Is the map too BIG ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by gevans, Dec 15, 2020.

  1. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Invader versus Defender. Akua-Omicron. And those are just the ones that come with the game that offer a smaller universe. :D

    And there's nothing stopping servers from making their own.
     
    #21
  2. Joij

    Joij Lieutenant

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    No one is forcing you to conform.

    If nobody has made a small scenario yet then make one yourself.
     
    #22
  3. Shadex Demarr

    Shadex Demarr Lieutenant

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    I believe what the OP was trying to convey was two fold:

    Is a galaxy as large as the ones Empyrion is capable of making conducive to the PvP environment the game proports to support?

    Yes PvE players love the explore and build but the simple, avoided truth is this game is also a PvP game and with the current limitations to the game server population it is extremely difficult and uncommon for players wishing to engage in that playstyle to do so. This is not EvE Online and does not have thousands of players on a single server to cover the vast numbers of systems this game can create. Even with those player numbers EvE intentionally created trade lanes and bottlenecks in their gate system to bring players together that wanted to battle over territory. I am not sure telling players, if you don't like it go find another server or make your own is really the best message for this community to be sending.

    As for PvE players they also like social hubs. Places where they can go and hang out and meet other PvE players and dare I say it even possibly roleplayers. With the absolute vast expanse I can see that being a little more difficult. Now, I personally hope that will be solved by players taking it upon themselves to construct and advertise bars and resorts or what have you to fill that niche so in time that may not be as much of a concern.

    However I do feel that the PvP players do have a valid concern and do not necessarily want things to continue with the current, I am going to be in X system someone please come and fight me, we have now.
     
    #23
  4. ChumSickle

    ChumSickle Captain

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    I agree with much of what you said. However what we have been saying is that unlike EVE and many other games, Eleon allows a great deal of customization in the actual game. The map can be made as big, or as little as one would want it.

    Telling players "if you dont like it go find another server or make your own" is what this game is about. It is freedom. Dont like something? Change it. The devs are not designing a game that forces any real specific type of game play on anyone. If you dont like the survival aspect that can even be turned off. The game, for all intents and purposes, is what we make out of it.

    I would also slightly challenge the "this game is also a PvP game". Based on even what you wrote, it appears far more that this is a PvE game that allows PvP, but is not set up to cater to PvP much more than just allowing it.
     
    #24
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  5. Roy

    Roy Ensign

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    No one
    No one is conforming to anything when they have a choice its on them to choose.
     
    #25
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  6. Shadex Demarr

    Shadex Demarr Lieutenant

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    Yes you can customize the map, if you have the know how to do so. There isn't a simple to use slider or built in map editor that allows players to just flip a few toggles and make a map that they like. It requires a significant amount of know how to do so and honestly, a lot of players aren't looking to make their own private galaxies. They bought the game to play it online with new people. Hence why the OP was asking about variety. Unless the ability to change something is baked into the default user experience it should not be considered an excuse for omission. If something takes file manipulation and coding that is not customization, that is modding.

    As for PvP it is advertised on the store page of the game. It is listed as Online PvP. The game description talks about fighting humans and taking over the galaxy. Just as soon as you can find someone to fight.

    The funny thing is, I am not personally a PvP player. I prefer PvE. However I do have the capability to see their concern. I have PvP friends that have left the game and understand their frustration. for this reason I do still think it is very disrespectful and damaging to the health of the player base to lean on a position of, yeah we know we told you the game supported something but we wanted your money so if you really want that experience you best go learn to code and pay for your own server.

    I think you are right though, that would make an interesting and possibly more straightforward tagline for the game.

    "Empyrion - A game for PvE players. But PvPrs... we'll allow you to be here too."
     
    #26
  7. IndigoWyrd

    IndigoWyrd Rear Admiral

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    No, the map is not too big. If it were 1:1 scale with the universe, it would not be too big.
     
    #27
  8. gevans

    gevans Lieutenant

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    Your not serious ?
    Do you have any idea how vast the actual universe is ?
     
    #28
  9. gevans

    gevans Lieutenant

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    Thankyou Shadex for that excellent description of what I'm talking about.
    And yes......many pvp'ers have left because it is now nearly impossible to do that with the new map system.
     
    #29
  10. gevans

    gevans Lieutenant

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    Choose what ?
    There is no choice for the map I'm talking about.
    The only way is to rent your own server and then learn how to edit this game so that you can custom build a small map.
    This is incredibly time consuming, even though I've done lot's of editing I don't know how to edit this new map.
    And remember......even though a server might be advertising 40 or 100 playfields it likely still has thousands.
     
    #30
  11. ChumSickle

    ChumSickle Captain

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    Im sorry the game is too big for your liking.
     
    #31
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  12. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Invader versus defender.
    Akua-omicron.

    Both built in scenarios included with the game with smaller maps.. In the case of invader versus defender it's even set up for some pvp and specifically built for multiplayer. One of the official servers even runs it.
     
    #32
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  13. Roy

    Roy Ensign

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    You're obviously ignoring all the solutions that have been presented to you. You have a choice when you join or set up a server to your liking. If you don't want in play in a large environment then don't choose to do so. It's all at your fingertips. You make the choice when you set up or join a server.. If you seek pvp then join a pvp dedicated server. Not sure how much more clear this logic can be made for you.
     
    #33
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  14. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Exactly. There are multiple options available to servers. They don't even need to make their own scenario, there's many that are already smaller, some built in already.
     
    #34
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  15. gevans

    gevans Lieutenant

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    I found a server with a small map.......just a few dozen systems.
    It's HWS and they have redone the map.....actually their whole server is highly customized.
    They are also one of if not the most popular server in Empyrion.
    It took a bunch of talented people doing a lot of work to make that server.

    I could ask why none said I should check them out but then we wouldn't of had that ridiculous argument.
    Maybe some of you didn't know ?
    Regardless, I knew there were a lot of players who did not want a huge map.
     
    #35
  16. We didn't suggest HWS because HWS is getting ready to wipe the server because of the update, and when they do wipe they are going back to a larger universe. Not a full default universe, but a much larger universe than they have now.
     
    #36
  17. The Big Brzezinski

    The Big Brzezinski Commander

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    I'm still not understanding the downside of the map's large size. If PvP servers are having trouble, the admins thereof need to develop more suitable rules. Make people interact with each other, whether cordially or belligerently. There are plenty of games to take cues from on this.
     
    #37
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  18. IndigoWyrd

    IndigoWyrd Rear Admiral

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    I am, and it is quite large indeed, with a volume of roughly 3.58×10^80 m^3 and expanding.

    Most of it is empty, or near empty interstellar space, and only a fraction of this actually contains things like Stars and/or Planets, so lots and lots of "wasted space", and this isn't a problem for any of us living here. It's not a problem for a game world either, where distances approaching infinite, can be circumvented by a simple portal pairing.

    And let's not forget, anyone is free to host their own server, running whatever scenarios, mods, and whatever else they like. Eleon has been more than generous regarding how we can run and host, even monetize our own servers. You just have to be sure your "friends" actually like you enough to come play where you host! :)

    Now, just imagine this - with a 1:1 of the Universe, that means hosts could potentially link their environments, while having potentially very different environments, with more than sufficient "space", namely all of space, to host anything from a single-planet system scenario to a default survival (the "big map") scenario or anything in between. Now picture this: A Default Survival scenario, with a number of Portals linking to other servers hosting a single system (one that corresponds with a matching system in "the big map"). Huge worlds, highly detailed, made of sprawling city-sized POI's, with surrounding towns, suburban sprawl, rural areas and planetary wilderness in much greater detail due to the reduced resource load of being a single-system server instance).
     
    #38
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
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  19. playlessNamer

    playlessNamer Lieutenant

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    When the gameplay and the loot progression and the skilltree and the deepness of the meta would be just 0.1% of the size of the map....
    Then the game would be outa alphastage maybe.
     
    #39
  20. IndigoWyrd

    IndigoWyrd Rear Admiral

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    Loot progression you can fix yourself if you don't like it. Just edit the files the way you want.
    Meta is now, always was, and always will be the exact opposite of depth. It is the very process of reducing all depth to mere numbers and min/maxing as hard as you can.

    As for actual game play, how about telling us what you think is wrong with it, and then, perhaps write a scenario to address what bothers you about it.

    One of the wonderful things about Empyrion - if you think you can do better, they provide the tools to try. Just look at... uhh.. I can't recall the name of the big project that is quite popular... Eden? Something? Uhh.. it's too late for heavy thinking right now, but look around, see what others have done, do better, or be constructive.
     
    #40
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