFluff

    CmdrFluff Lieutenant

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    I love this suggestion!

    If it doesn't make it into the game proper then I'd love to see it as a mod.
     
    #8
  9. ion_storm

    ion_storm Captain

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    Take the lowest class CV without a warp drive, and you have it already...
     
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  10. CmdrFluff

    CmdrFluff Lieutenant

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    I think you miss the point - yes, we can certainly create a vessel matching the description above but, crucially, it cannot dock to a CV.
     
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  11. Valdimarian

    Valdimarian Commander

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    The other issue is with the new CV blocking option will block that too.


    I had another idea more fitting with a pure 'drop pod' a block you can equip to your HV like the booster that gives you very limited maneuverability in space (like max 10 KPH) and lets you use your RCS to direct descent from orbit like the drop pod at the start. You can't get the HV back up and you can't put a Clone / Medic chamber or Food Processor on the HV, but this gives you a reason to have a base on every planet, especially combined with the option to block CVs from descending into atmo. (Not so great in MP where anything you leave will just get scavenged, but great for the SP story)
     
    #11
  12. CmdrFluff

    CmdrFluff Lieutenant

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    Not necessarily - this would be classed as a "Drop Ship" and not a CV despite being build with CV blocks. Different class of ship.

    I like the drop pod idea but what I really want to be able to do is warp the Sulaco in to orbit, launch the Cheyenne drop ship and then go for a spin in my APC.
     
    #12
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  13. Valdimarian

    Valdimarian Commander

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    Oops, quoted the wrong person, I meant that I agreed with you that just making a CV shell and calling it a drop ship would still hit the "No CVs in Atmosphere" flag.

    I'm pretty sure the Cheyenne is an SV, especially with all the guns it has on it in the movie and the lack of room for things like a medbay. Now, giving an SV the ability to lift HVs might work, especially if they have a relative size limit and require the HV to power down first (otherwise you might end up with someone parking a turret HV on an SV to get around that limitation)
     
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  14. N99024

    N99024 Captain

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    This is what I'm more for, and Powering off the HV before lifting it off would prevent exploitation of using Hv's with just a turret ammo box and generator as a way to put turrets on an SV to get around the idea that a SV should not have a turret to begin with.

    I also feel this should be more of a special core or block in a way that signifies that this specific vessel can lift a HV. Or a SV you want to salvage one or just pick up one because your buddy isn't on. But in a way to make it more fair by adding the mass of whatever is being picked to the Vessels mass and thus effect the vessels performance based on its Total Mass.

    @Hummel-o-War This is a question I'm asking you. It shouldn't be that much code to add on if a new special block type was added that calculates a combined mass for the SV and however many vessels are attached to it and thus adjust the acceleration the vessel can experience right?

    Secondly would Eleon consider putting some work like this into such a feature?

    This is with some more forethought onto it to make it appear a more balance feature, I mean. Imagine if you had to manage some extra thrusters on a Large SV because the amount of mass it has to lift will drastically cut the amount of acceleration it already has.
     
    #14
  15. ion_storm

    ion_storm Captain

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    Well, I'm not against the idea, I just want more...
    I like those mini cargos, fridges, etc. but i don't like them to have cockpit, thrusters, RCS attached all the time, it's a waste of space...
    I also don't like cockpit, thrusters, RCS to be outside and to have to assemble/disassemble every time i want to move them...
    I want to be able to build a small mover wich docks to them, takes control over their docking pads and moves them...
    Maybe this will require docking pads to engage manually...
    Like a forklift but with magnets...
    If the magnets behave like they should we can build many different contraptions...
    Now they are crippled to almost uselessness, like so many other things, because "exploits"...

    However, even this is better than nothing i guess...
    So, as I see it, we're talking about another kind of vessel with it's own starter and under it's own rules for devices and weapons...
    I think it shold be SV blocks and SV max size...
     
    #15
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  16. ITguy1981

    ITguy1981 Captain

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    I was thinking of something similar. It would be nice to be able to move containers without having to empty them. I've also thought it would be nice to have some sort of docking block to put on things you would like to pick up and have a manual way of locking it. This way you could fly over HVs, SVs, containers, that have the dock on them and you can fly down from above and then lock them in place. This would require both a specific block on both ships. This way you can drop ships or cargo from the control of the mother ship. Now that we have triggers you could even assign a lever for each docking mechanism to lock and unlock whatever it's attached to. I'll see if I can work-up some king of picture.
     
    #16
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
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  17. SacredGlade

    SacredGlade Captain

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    #17
  18. catalina

    catalina Commander

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    might be a cool Idea, in early game to take you to the moon. Maybe it could be like a taxi you pay a fee for
     
    #18
  19. Repier

    Repier Commander

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    How about a HV teleportation device. I know it's a bit off topic but the goal is the same: bringing down HV on planets without landing a CV.

    It would be a device available for CV only and usable through the control panel. Once in range of a planet (let's say 1km for example) you could select a docked HV on your CV and "warp it" to the planet atmosphere. There would be a count down to give you enough time to sit in the HV.
    The HV would appear in the atmosphere of the planet, like the drop pod at the beginning of the game. You could affect the trajectory exactly like the drop pod. The device would draw a lot of power like the repair bay and would use a small amount of warp fuel.

    Biggest drawback: no way back unless there's a simple way to implement it. (teleporting back may pose some problem like HV stuck in CV).
     
    #19
  20. Valdimarian

    Valdimarian Commander

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    This gives me an idea that might work for the return trip: a teleporter pad mounted in the Trade Station.
    Get your HV to the Trade Station and you can teleport it into orbit, from there you can shuffle it to your ship. If you want to just get it to the trade station then you can teleport back down too.
     
    #20

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