How to make shields?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by magnusshields, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. magnusshields

    magnusshields Commander

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    I was thinking a generator kind of the size of a warp core but would use extra power that is left over to power the shield. So make each kw equal a 1 hitpoint. Make the shield cover like a bubble and only light up when hit in the spot it gets hit. Maybe allow gattling guns and railguns to go thru shields. And possibly anti shield weapons should be made as well. So what are every ones thoughts on the subject.
     
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  2. hangar-8

    hangar-8 Lieutenant

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    Why do we need shields?
     
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  3. Frankyln

    Frankyln Rear Admiral

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    I like the concept of shield but not a bubble and defiantly not a shield bases on energy to hp.
    This just makes it a fuel pack vs ammo. Both are virtually unlimited due to ridiculous cargo capacities.
    Instead of using energy directly you could use capacitors that can only be charged slowly and only one at a time. It now has a finite energy source and a slow recovery rate. The more capacitor you have the bigger the shield system becomes and the longer it can resist damage (hp or time).

    The other issue with the bubble system is how do you determine its size/radius. I prefer to see limited directional shields. This give a tactical advantage that not all shields deplete at once and you can turn different shield into the attack in vector.

    Shield need better finite sources. Just as ammo needs to be fixed.

    Until they fix the armor vs damage/ammo issue
    I don't see shield as more than a time delay bandage.

    I do agree with you that if shields are implemented you must have anti shield weapons as well. Please don't do the same mistake as missile without counter measures.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  4. Jacoviz

    Jacoviz Commander

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    Really like Your idea of shields. The capacitor idea is really really beautiful. But we need to have custom number selection for the logics and equipment of the ship trough the toolbar first.
     
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  5. magnusshields

    magnusshields Commander

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    Yeah I should have said the shield should have a charge rate of one second per hitpoint, forgot to put that in.
    Well maybe a shield emitter block that would draw line to another shield emitter block so you could have custom shield areas. Basically if i wanted a square shield I would have a emitter block in each corner so it would need 4, if i wanted a cube I would want 8 emitters. Basically like connect the dots kind of thing. You could make many different shapes of coverage this way.
     
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  6. zztong

    zztong Rear Admiral

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    Another option for shields is not that they mitigate damage, not block it. That is, perhaps the presence of a working shield system reduces damage being done to a ship's blocks by some percentage. This approach might be computationally efficient, compared to shields that have arcs of protection being compared to angles of incoming fire. Also, letting some damage leak through is likely to let smaller ships hurt larger ships.
     
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  7. TheAmazingBluntman

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    I think magnus' 1st idea was much better imho. I feel like the other people are just being too 'purist'. Ohh i dont want people to run from my giant pvp ship or to be able to defend themselves long enough to get away. . .
     
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  8. zztong

    zztong Rear Admiral

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    There's a trade-off that the Devs will face with these suggestions. Having shields with facings and complex geometries come with more processing to calculate shots, but you get a more interesting combat system and the resulting engineering. A shield system where the shield is just part of damage calculations is faster to process, but less interesting.

    You could potentially cook up a hybrid system. Perhaps a shield value is pre-calculated for each block for some pre-determined number of power variations or configurations. This way you eat the calculation cost during construction, often done in creative mode making a blueprint.

    Example:

    The shield calculation had to do with proximity to shield generators, encouraging engineers to consider placement. Everything with 20 blocks of the generator was protected a full strength and the protection falls off with distance after that. You record the protection value for each block and the identity of the shield generator. If, in combat, a block takes damage, you check to see if the covering shield generator still exists and if so, you mitigate damage in accordance with the pre-calculated protection.

    The example is not the important part of this post. Its the idea of pre-calculating values to keep combat performance high. This could be important in multiplayer games.
     
    #8
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
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  9. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    If shield generators produced small bubbles (fixed radius based on the size of the device, say), that would allow strategic placement of shield generators while also making hit calculations simple. I think it makes a lot of sense to either link shield generators to capacitors, or have a fixed recharge rate for shields as long as they're powered (1% per second, or something; not as desirable of an option, but simpler to implement).
     
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  10. TheAmazingBluntman

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    I think you all are making it more complicated then it needs to be. a simple bubble shield that can detect the outer layers of the ship would be the best way imo. Like a shield that regenerates slowly but does no damage to the ship until its depleted(like most shields in most games and sci-fi). Not saying your ideas arent clever, just that this is a video game and your over thinking it. When things get that complicated, it takes the fun out of it for alot of people.
     
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  11. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Rear Admiral

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    Not in favor of shields. The load imposed by them could make EGS unplayable for those who already have to reduce graphics settings to maintain a decent frame rate. Maybe shields could be implemented without a significant hit when EGS' graphics are fully optimized. As it is there are still situations in the game when my new 8GB video card drops a few frames.
     
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  12. TheAmazingBluntman

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    Thats wierd i have a 4gb video card that does great.
     
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  13. Jᴧgᴧ

    Jᴧgᴧ Rear Admiral

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    I'm using a 3gb card at 2304x1366 and it's working just fine, 50 or 60 FPS most places depending on which cap I want. Pretty sure I'm using max textures as well.
     
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  14. xXDeathXx

    xXDeathXx Commander

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    I like the idea of a shield gen but maybe rather than a bubble, make it to where you need to add "Shield Emitters to project the shield around area's so ships of all shape and sizes can customize it to there needs. would also prove effective in battle one you kill a shield emitter and it causes a hole in the shield etc.. whatcha think ?
     
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  15. xXDeathXx

    xXDeathXx Commander

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    Also, just thinking about it have different types of shields as well. Have one that pretty much causes solid ammo to balance off (maybe hitting another person in the line of fire?), another type is energy shield and if you fire lets say energy based ammo at it you only charge it more with adding HP to it or something but to much overloads it maybe ?. just brainstorming and thinking back to the different ways Sci-Fi had shows with there shields function.
     
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  16. Cyrus

    Cyrus Lieutenant

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    The amount of memory a video card does not make it better or faster.


    I'm not to big on the bubble shields myself (visually) - However Something along the lines of an "Integrity Field" that simply increases the armor of blocks directly maybe with minor visual indicating which blocks are covered by the field.

    I also like the idea of having the "Shield Capacitor" that slowly charges over time so you don't end up in the HP = Fuel amount issue other games shields become.
     
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  17. Frankyln

    Frankyln Rear Admiral

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    First shields should all need to run on a finite power system such as batteries or capacitors.
    This means the longer a battle runs the more depleted and ineffective your shields become.
    It also means you need to decide how much of your ships mass, space and generators do you want to dedicate to shield power systems.
    Batteries or capacitors should have a slow recharge cycle.
    This could also be a way to add solar panels.

    Shield power system could be charge in three different ways.

    Serial. one battery at a time
    • Low generator stress
    • slow charge time
    Parallel, All batteries at the same time
    • High generator Stress
    • Fast Charge Time
    Mixed Systems
    • player can choose each batteries charge mode Serial/Parallel
    ------------------------------

    I would like to see many types of shields in this game.

    Shield Drones.
    • Requires a Small Control Block
    • The shield drones tracks and intercepts incoming attacks
    • Shields In only One Direction X by Y are z Spaces forward
    • Drone movement is fast
    • Gives X drones
    • Each drone has strong damage thresh hold.
    • Devices can't be stacked
    • Uses battery power to create new drones at x rate
    • Only usable on CV/BA
    • Caution This may create a lot of lag.
    Hull Breach Emergency Shields
    • Erected at hull breaches
    • dose not stop weapons
    • Requires small Sized Block
    • Limited Radius
    • Fields can't be overlapped
    • Prevent Oxygenates systems from depressurizing
    • Usable on CV/BA
    • Draws more battery power based on potential Air loss
    Explosive Suppression Shields
    • Place close to explosive blocks.
    • Limited Radius
    • Medium Strength
    • Contains and Dissipates Explosions
    • Usable on HV/SV/CV/BA
    • Fields can't be overlapped
    • If explosive force exceeds value explosion still occurs (explosion is magnified).
    • battery power draw low
    Structural Integrity Shields
    • Place anywhere
    • Limited radius
    • Fields can't be stacked
    • Small Block
    • Prevents block from being destroyed completely, collision box is ignored for weapon hits (repair tools still function)
    • battery power draw if base on armor block count loss in radius
    • Can maintain X Blocks
    • if batteries are drained your ship may fall apart
    • Usable on CV/BA/SV/HV
    Inertial dampening Shields
    • XL Block
    • Reduces the Speed of Kinetic Shells and Missiles within its affect
    • Missile become easier to hit
    • Kinetic Shells do less damage
    • Large Radius
    • Radius can't over lap
    • battery Draw increase per kinetic shell in field
    • Usable on BA/CV
    Energy Dispersion Shields
    • XL Block
    • Causes energy weapons to lose cohesion and spread damage over a large area
    • Large Radius
    • Radius can't over lap
    • battery Draw increase per energy blast in field
    • Usable on BA/CV
    Full Shield (Don't Like)
    • Place anywhere
    • Adjustable radius X, Y, Z all effect power consumption
    • Radius can't over lap
    • Xl Block
    • Stops All Incoming Damage
    • Has Max Damage. overload Thresh hold
    • Once Overloaded to device requires cool down for x seconds
    • battery draw large
    • Usable on CV/BA
    Hard Shields
    • Large Block
    • Large Radius
    • Stops Enemy Faction from Spawning or Teleporting withing its influence
    • battery draw low
    • Radius can't over lap (there may be holes)
    • Usable on CV/BA
    Deflector Shields
    • Small Block
    • Shields In only One Direction X by Y are z Spaces forward
    • Stops All Incoming Damage
    • Has Max Damage Thresh hold, weak to moderate
    • Once Overloaded to device requires cool down for x seconds
    • Usable on CV/BA/SV/HV
    • battery draw low
     
    #17
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
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  18. Malekh

    Malekh Captain

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    I like your ideas, i would just point out that generator stress means nothing at the moment. But if it did, would certainly make things interesting.
     
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  19. Neal

    Neal Rear Admiral

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    I'd rather have it kept simple.
    Just add a Shield capacitor that draws energy from the ships generators (which should finally be limited by the ships size class).
    The Shield itself forms a bubble around the ship and consist of Hitpoints and should be a viable alternative to x layers of armor, otherwise there's no point in it imo.
    Just keep it nice and simple for a start.
    It can get more complicated with more complex and advanced shield systems in the future.
     
    #19
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  20. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    To combine a bunch of your ideas:

    Deflector Shield Generator
    • Covers entire ship in a bubble
    • SV/HV: 3x3x3, 1.5 tons, 20 HP
    • CV/BA: 2x2x2, 50 tons, 200 HP
    • Built-in capacitor: 200 kWh for SV/HV, 2000 kWh for CV/BA
    • Max charge rate is capacity in kWh * 50 (10 MW for SV/HV, 100 MW for CV/BA), even for multiple generators
    • Only recharges once depleted or if no damage taken for one actual recharge time (available generator capacity divided by shield capacity); if depleted doesn't activate until recharged
    • Shield HP is capacity in kWh * 5 (1000 for SV/HV, 10000 for CV/BA)
    • Multiple generators add linearly in capacity and recharge time; all charge together
    Sector Shield Generator
    • Covers sector of ship depending on orientation (6 directions)
    • SV/HV: 2x2x3, 0.5 tons, 20 HP
    • CV/BA: 1x1x2, 20 tons, 200 HP
    • Built-in capacitor: 100 kWh for SV/HV, 1000 kWh for CV/BA
    • Max charge rate is capacity in kWh * 100 (10 MW for SV/HV, 100 MW for CV/BA), even for multiple generators
    • Only recharges once depleted or if no damage taken for one actual recharge time (available generator capacity divided by shield capacity); if depleted doesn't activate until recharged
    • Shield HP is capacity in kWh * 6 (600 for SV/HV, 6000 for CV/BA)
    • Multiple generators add linearly in capacity and recharge time; each sector charges separately
    This allows for multiple ways of shielding a ship (possibly simultaneously), depending on how much space is available. The bubble shield would be for smaller craft, particularly where interior space is at a premium, with the downside that if the shield goes down, the whole ship is unprotected. Generally, the sector shields would be more useful on larger ships, especially given the fact that sectors recharge separately; the basic idea would be to try to present the strongest shield to your opponent while letting weakened shields recharge. Also, note that while adding multiple shield generators increases the overall shield HP, it also increases the recharge time; possibly in the future another block could be added that decreases the recharge time (Shield Recharge Booster, for instance).

    I tried to pick reasonable values for the stats, but I'm not wedded to any of them; the point was to demonstrate the overall mechanics.

    EDIT: for clarification and to prevent exploits, the bubble shield would have higher priority for intercepting incoming fire, so that even if a structure used both shield systems, the bubble shield would drain first, and then not recharge until the structure stopped taking fire.
     
    #20
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
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