Implement of Personal Wipe Counter

Discussion in 'Official Eleon Server' started by RexXxuS, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. RexXxuS

    RexXxuS Administrator
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    Hey everyone,

    before Alpha 8 we had a complete playfield wipe schedule for the Starter Planets on 1th + 15th of a month.
    This hard wipe always upsets some players, so instead we have tested for almost one Year the "Personal Wipe Counter" on HWS - very successfully.

    The reason we have to take care of this problem again is, that many players are joining the Official Servers but many stay there for ever, which fails the intention behind "Starter" planets. This makes it unfair for new players, because they can't even spawn their first base / ship to even leave the planet.

    Personal Wipe Counter means that each player in the starter system has 7 days for their spawned structures. Each player and each structures independently (personal). You can always check the remaining time of your structures with the command "cb:wipe".

    Example:
    If you spawn / built a SV on 3th of a month and you try to leave the starter planet Eleen on 13th, the SV will be or is already removed. The Base you spawned / built on 8th however stays (2 days remaining).

    It's easy if you check your cb:wipe counter regulary (and of course only on the Starter Planets + their Orbits). It does not count for all the other playfields!
    This system is fair, since it does not affect everyone and is giving everyone a chance to leave in 7 days - because remember: starter planets are not meant for permanent stay!

    The Personal Wipe Counter will be activated on Friday, 20.07, 9AM (cb:time)

    https://www.timeanddate.com/countdo...Personal+Wipe+Counter+Activation&font=cursive

    ATTENTION: this change is working retro-perspective! That means that there are for example a lot of structures on US Eleen, which are still active from the 17th June! These structures will be deleted as soon as we activate this system on Friday of course, because they are older than 7 days! Spread the word!

    Have a nice week,
    RexXxuS
     
    #1
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
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  2. Alatun

    Alatun Commander

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    It would be nice, if the "non starter planets" were also "working planets". On Eleen/Mato we have a working asteroid belt and the POIs on Mato are being reset correctly. I tried to move to Eris, but must say it was a big failure: after the planets have been enlarged in Alpha 8, the orbit at some planets seems to be the same as in A7 and thus 80% of the asteroids are not reachable, because they are inside the planet. So a single asteroid is mineable on Eris. I can see several mineable on radar, but cannot reach them, because they are inside the planet/orbit border. The POIs on Eris also don't reset. An abandoned mine I raided a week ago is still in the same state. Other people are reporting similar issues for other planets.

    The current design of this scenario should be reconsidered. Currently people don't want to leave for multiple reasons:
    - there is no incentive to leave - with AM you can get all the ore you need, the POIs in starter systems have the same loot as an other planets
    - the resource deposits and POIs on other planets don't get reset - making resources harder to get
    - living "outside" of starter systems requires more travel - this needs pentaxid, but easy Pentaxid is only in PVP zones (collecting single shards to make a trip costing 200 refined pentaxid is quite cumbersome - the time/effort quotient is very bad here)
    - word spreads about the "bugs" outside of starter systems - this does not motivate people to go
    - there are to less PVE worlds outside starter systems - its 4 (vs. 6 PVP) - but from my experience the number of players the are PVP oriented are less than 50%. So I would suggest making 6 PVE planets and 4 PVP planets. If you are a PVP player it seems you are lucky to meet any other PVP player within the current setup (and the current max player limit).
    - there is no "beautiful" (earth like) world outside of the "starter systems" - several times I'm hearing that people are getting depressed when settling on desert/lava planets


    I don't know what you can do within the scenario. But maybe you should consider these proposals:
    - disable usage of Auto miners on startup planets
    - POIs on startup planets should not drop: T2 items, AM cores, gold, epic weapons, heavy armor
    - activate the scripts to renew resource deposits and POIs on all planets
    - maybe switch one more planet to PVE (e.g. Juno or Nex)

    Thank you for you time reading this.

    Alatun
     
    #2
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  3. Taelyn

    Taelyn Moderator
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    The system should adapt it self to the planet size. To correct this we need to wipe that system. Doesnt make people happy either.

    Loot cant be controlled by server owners. There is a loot table what is attached to the container. Only the devs can control that.

    Auto miners cant be controlled either. U have them or u dont. We cant decide on what playfield u can drop them. As for the AM i dont know if it can be scripted to nit be able to use it on starter worlds.

    About poi rest. It is activated. For important pois. To add it to more pois requiers a wipe. Again people arnt going to like that.

    Most deposits dont reset but u have meteors dropping on depletion.
     
    #3
  4. Alatun

    Alatun Commander

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    With "wipe that system" do you mean that planet + orbit? Personally that would be acceptable for me. If this would happen at a announced date, I could move my stuff elsewhere (maybe put all as BP in factory), if we have a working planet afterwards (the next full wipe will come with 9.x - and probably this is going to take a while until this will happen). Currently the server is not that old and there are not so many bases on Eris as far as I know. Otherwise we have to life with that buggy planet for months.

    I don't think you should push players to move, but there should be an incentive to move. People designing player worlds and player progression should know this. If you agree with my point of view, maybe you should talk with the devs then. Maybe if a server admin tells his experience, it will be heared.

    Abandoned Mine works on Mato. Why does it not work on Eris? As far I understood it, the list should be "global" and not related to a certain planet. So please check, why Eris has a problem here.

    To find a meteor on the enlarged planets may take you more than 2h after you hear the announcement. If you are unlucky another player found it before you and mined it already. So you wasted 2h+ of search for nothing.... this is no real option. You would need a special tool/item that helps you finding a meteor efficiently.
     
    #4
  5. Taelyn

    Taelyn Moderator
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    To adapt the orbit of the planet we have to wipe the orbit. Not the planet it self. To fix the missing
    timers for restting POIs then we have to wipe the planet. U might agree with it. Doesnt mean
    every player agrees with it. But its something i can discuss with RexXxuS

    POI reset isnt global based. Its or ON or OFF global based. We have it ON. Then u still have per planet
    per POI to decided a timer it resets. If u dont give that POI a timer that POI doesnt reset
    no matter if global is ON or not. The global setting ON just means POIs do reset IF they
    have a timer in the yaml. OFF nothing will reset even IF they have a timer in the yaml.
    Could be that we forgot to add a timer to some POIs.

    The loot is beeing discused with the devs by some of us including me before 8 got to
    experimental. We were fine with as its now. There is no loot table per POI its a loot table
    per container. So every Alien Grey container drops that loot, every alien RED container drops
    that. U cant say that red container only drops this because its on a starter world. But that red
    container drops that because its not on a starter world. Thats not how the game works.
    Never saw a game that works that way anyway. That would mean the devs would have to make
    many loot tables or more loot crates specialy for starter worlds. What makes on the official server
    maybe sence. But on player made MP servers maybe not. Maybe in the future we get a more
    complicated loot table or even something we can manipulate our self like the config file.

    Doesnt the detector not detect meteors? Also u can fly in a SV with a hand scanner in your pocked
    and it works. I just dont know if they detect Meteors. I dont know why @RexXxuS doesnt resets other planets
    then only the starter worlds. That is something he has to answer him self

    Tho i get your fustration that the game needs a better radar detection since 8. Something many
    of us already said to the devs
     
    #5
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  6. RexXxuS

    RexXxuS Administrator
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    Thanks for the Feedback @Alatun

    indeed some things have to be "fixed" because of the larger planets. It was a test and the result was not that satisfying in MP - not even speaking of the big RAM usage a Class 5 planet consume...

    So your points are noted and fixed for the next season.
    As Taelyn said already a wipe is not nice for some players because no matter how much we spam announcements, some will miss it.
    Maybe we can ignore their blaim then but we want to avoid it in first place.

    Regarding regenerations: they work on almost all POIs. If they do not regenerate it is either by design or a bug which still exist: if a player dismantle a whole POI, sometimes it is gone forever...
    And since the "wipe POI" command is still not working we are in a bit of trouble.

    Deposits however can be set to regenerate on a larger scale. However, also that can cause negative reviews because the Auto Miners are wiped then as well.
    Since the official servers are more addressed to new / casual gamers we don't want to put out too many limits / announcements. Hence Meteors should do the job.

    RexXxuS
     
    #6
  7. Alatun

    Alatun Commander

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    Thanks for the detailed answers @Taelyn, @RexXxuS.

    I appreciate your work, but the situation reminds me of last autumn when I stopped playing Empyrion. The "bug fixing cycles" are just way too long. I know it's not you fault. The game is now out nearly 3 years and its still alpha. But either you admins get better tools or other ways to fix stuff (planets, POIs) "on the fly" or the devs need to do more internal testing before releasing stuff. In the current state the motivation to play this game is again dropping rapidly.

    With 8.x and the enlarged planet, I was hoping that they also increased the limit of structures (and thus players) that could be allowed on a planet - but we have the same limits as in 7.x (which is unacceptable imho). Currently about 20 players per planet can easily reach the 200 core limit. But from the dimensions a planet should easily be able to support 100+ players.

    I was already complaining about POIs not being reset in 7.x and there seems to be little progress here. That is one of the things I'd like to do and it's bad that I will run into troubles rather often.

    Is this something you can fix for the active season? Perhaps you should get (or write) some tools, that verify that all POIs in your universe have the same timer (so you cannot forget them any more). It's always bad if you forget something and you cannot fix this for a long time.

    Thanks again, for accepting my feedback.
     
    #7
  8. lemansgranprix

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    Seeing the same (as Alatun was stating) about the asteroid belts being merged into the planets atmosphere. I’m on Plys and this is the same thing. Many are unreachable, due to entering the planet’s atmosphere.
     
    #8
  9. Alatun

    Alatun Commander

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    How can we improve the situation for the current season? Currently you are running a "reset POI script" every few days for the starter systems. Why? Should it fix the problems you mentioned? Could you do the same for other planets?


    I took a hand scanner yesterday and did a circle at a certain degree of latitude. (I did not find any meteors - it is also quite unsure if I could detect them visually - Eris has a lot of valleys that are filled with green fog that won't let you see whats on the ground). The scanner has a range of 1000m. So one circle covers a stripe of 2000 m. The distance from pole to pole is 16km (for a class 4 planet) So you need 8 circles to scan the whole planet. I did measure the time with a SV yesterday for one circle: about 12 minutes. So it should take about 96 minutes to scan a planet this way (but we are still unsure, if you could detect meteors - right?). I suggest you do this the next 3 days yourself and write us a report how funny and exciting this game experience was and perhaps we know if the scanner will detect meteors. Maybe you can convince me. But maybe you died of boredom beforehand.

    My suggestion: a new item that you can build on a base / CV that can be loaded with 1-4 rockets. These rockets can be launched and eject a couple of satellites that scan the planet for meteors. (1 rocket will give you the results after 10 minutes, with 4 you get the results after 2,5 min.). You will get bookmarks for this. But these bookmarks are not the exact location, but only an area of maybe 4km, where you have to find the meteor with your hand scanner.

    Just another thing to mention:
    Yesterday in global chat on Eleon EU: Seems Plys and Meldo are already full (people cannot spawn any new ships). Conclusion: we need more PVE planets or this core limit must be removed.
     
    #9
  10. Kaeser

    Kaeser Rear Admiral

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    Hey, so as stated in the Alpha EXPERIMENTAL 8.2.0

    ........
    Gameplay:
    - Extended structure limit from 255 to 65535 per playfield
    ........

    When this change goes into the public version, planets will be able to have way more entities, this includes ore deposits, POIs, player structures and so on, the obvious problem with this will be the performance, it's already a problem to enter a planet class 5 for the time we have to wait for the terrain to load so performance improvements will also have a big impact

    How will server admins manage this is still to be seen as it is in no way possible to test those limits in SP in any manageable way, yet what I anticipate is, we will not be able to increase the current limit of 255 per playfield in servers that much more due to performance...
     
    #10
  11. lemansgranprix

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    +1 thank you for looking this!
     
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  12. Alatun

    Alatun Commander

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    Just for your information: No, the hand scanner does not show you the presence of meteors. I discovered one meteor by accident yesterday, while I had the hand scanner in my inventory. Perhaps the vehicle scanner for HVs does. I will try this next time.

    When you are near a meteor there seems to be a short animation, showing a smoke trail leading towards the impact point of the meteor. But you already must be quite close to the impact point (guess is about 1km). If you have a "regular deposit" on a planet or an asteroid, you only must search for the deposit/asteroid ONCE. Then you make a bookmark and the time to travel to a bookmarked deposit is straightforward.

    The meteor mechanics makes mining less predictable and much more time consuming. One could consider this "a game feature", but imho this feature has some flaws. Put it on the list of issues, why people don't want to leave the starter worlds.
     
    #12
  13. jeka_gor

    jeka_gor Ensign

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    Hello, I'm playing not so long ago. I just fly up to the planet "Trader Residence" and it disappeared, it just disappeared. Help please restore it, because it had a lot of supplies and I invested a lot of time in it
     
    #13
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  14. Nobody 2

    Nobody 2 Commander

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    Wanted to report the same, someone lost his CV a few minutes ago

    Please remove trader orbit from the Wipelist on Official EU server
     
    #14
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  15. BooMan

    BooMan Lieutenant

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    If ships are wiped while a person is online there needs to be a way to determine how old a vessel or structure is.
     
    #15
  16. Nobody 2

    Nobody 2 Commander

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    The simple problem is that "Trader orbit" is no protected area.
    Making it dependent on the online status would still mean that a disconnect would lead to a destroyed ship.

    Means it is not possible to travel to "Stocks asteroid field" with any vehicle older than 7 days. Now completly, and with a online check not without a risk
     
    #16
  17. Bearwolf

    Bearwolf Lieutenant

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    This is also wiping any ship older than 7 days when they warp into the starter systems.
     
    #17
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  18. Nobody 2

    Nobody 2 Commander

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    Mercenary has the same problem on the eu server, one just lost all his stuff as he jumped there
     
    #18
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  19. Yume Yumiko

    Yume Yumiko Ensign

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    I just lost my cv and alot of my last weeks worth of work on it after warping and flying into merc orbit to pick up a friend. wondering if anything can be done about this.
     
    #19
  20. Yume Yumiko

    Yume Yumiko Ensign

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    i got hit as well in the wipe in orbit. flew in from plys to merc and a few seconds later, poof. would really appreciate it if i could get my stuff back..
     
    #20

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