Furniture, hotels and improving survival elements

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Average, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. Average

    Average Commander

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    Firstly, not everyone wants multiple survival elements, so make these things server configurable and not compulsory!

    Survival elements limited, furniture mostly useless

    However, for those into survival games, there is a bit of a lack of survival attributes to manage. On a friendly planet, there might only be HP and food, which is very easy just by picking up vegies or cooking meat. It would be great to extend the complexity of survival play to cover more conditions and statuses.

    Also, furniture currently has no purpose. It's mostly just there for looks, but you probably won't have a gameplay reason to come admire it anyway. In fact, with wifi/logistics, there's much less gameplay reasons to ever visit inside of your ship at all!

    My suggestion is to kill two birds with one stone - add more status effects/conditions/timers, and add more instances where furniture can be used to deal with them.

    Benefits to change:
    • Low dev cost - This is a low-cost change from a development point of view, as it's just a series of counters that degrade at various rates, plus a few simple sound effects.
    • Improved survival gameplay - More stuff to do, especially early game where things are a bit grindy. Improve challenge considering this a survival game.
    • Furniture actually has a gameplay purpose
    • Immersion/roleplay - Why doesn't a spaceship need a proper galley/toilets/facilities???
    • Interior design matters - Designers need to think about internal layout of their space station/ship. They need to decide if they include the furniture in their ship's limited space, or just wait until they arrive home. You might also give furniture a recharge so that multiple passengers might need their own facilities
    • Space Hotels!!! + social encounters - There is now a gameplay reason to visit other people's stations when travelling away from your home. There's also a reason for admins and even other players to build interesting stations to visit that offer these facilities. If there was an option for a paid door entry mechanism, even better! All this incentivises aesthetically focused BA design that people have a gameplay-based reason to view and share with others.

    Status effects and facilities to add

    Here's the status effects and actual facilities that either exist or could be added to achieve this, arranged from most frequently required to least:
    • Hydration - Water fountain
    • Food - Fridge (implemented)
    • Bodily waste - Toilet (needs change)
    • Fatigue - Bed
    • Cleanliness - Wash basin, shower (needs change)
    • Morale - TV, stand near other characters
    • Medical (implemented)
    Further suggestions:

    • You might have mobile/disposable/consumable versions of each (eg. stims instead of bed?), but they take up space in your inventory and are more expensive.
    • Better tiers of furniture might recharge faster. Have to select/stand near to recharge.
    • Make food last longer but be harder to fill up, while also making complex cooked meals harder to make but much more filling (currently I only ever spam RPs or EBs).
    • If you were getting serious about the survival, design and immersive elements you could include small fillable water tanks in ship/base design.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  2. IndigoWyrd

    IndigoWyrd Rear Admiral

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    Water storage.. hmm... I could see some use for this, except...

    The Portable Condenser does a wonderful job of producing both water and canned air, and Water Extractor produces delightful "cases" of water. A water tank on a CV might prove somewhat handy though.

    There are a delightful number of status ailments already, though most are a result of either eating raw/uncooked foods, or as a result of combat. More ways to contract status ailments would make things more interesting - trudging through swamps as a means of picking parasites, or infected zones that simply have a chance of causing some manner of ailment for example.

    Otherwise, once you unlock light armor, you generally spend most all your time running about in a sealed suit, and your likelihood of catching anything drops to pretty close to zero. I'd even support enemies poisoning weapons or using infected munitions as means of causing late-game ailments.

    Physical blows from large, powerful enemies should have increased chances of causing Broken Bones, or even Mutilation status, armored or not.
     
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  3. Average

    Average Commander

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    Realistically the amount of water required for personal use is very very small, but perhaps in space, where you can't harvest from atmo using condenser, it could be a significant concern. That might be stretching it. My main focus would be on making furniture functional so there's reason to use the inside of everyone's beautiful ships and bases. Water tanks that need hand filling would really just act as an excuse for that and some fun watery sound effects (I often hit the shower and toilet block activation as I walk past just because the sounds are amusing). In the end the question I want to address is "I spent all this time making a cool looking base / ship, but there's no real reason for anyone to come and visit", to encourage more social play in MP.

    As it stands, typically in most games status ailments have an effect on my gameplay only in the first few hours when I'm scrounging for early supplies or doing POIs on foot. As soon as I'm in a SV the fastest levelling up is often patrolling for Zirax infantry, and once I'm in a CV the best source of 95% of resources is space mining. Plus, I typically have 10x more food than I need as soon as a I get a few plots. So the status ailment system doesn't really get used.

    For those into survival gameplay mechanism, it might be great for that sort of thing to still matter later in the game, and for it to integrate into space gameplay and visiting other ships and bases better. I think above system could help with that a lot.
     
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  4. Demonic

    Demonic Captain

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    Water might be an interesting thing to track and stock up for plants. Right now, you just build plot, plant the plant (provide o2 and sealed environement) and you're set. Nothing interesting about it just a special building block and the usual requirements for all CVs/BAs really. The plants grow out of the thin air. It would be interesting if you had to water your plants, it would make growing plants a little bit more difficult and EGS a little bit more survival.
     
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  5. Average

    Average Commander

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  6. IndigoWyrd

    IndigoWyrd Rear Admiral

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    Why not both? Hand water plants until you can build a hydration system. Then build a water tank, fill it, and add a "sprinkler" block that provides water for your plants automatically, much like a ventilator provides oxygen.
     
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  7. Demonic

    Demonic Captain

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    This. :) Thank you for answering for me with the exact answer I'd use.
     
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  8. IndigoWyrd

    IndigoWyrd Rear Admiral

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    If you want to go extra-fancy, kick it up a tier afterwards and replace your old grow plots with Hyroponic Beds that provide higher yields per plant.
     
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  9. Josey Wales

    Josey Wales Ensign

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    @Average this is great, I'm pretty new to the game so haven't thought about it as much but what you've laid out here is golden. I'm, a big fan of the Long Dark and find it really immersive managing the various factors. I think this game would benefit immensely from the ideas you've presented here and really like the idea of hygiene being a thing you have to manage alongside hunger, fatigue etc.

    Like you say, they've got most of the models built, all that's required is a mechanic behind them. I'd also like to see items such as a shower, toilet etc to not be interchangeable. I've seen a couple of playthroughs where the player has a toilet and needs a shower so just recovers the toilet block and turns it into a shower. This is a bit gamey and it makes more sense to have these as non-interchangeable items which as you rightly suggest will incorporate more thought into CV and base design.
     
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  10. Foofaspoon

    Foofaspoon Commander

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    These sound good ideas - more interaction as well. You could also have it that some give buffs, rather than just removing effects. For example sleeping could give a bonus the 'nicer' the bed. A bit like Skyrim's rested / well rested effects. Nothing major, but say improvements to stamina recovery / food consumption etc for X hours. In Single player sleeping could act as a shift time forward (perhaps again like Skyrim allowing some control, rather than just sleeping at night?) In multiplayer guess it could give bonuses if logged out while 'sleeping' after a certain time (obviously after we get persistent bodies!!)
     
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  11. Average

    Average Commander

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    Agreed that would add an interesting element and give good reasons to get more expensive furniture. Someone in another thread recently suggested the cryo chamber could function similar to how you suggest for bed, so that if you log out and your buddies fly the shared CV away you wake up still in the ship instead of floating in space.
     
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  12. Foofaspoon

    Foofaspoon Commander

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    You could also (depending on how much detail would be useful) give slightly different uses - so for example a cryopod acts like a bed but you don't get any buffs but food and oxygen isn't depleted, whereas for a bed you get the buffs, but there is slow depletion of things. Means you've got an option (e.g. cryo might be better if you want to zoom time forward a lot, waiting for the factory to build something)
     
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  13. Nerd01

    Nerd01 Commander

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    Good idea, but I have objections to "configurable" thing.

    Democracy and respecting others opinions are good things, but we are really overdoing it by trying to apply it here on everything. You cant make every single game dynamic you dont like configurable. What is the point of making the effort to put something in game if some people wont even bother to try it? This is no different from any situation in which people have to work together to accomplish something, and Eleon is like the leader of that group. A good leader listens to the suggestions provided, but if you try to make everyone happy, you will end up making no one happy, and end up accomplishing nothing. If there is a task to be completed, you have to make a choice. For example, all of the military forces of the planet use hierarchy for their command structure for a reason, because it works. If you make it "optional" for troops, or open a pool to troops to vote on wars, you probably end up losing those wars. Democracy is good for open ended decisions which you can change later based on discussions, but if you have to put something solid into existence like in this case, you cant really use it.
     
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  14. Average

    Average Commander

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    I take your point that casual opinion is a poor leader, but on the other hand, individual choice can allow innovation and cater to a wider set of needs. Probably a balance is needed. Certain features, like PvP or farming for example, are going to be both loved and hated with good reason, while others like the block building is something that everyone here needs to learn to play. I feel better furniture/survival mechanics would be a great addition, but I do think it fits into the first category, and unlike PvP or farming, there would be no avoiding it through gameplay decisions. If the choice was between compulsory or not at all, perhaps then. But I can't see a big downside to making it optional, either for gameplay or for development. I also like that I could log into different servers and try a slightly different experience of the game. So optional is what I favour in this case.
     
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  15. Nerd01

    Nerd01 Commander

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    Downside is once you start doing it, you have to do it for everything. We already have 2 optional features we can enable or disable; logistics and cpu. These change the game in a major way, having an huge impact on how you play the game and change the narrative of the game entirely. What you suggest will bring more "options" which have to be maintained separately, you will soon have to make changes in the game for players play with these options on and off. So It is possible any future update has to be compatible with 4 different versions of the game. And you want more of them. This is not manageable for the long run, if there is no cohesion for the task you want to complete you will end up doing nothing.

    Note: I am not a fan of cpu but I am fine with it for the reasons above.
     
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  16. Average

    Average Commander

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    Some things should be standard for cohesion, sure, but I don't think that should be the case for everything. Why not consider features on a case by case basis? What specific harm or extra maintenance do you see would be created by some servers having these survival features enabled and some not having it enabled, as opposed to all servers having it standard?
     
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  17. Nerd01

    Nerd01 Commander

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    I am not the extreme case here, I am not asking for every single issue to be solved this way. Dont take this wrong way, but it seems like you never had to manage several tasks with deadline, otherwise you would know what I am talking about. You say it yourself, this will cause extra maintenance. They will have to spend more time on things, which will increase workload and the time needed for each update. It is not sustainable, especially if you add more optional features. I shouldnt even need to explain this.
     
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  18. Josey Wales

    Josey Wales Ensign

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    As a newcomer it does seem odd to me that CPU limit and M/V are optional. I've no history of the game prior to these features so I play with them on and enjoy them. I can't think of a game that has put more effort into logistics and inventory management than this one. You have container controllers, extenders, wifi, the virtual toolbar and the ability to move stuff from A to B just by using a drop down menu. This is all designed to make the 'limitations caused by M/V being enabled' to be gotten around through crafting and gameplay. I applaud the devs for this.

    I have to agree with @Nerd01 's points. By looking through these forums it seems as if having these mechanics as optional offends everyone. Those who do like them don't like the fact that they're optional and those who don't like them also don't like that they're optional. The devs job will be made more difficult as time goes on as some updates will either directly or indirectly affect these 'optional' mechanics. Therefore the devs will have to consider the outcome of each update on each possible playstyle which will quickly get exponentially more difficult the more mechanics they have as optional.

    I think the devs need to be brave here and make a decision as to how they want their game to develop based on their own vision. There is an argument against being 'too democratic' and sometimes leadership and vision are required.

    Perhaps the solution is to break the 'Survival' mode down into sub modes in the same way that the Long Dark breaks the experience down into 'Voyager/Interloper/Stalker'. For EGS, on the hardest settings all of the mechanics would be set to true (and cannot be changed) with some additional survival elements like the ones suggested in the OP. The easiest setting would have the optional mechanics set to off (and cannot be changed) and the survival elements would be very basic.
     
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    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  19. Average

    Average Commander

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    Seems passive-aggressive and an oddly personal claim to make, but hey let's agree to disagree.
     
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  20. Average

    Average Commander

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    I agree that's true for some features, but I don't think that's the case of furniture/survival elements. It's not tied into other game elements in the same way as something like CPU, which heavily influences ship layout, number of guns, various aspects of balance etc etc, so I don't think there would be a significant maintenance cost in considering servers having it enabled and some not. And there's advantages to opening things up to server owners, like for example I noticed Vermillion is doing some crazy experiments creating flamethrowers and grenade launchers at the moment, thanks to the new customization that's been allowed.

    IDK, it was a off-hand comment that's maybe 2% of my post, I'm happy to 'agree to disagree' as it wasn't my main focus.
     
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    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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