How can this game become more popular?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by spacefarmer, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. spacefarmer

    spacefarmer Captain

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    I'm just curious if anyone has any thoughts on why this game hasn't become more popular, and what needs to happen for that to become so. It's confusing to me, because some of the most popular games on steam are survival games like Ark and Rust, so I'm trying to figure out why it is that this game hasn't grown to greater popularity, while a game like Space Engineers which has much less survival mechanics has. Is it perhaps just the fact that the game is in alpha, or is there something else you think needs to happen to grow the player base?
     
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  2. Furious Hellfire

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    I will tell you why I think its not as popular as you would think, empyrion galactic survival does not have large multiplayer capability yet.
    Servers can tolerate max 8 people before they spaz about and that's with 2 million english pounds worth of hardware.

    Sure you will see servers with 100 + people in there, but the starter planets are unplayable and lagged out, bikes not working, hv not working, and then even a server with a small population restart their server every 2 hours because of how unstable the server dedi is with just a few people connected to it.

    Also the couple of thousand players who played it already and bailed out to never return have no doubt shared the word across various social media platforms to all their pals saying egs is shit multiplayer experience because they came and tried it and joined all the verified servers which are all example of overloaded player limits and codebase and of what not to do with an EGS server.
    Verified servers are the most unstable servers lol...

    At best this game is a small 2-8 man group coop game and even then its still unstable.
    I have never known a game that required such mass use of hardware to run a server.

    The more playfields or players you expect to have, the more ram the server needs.
    Like a gig of ram at least per active playfield so if 20 players were in different playfields you need minimum 20g of ram available to accommodate that.

    This means maybe 85% of players will never hope to be able to host their own server without paying for a host which will then cost a bomb because of the server ram requirements and all for what, pure instability lost ships floating in space freezing, constant messages of of help me bug in servers.

    You join another server and always bugs and problems and most people try to make their own server eventually because no server can be relied on !

    This game does not exist in the multiplayer gaming world as far as legit professional multiplayer gaming is concerned.
    Most of the empty servers you see in the list are people buying a subscription from nitrado, quitting after 1 day when they realise what a ballache it is to make a custom server scenario server and letting the purchased server sit in the list till it runs out.

    Probably the best single player game i have ever played in my life, but multiplayer here is in a basic form and not suitable for mass online play, the code simply cannot withstand it.

    Maybe 1 day ! but not today.
     
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  3. spacefarmer

    spacefarmer Captain

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    Eh, I don't think that's it. On one hand, space engineers multiplayer was a horrible mess up untill less than a month ago. Even now, there are lag spikes, connection problems, desynching, etc etc. Still, their all time high was 20k+ players, they average 3-4k daily, and they regularly get a high of 10k whenever a new update comes out. Compare this to Empyrion whose all time high was only 7k just this past year with 8.0, and they only got close to that one time in the past, plus their daily averate is only around 2-3k. On the other hand, I would disagree that multiplayer is as bad as you say it is. Especially on some of the most well run and largest servers, like HWS, it is very smooth, and has no issues that I've seen. I just started a new game on there yesterday, and it was perfectly fine. I think the bigger planets help with that, since people are much more spread out now.

    Not sure why you think people have come and gone. Again, looking at the numbers just two years ago, there was 5-600 players on average. Now there's 1.5-3k. With the release of 8.0, there was a new high. It's definitely grown, over the years, but not as great as other games, and again, given the survival focus, and the popularity of the survival and space sim genre, it's quite confusing. As I said above, multiplayer is not a good explaination for why it is not as popular, as the multiplayer I've experience has been very stable, especially compared to other games. So I don't think your explaination holds water.
     
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  4. Damocles

    Damocles Captain

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    There are so many other (good) games out there on the market, that have not reached any popularity near what Empyrion has.

    There is a lot of luck involved, exposure by media / game reviewers, hypes, hitting a trend etc, to get people aware of a game, and to get traction on the market.

    Empyrion did quite decent here, even if some other games had reached more sales and public awareness.

    Its more interesting to know how many player Empyrion can keep interested, once they have purchased the game at one point.
    (Here it also helps to keep the game in development, to promise more content and improvements in the future).
     
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  5. Furious Hellfire

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    I started a new survival game in HWS only 3 weeks ago only to find the bike did not work, the hv's did not work, they sank every few feet of water you cross, the server or that particular starter playfield rather was having severe lag issues which everyone in it was complaining about, and the answers given by members were that the playfield was probably overloaded, therefore unplayable as I stated.
    I was attacking creatures who would not die but they could kill me thats how the lag was going, maybe it was a bad week or a bad playfield that is now fixed but the impression i got for my 4 days there was that this was commonplace. my ping was 23 xD my connection was most beautiful at the time.

    I have not been in all servers that are verified but the impression that I have gotten from the few that I tried in the last 2 months was quite frankly shocking.

    Sure the first guys in these servers who break out into the galaxy will have a smoother experience.
    The players who come afterwards and end up all jammed in the starter planets have to go through shocking ridiculousness.
    HWS and another server I tried put me off joining any further large multiplayer servers until final release because they were demonstrating to me that the server or playfields had limits that are not being observed and as such ruining online multiplayer survival experiences.

    I suppose there is a yet unknown limit to how many players can actively run in one playfield, I don't suppose anyone knows that limit do they ? or know if large multiplayer servers either fail to respect that limit or are just not aware of it because clearly it is one or the other !

    I love this game but once bitten twice as shy, well i got bitten a couple of times by the VERIFIED server list and so no more joining verified servers for me !

    Absolute waste of my time.
     
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  6. Furious Hellfire

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    About making the game more popular, I dont think Eleon have gone all out with advertising yet, they might invest more into it closer to release, with more inspiring videos and such displaying all the current features we have by then.

    This is a wonderful one of a kind game and I too have wondered why not more people have got it, I know its not all down to server instability but that does play a huge part in the public consciousness when seeking a multiplayer game, but even as a single player survival game EGS this should be hugely popular, its creative outlet alone is a lot of fun, the survival and exploration aspect is brilliant.
    The game looks beautiful and has gotten better and better with each patch release, the team are clearly hard at work but I know they have some tough challenges ahead.

    I think it just needs more press but I think a lot of things need to be fixed especially in MP before they try and attract larger audiences, Eleon may already know this.

    If you ask me adding a new craft type WV for subs and boats would be awesome and would potentially attract a few marine enthusiasts into this galactic survival game especially with the abundance of water we can have now.
     
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  7. RexXxuS

    RexXxuS Administrator
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    I am also interested in bringing more players to Empyrion and wondered this myself.
    I think the biggest issues are:
    1. It got not hyped like No Man's Sky etc. => no big Twitch / Youtuber is streaming the game to create a snowball effect
    2. Early Access + Alpha isn't the best selling point and the steam reviews are sadly mostly crap I have to say
    3. Performance is not the highest priority yet. This comes naturally later, if more content is in. The crowd expect a "ready", "polished", "AAA" game nowadays though, because why not, right?

    Overall it is underrated, yes. Overall the Dev team is very small but still insane active and "thrilled" to improve it non-stop.
    So the key here is just "Time", I think.
    As long as an Artist is not satisfied with his work, he won't put it for "sale", right? Same here.
    Once Eleon thinks the game is "ready" for big marketing, they will do it properly I think.


    ===

    Regarding MP (HWS) @Furious Hellfire: in its nature you are right with the crazy hardware cost. With the RAM/CPU throttling the more open playfields there are. With the not optimized network code, which ruins the whole PvP crowd / competitive area.

    I am well aware of the "max. 20 player MP" recommendation of Eleon and that I break it with 170+ players at good times.
    Why? Because it is part of my job basically. The benchmarks, crashes and tests I delivered already to Eleon made small servers very smooth by now.
    So the more I can test with mass stuff going on, the better it will become more and more for mass player servers - IMO.

    About your gameplay issues: I see you played last time on 3th July on HWS EU with no big issues from 17 players on Alliance Cryo overall regarding the chat log. I don't know what happened to you but I just know that the recent patches made it bad regarding regeneration and legacy playfields with outdated decoration stuff etc.
    Instead of wiping it, losing a lot of players, we decided to part fix stuff here and there and hold it out until the next fresh season with everything fixed and more on 12th September.

    Anyways, we try to focus on new players a lot with a lot of alternatives, in case one road doesn't work. The overall feedback about that approach isn't bad at least. Maybe you try it out next time again or let me know via PM what could be improved - I love feedback.

    Last but not least I see you don't like "verified" that much, as others. I don't like it too and suggested a change - coming soon I think.
    Back in the days it was more about technical stuff like "active players, active admins, updates" etc.
    Verified didn't mean each player gets a free hug, grabbed by hand and make everything <individually> perfect. That can't ever be achieved. Let alone the never ending discussion about PvE or PvP. "Real survival" or "start supply". Auto Miners or not. etc ;)

    But yeah, if you have some suggestions / improvements, I like to read them via PM or in our forum. Thanks!
     
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  8. spacefarmer

    spacefarmer Captain

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    Very true, I think underwater creations, which is something they have said they want to fully implement, could attract the subnautica crowd. I think overall, looking at the games that are similar, ark, rust, subnautica, space engineers, by the time they've fully polished the game for release the potential fanbase should be quite large.
     
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  9. Liang

    Liang Commander

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    Right now the game is far too limited for larger appeal. We will see what changes come in the future. Its a better than average game right now but it doesnt hold up to what is out there. It wont take a lot to push the game much higher up in quality but with no roadmap, we are basically clueless to what the devs are going to actually do.

    This is the main reason why I will not try to talk anyone I know into buying the game.
     
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  10. Furious Hellfire

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    Absolutely !
    Well we are halfway there now that I have built a collection of HV boats and yachts just for water use XD
    Don't think anyone has done that yet, I try to promote the use of water with my boats, some of which can be used as a useful cheap survival start base in multiplayer servers.
    Have built a couple of boat docks too.
    The more attention we draw to the water the more ideas that will come out of it and the more people will push for water related stuff sooner rather than later with any luck ;)
     
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  11. Furious Hellfire

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    I was not aware of that 20 player recommendation so thanks for that info buddy.
    And is that 20 for whole server or 20 for an individual playfield ?

    I don't want it to seem like I am slating HWS as a server because it really is a great server, very custom and a great community feel.
    I was having a lot of fun until the issues with bike started which was mentioned very actively by a few players over those days.
    I know that the issues were not affecting everyone simultaneously in the same playfield, I wish I could have just stayed there and played but i opted for a water with boat survival start and as soon as i got my boat on the water it sank every few feet and that was the last straw lol.
    Clearly whatever was causing bikes to stop was causing hv to sink also.

    Aside from that which was probably just a bad playfield week, HWS is a totally awesome server and I know most people run on it just fine and they no doubt have a great support staff, I just did not had the cheek to ask for a transfer to another planet hehe.
     
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  12. TK85

    TK85 Captain

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    I very much agree with these points.

    1- A search on Youtube / Twitch and there are few people broadcasting / doing series.

    2 and 3 complement each other. It's amazing the stupidity of people, buying a game in alpha and wanting a game ready. Most of Empyrion's criticisms and denials on Steam speak of performance, bugs, and typical problems of the stage of development. There are few valid negatives (not liking concept, gameplay, ...).
     
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  13. Frigidman

    Frigidman Rear Admiral

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    I've not really seen Eleon do a whole lot towards marketing yet. My hypothesis on this is more of, they are content with the slow steady growth due to word-of-mouth right now in early stages... that they have not put the effort towards fullscale marketing.

    Which is fine, for its current state. The more people you get, the more things can go wrong in publicity. And if they try to push and sell an alpha game so early, it could very well be a very bad thing with all the hate-train-people out there who spread filth in reviews just because they expected a fully fleshed out and completed game (despite all the early access warnings).

    Personally, I think its fine the growth its been having, given no real marketing involved. It has been steadily increasing, and continues to do so. When they go full steam (probably when Beta level hits), there could be a huge spike (or not, the market is fickle).

    MP doesn't really have much to do with it. Look at Subnautica and its kind of solo-only games that are fairly popular and doing well. Its only that the "MP Crowd" are far more vocal about everything, than the solo players. And like it or not, the majority ARE solo players (so many facts out there to support this, I'm not going to bother quoting at this point anymore).
     
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  14. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Rear Admiral

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    EGS is a solid game in a currently crowded genre. The build system is one of the best I've seen in terms of ease of use and flexibility. The scenery and lighting have become first rate. More publicity would certainly bring in more players short term. It would do more harm than good long term because of people who aren't into gaming but who are into themselves.

    What will bring more players to stay is a strong Beta release.* The methods that Eleon are using will result in that.

    * And an Enhanced T-2 Chainsaw. ;)
     
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  15. Furious Hellfire

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    Muahhahahah thats me all over that is XD

    And yes EGS is a solid game and I stand by what I say that even right now as a sp game its the best for me, I don't feel the need to try any other space based game since I found EGS, I just have terrible luck in any multiplayer server other than my own.

    For alpha, its a work of art, I could play sp and not feel like it needed much else.
    Multiplayer even works great with a couple of friends in a private server playing coop.

    I just expected that the verified servers would have the best online opportunities the game has to offer, and they do but at a terrible price that I seem to have paid at every turn xD
     
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  16. Dandere

    Dandere Commander

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    I'm doing my part. I got 7 friends to play it, 3 of whom liked it enough to keep playing.

    I was mad when the steam leaks showed how many people had bought games and Space Engineers was like top 25. Millions of sales. No wonder the SE devs turned it into abandonware and went off to swim in hookers and cocaine.

    That game is so mediocre compared to Empyrion and its dev team is a gang of lazy hacks, while Empyrion has the best early access support I've ever seen.

    I swore never to buy into the early access scam (and it is a scam!) again after Minecraft and Space Engineers, but reading the Empyrion wiki killed my resolve, and I'm glad it did. This is still a scam - paying devs for the right to test their buggy, incomplete game will never not be - but at least the scam is benefitting both the devs and the players.
     
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  17. Dandere

    Dandere Commander

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    LASER CHAINSAW
    PLASMA CHAINSAW
     
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  18. Vermillion

    Vermillion Captain

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    Here's your plasma chainsaw:
     
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  19. Dandere

    Dandere Commander

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    Man it's been so long since I've seen that movie. I don't remember anything at all.

    That is definitely a safety hazard, tho.

    Anyway, yes, this is what I want. High-power longblade mode to dice raptors from outside their melee range would be amazing.
     
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  20. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Rear Admiral

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    I edited the damage for chainsaw way up in config one time. It was wicked good fun. Then I enabled it to be carried by the drone.
    Oh yes.
     
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