Food for thought...

Discussion in 'Other Discussion' started by Kassonnade, Oct 15, 2021.

  1. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Last June, the US Department of Defence issued a report regarding its AATIP program (Andvanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program) to the Congress, revealing that out of some 140+ "events" only one could be explained as a "weather balloon", and the others falling into "other categories". One of the desired effects of this very unrevealing "disclosure" was to remove the stigma associated with UFO reporting and to allow some serious investigations to be done, now that the US military had acknowledged, to some extent, that these phenomenon could pose a threat to national security.

    Of course there are all kinds of theories regarding the intelligence deemed in control of whatever people can witness. I stumbled across some very interesting stuff recently when looking a bit deeper into this topic, which like most people I only knew superficially prior to the June US DoD report.

    Here is an interview with Chris Mellon, former Pentagon official, in relation to UFO sightings in Canada and USA :



    A video featuring Luis Elizondo, former AATIP director :



    Here's one "cute" example of "cutting edge technology" retrieved from a UFO site:



    For those who may want a more in-depth "briefing" on this, I can recommend these two videos:

    This is a presentation from George Knapp, investigative reporter, who has done a very good job of trying to get the facts among the immense volume of crap that pollutes this topic :



    And this is a more "general public" documentary, featuring some of the government actors that tried to get the Pentagon and DoD to be more "collaborative" on this issue :



    .
     
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  2. Kaeser

    Kaeser Rear Admiral

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    Last year this image was made public, the "First Ever Image of a Multi-Planet System around a Sun-like Star Captured by ESO Telescope"

    [​IMG]

    https://www.eso.org/public/images/eso2011b/


    We as a species are monitoring the stars and planets around us and there is no guarantee they are not doing the same and just happen to have a better tech....
     
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  3. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Yup. But the main reason why they changed UFO for UAP was that althought being "unidentified" some phenomenon were clearly not "vehicle -based" or merely "objects", hense the new "Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon". Some of these DoD guys are very careful not to make any assumptions regarding the origins of the various UFOs/ UAPs reported, because there have been many reports of these happening underwater, and some "objects" were also seen travelling from space to low aerial flight, then into water. Some reports show the other way around, from water to air to space. Some of these things appear out of nowhere, disappear, and many credible mass sightings show that althought it is unrealistic to believe that these are organized "collective hoaxes" something really happened, but the differences in the perceived events suggest that these things may be playing tricks with the observer's minds.

    So it's not as clear-cut as "they come from another planet" as popular culture would tend to believe. If these were simply beings from other planets, it is strange that they try to remain so elusive, yet they seem to enjoy hanging around military facilities where they have the most chances of being detected.

    Another interesting tidbit is that althought these things have been happening for millenia, there has been a clear augmentation of activity since the end of WW2, when the first atomic devices were tested and detonated, and there seems to be a relation between this activity and the nuclear warfare of not only the USA but all other nuclear-capable countries.

    Here's a short video about one of the leading UFO researchers, Jacques Vallée (see video #3 in my first post) that sheds some light on some of the less known aspects of the topic :

     
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  4. Kaeser

    Kaeser Rear Admiral

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    That is a curious concept.....

    So... what? Atlantis?....

    I mean, if these things were from earth, whatever they are they would already be in charge

    These things would most likely be probes like the ones sent to mars
     
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  5. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    They may not be "from Earth" and then they may be. They may simply have some bases underwater, because it's the only place we didn't search thouroughly because we had no means to until recently, while we can map Mars and all other "rocky bodies" near us. We know very little of what's going on in the seas, at 4km + depths and total darkness.

    And then maybe this is just another way to puzzle us as to where they are from, or they just want to navigate around undetected.

    There are some official reports of these UFOs disabling ICBM in both the US and Russia, absolutely nagging the military doing so, showing themselves and testing human reactions. This is briefly mentioned in the first video above by Chris Mellon. They are also bugging navy pilots during wargames on a regular basis, which is why some guys at the Pentagon decided it was time the military brass started to take things more seriously and make structured investigations.

    In the video with George Knapp, you will hear him mention that at some point in his research he found a Navy Pilot instructions manual, where there was a specific section regarding " UFO encounters" describing something like " UFOs are real and you will encounter these commonly during your flights - There are 5 known alien species that have been visiting us for the past 50 000 years " and some other details. He then proceeded to validate this with the Department of Defense, which of course denied this. This section had been removed in all following editions of the same manual.

    Robert Bigelow, from Bigelow Aerospace (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bigelow) has also quite a few interesting stories regarding UFOs and some mysterious links to paranormal phenomenon related to these. Cattle mutilation is one of these : tens of thousands of cases of dead cows and domestic animals with surgical cuts, not an atom of blood in them or on the ground, no traces, nothing. These happen in conjunction with "orbs of light" types of UFOs, and despites years of investigation by the authorities, they never caught anyone nor any trail.

    Bigelow used to own the Skinwalker Ranch, a so-called "hotspot" for UFO and paranormal stuff, and helped facilitate the work of various government investigators, but he sold it out of frustration after feeling that these "things" were playing hide-and-seek with them, and very elaborate pranks.

    We tend to over-simplify what thousand-years-more-advanced "people" could be capable of, and we "humanize" their intents and behaviors. This leads us to simplistic interpretations of events and their possible intents. Right now, all we can say is that they play with the military and show them they can do tricks we can't, and the various witnesses which come in close contact of some "beings" have also tricks played with their brains and memory, and sometimes physical trauma. Why would cool aliens do that to some of us ? Thousands of years of tech and evolution, yet unable to prevent this ?

    The simple idea of having very advanced species visiting us in conventional "transportation" just to remain hidden from the public but still overtly bug the military, this does not really fit the "space explorer" theory.

    I just saw your edit after I did mine. Yes, this is another possibility, but this would only explain one type of UFO sightings. In many witnesses accounts, a larger "mother" UFO has been seen launching smaller spherical "light orbs" that would zip around and perform all kinds of maneuvers, "merge" together, split apart, etc.
     
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  6. Kaeser

    Kaeser Rear Admiral

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    Well, radars and thermal imaging I believe, personal testimonies and fuzzy pictures, it's just folklore to me and cattle?.... I don't know, did they stop for a burger?....

    I found it hard to believe actual aliens were ever on earth, alien probes and drones, maybe.....

    But with all that's been happening in the last two years, everything is on the cards really.....
     
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  7. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    That is exactly why the "officials" are so reluctant to be specific about the "intelligence" behind these events, because that's about the only safe speculation that can be done without falling into a rabbit hole. I watched tons of videos and read a lot, and I still can't make up my mind.

    Some statements do stand out of the lot though, and some stories are compelling enough to make it plausible that some non-human beings have made contact with humans, even though the motives are unclear and testimonies leave lots of blurry spaces.

    Here are two short clips showing unexplained things, yet the videos were deemed authentical :

    UFO over Kremlin :



    UFO seen from commercial airplane :



    And here, a short story of an event that happened in 1994 in Zimbabwe, at Ariel elementary school. This event is one of the few that had some serious credibility checks, given the number of witnesses and the circumstances :

    Ariel school landing :



    And this other one, in Melbourne, Australia (only ship was sighted) :



    Now the "existence of UFOs" seems clearly established, since the US officialized this recently, but the admissions stop there. The ship described by the witnesses in the last video has similarities with the classical "flying saucer" which, according to tons of reports, are not "drones" but actual "piloted vehicles" from where "beings" come out sometimes.

    Here is a short preview clip for a documentary (Countdown to Disclosure) by Dr. Steven Greer, which shows a very different picture of the topic :



    This guy is either on to something revolutionary, or he's completely nuts...

    In the video I linked in message #3, Jacques Vallée puts forward a theory he developed in several books : these "entities" have been influencing humanity since the ancient times in various ways, always adapting the "content" of their "messages" to the epoch's context regarding general knowledge, culture and technology. Their influence is subtle, through actions that end up - like you mention - in folklore and legends, which in more contemporary times equates to "high tech and aliens" since this is what most people can relate to thanks to popular lore spread in TV and movies. The author does not speculate on their nature, he only suggests a theory regarding their intents.

    And by judging from all the content that I have found up to now, I think this explaination holds pretty well. People have no real clue about who or what these "beings" could be or what they really want, but there is no doubt that they exist and definitely influence the course of our actions, either out of fear or wonder.

    When asked by Luis Elizondo (former AATIP Director) about the nature of these beings, a top officer "in the secret" simply answered him "They are demonic! " in a very stern tone, with a clear "Don't ask me about this ever again" to end the conversation. Elizondo used this to illustrate how deeply the religious background of some top ranking DoD and Pentagon officers could play a role in how the military apparatus was considering this topic. This belief is also shared by numerous "ordinary" people, and inversely, many "believers" think these beings could be angels or the "ancient Gods" (Annunaki) or even the Elohim mentioned in the Bible.

    Dr. Steven Greer goes further than this. Beware, this is crazy stuff. Just bear in mind what I mentioned regarding the theory put forward by Jacques Vallée when watching this :



    Now this is stepping over the red line big time. Dr. Greer bluntly accuses the US government of being responsible of abductions and of having succesfully reverse-engineered alien tech, now used to manufacture a planetary hoax to have the aliens be perceived as "enemies" by the general population.

    But neither Greer nor the military know the truth. So... what if Jacques Vallée is right, and these "beings" are only doing what they planned to do, and they have Greer "believe" they are the good guys, and the military genuinely believe they are after their nuclear power and must be considered as a threat ? What would be the consequences of having a part of the population siding with the military on this, and the other part side with "the good aliens" ? Why would such advanced species make such huge blunders as to cause massive division in the population ? Development of foreign policy and strategy would be inversely proportional to technological development after a few millenia of evolution ?

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  8. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Here, lots of "answers" but probably not what most people would expect. I can hardly believe that someone would go through so much trouble without any kind of certainty.

     
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  9. Stampy

    Stampy Lieutenant

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    All of these sort of things are from an American (and sometime sprinkled with some Russian for flavor) perspective. I'd be interested in seeing something from European, South American, Asian or African perspectives.

    Sometimes I feel like these sort of things (either side of the argument, for or against) are purely entertainment bullshit. It can be intriguing; Fermi Paradox and Drake Equation stuff is fascinating but one perspective over an over gets old.
     
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  10. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    The last 3 videos in my first post show different perspectives, at least not an america-centrist defense BS. Jacques Vallée (3rd video) is a French researcher with a solid sciences background. The 4th video is George Knapp, who got some interesting tidbits from other countries during his research, and the 5th video shows in part how the French autorities deal with this topic at least since 1977.

    In post #7 I link a video from Australia, one is about an event that happened in Zimbabwe in 1994 and the very first one is from Europe.

    There is one interesting analysis done by the Gravitas channel, and I thin k it's from India, but it's mostly one person making a long analysis, and honestly what she says is already pretty much all covered in the various links I gave here.
     
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  11. Stampy

    Stampy Lieutenant

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    Thanks, I honestly only watched the Cosmic Hoax video. I'll check out the others, too.
     
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  12. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Apart from the first 2 videos in the first post and the "cosmic hoax" stuff which sounds a bit far fetched, all the other videos are the best I could find on the topic after watching litterally hundreds.

    I would say that despites being only one guy (George Knapp) talking for more than one hour, the video "A Behind The Scenes Look At Area 51 With George Knapp" is - in my view - the most interesting one. He is very well know in that field, but also in general because he did a very good job as an investigative reporter on various subjects other than UFOs, and still does.

    And the most interesting part of the video, IMO, is at 1:15:31 but I really think this video is worth watching in its entirety, even if it doesn't have all the cool UFO footage and dramatic music. I also chose these videos based on feedback from people I know who knew nothing about the topic to have an "outsider" opinion on what they enjoyed most and found most informative. The video in post #3 is also very good, and not very long.

    Here is a link to one peculiar website:

    https://boblazar.com/

    It's only one page, but it's from Bob Lazar, and I recommend checking this first, to get some background on what will be mentioned in the George Knapp video on Area 51. Note that Wikipedia does a good attempt at discrediting Bob Lazar, but George Knapp validated some of Lazar's claims quite easily so just another proof of the heavy bias of wikipedia on some specific topics once again...
    .
     
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  13. Stampy

    Stampy Lieutenant

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    Bob Lazar does a good job discrediting himself; he doesn't need to worry about Wikipedia. When I was in school (30 years ago) there was a Bob Lazar video circulating; I think I still have the VHS (but no player haha). I watched it many times, sharing it with friends (he starts the video by driving through the desert in a Corvette). In the video Bob talked about the propulsion system, saying he didn't have access to other parts, talked about the classified briefings he received to better understand how the propulsion worked, etc. The focus was on element 115, which at the time was not on the periodic table. The element was actually discovered by Russian scientists about 20 years ago, and added to the periodic table about 10 years ago I think. Problem is - it's absolutely nothing like what Bob claimed he studied. He talked about atomic structure, properties, etc., but was completely wrong. Actual element 115 decays in less than a second and is completely unstable as are most of the elements past 100ish on the table. Most recently I saw another Bob Lazar special, where he focused his narrative on parts of the vehicle he had previously claimed he was not allowed to view or learn about. Surely they didn't give him access again 20 years later, so it calls into question everything he has ever said.

    Regardless, I plan to watch the other videos. This topic is always fascinating. One of my favorite topics is the Fermi paradox; surely there has to be something out there, we just haven't been paying attention or had the technology long enough, if we even have it now.
     
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  14. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    I watched a Joe Rogan podcast with Bob Lazar and Jeremy Corbell as guests, and Lazar's replies to this being simply that they id not synthetize the proper isotope yet. You can easily find that podcast I think, but George Knapp's presentation also addresses that and much more. One funny coincidence is that if one looks at the "gimbal" video, one of the 3 videos released and "authentified" by the pentagon, the "thing" caught by the pilots instruments looks very similar to the shapes of the "fields" depicted on Bob Lazar's site (pear shape) along with the corresponding "tilt" of the "craft" going forward against the wind.

    But besides that, do you happen to have the title of that video tape ? You got me curious now and I would like to find more about it. Surely there are traces of this on the web. ^^

    Right. We listen to radio signals but that is surely very obsolete for advanced civilisations. By the way UFOs move in atmosphere with insane speeds and acceleration which defy the laws of physics, it's obvious they are using something we have no clue about for propulsion and might be doing the same for data transmission. So listening to radio signals might just be listening to wind in that context.
     
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  15. Stampy

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    Found it on youtube! It has portuguese subtitles, but aside from that this is the video I saw decades ago.

     
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  16. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Oh soooo cool ! Thanks a lot !

    After watching it I tried "finding" it and it's very hard, it popped in none of the results of my searches, at least not in the first pages.

    Here is the Joe Rogan podcast with Bob Lazar :



    It's a bit long, I know, and Rogan often goes tangential instead of focusing on his guest. There are many more relevant questions he could have asked, but with the video you provided me up here it links well together.

    Bob Lazar made it clear that he only relays the information he either saw first hand or read in various documents. He nevers asserts they are "true informations" and explains that in compartimentalized research like what is the case here, it is customary to give false information to participants to prevent them from piecing things together and then opening the door to dangerous leaks. It can also be a "trick" they use to track down the source of the leak. I'm not talking about all the "science" behind gravitational propulsion and all that stuff, but about the aliens, their origins and the last part of the video. He expands on this in the Joe Rogan podcast like I already mentioned and it all makes sense.

    George Knapp and the few other people who really knew Bob Lazar were all pretty much convinced he was telling the truth about what he did at Area 51 - S4, and up to now they haven't changed their opinion. I can only point once again to the George Knapp video linked in my first post for this part, and also the Joe Rogan podcast.

    Of course Bob Lazar does not have all the answers, he even mentions there can be many other alien species, but the ones he's talking about in his video are only one type, that supposedly come from Zeta Reticuli. He expands on that too in the Rogan podcast, so I will not repeat everything. It's unfortunate that some of the best known UFO researchers took all what he said at face value and from there went on repeating everywhere, in conferences and books, that "the greys come from Zeta Reticuli" and completely forgetting about Bob Lazar's warning that he only exposed what he saw, without any way to know what was true and what was not (apart from the research part he did).
     
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  17. jadefalcon

    jadefalcon Captain

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    I watched quite a bit of this recently during the lockdown and found a lot of it quite compelling.
    Some of the people reporting abductions etc are almost certainly "quacks" but there seems to be more and more evidence coming from legitimate sources.





    I'm sure he had Chris Mellon on at some point as well but I think that may be in spotify now as well.


    The Ariel school incident was another that was quite compelling given the consistency of the story among all that experienced it.
    It first heard about that one from this documentary....quite good if you've not seen it.


    https://fmovies.ps/movie/watch-the-phenomenon-online-66483
     
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  18. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Yes, I saw Chris Mellon on Rogan's show, but they got into a mini-argument about Bob Lazar and stuff, and told each other "I will tell you more offline" so was a bit of a bummer...

    I'm checking your link right now. Thanks ! :)

    ==================================================

    Ok. That was a very good video. It contains almost all of the above, apart from the "exotic" ones from Steven Greer. It also contains very good original footage from the various subjects, and some exclusive parts that are only hinted to in the other links I provided myself.

    That's a pretty good addition to the subject my friend. Thanks again !
     
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