New Starting Planets - Not a Fan

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Alendi Istari, Aug 1, 2022.

  1. The Big Brzezinski

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    The survival element becomes much less pressing of a concern once you get a shotgun and HV. You know, like fifteen minutes into a new start.

    Makes some armor, a one-way single-thruster SV, fly up to the wrecked station, and teleport to Omicron if you want faster action. Alternatively, make or SBP in a CV in Crown and wander off to the stars without ever touching Omicron. The point of Crown is to be a mini-sandbox with escape as your only objective. I'm not going to say asking for the devs to let you start somewhere else isn't a potentially viable means of escaping the sector, but don't think it's a very fun one.
     
    #21
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  2. XLJedi

    XLJedi Lieutenant

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    I tend to disagree a bit.

    To me, all I read in the OP is: "My old blueprints are not optimized to the new moon start scenario."

    So my answer to that same dilemma was: I design new blueprints that *will* work!

    I thought the moons presented an interesting new element: minimalist base designs (that strongly favor the use of WOOD) and a basic half-built SV that barely crawls into orbit but is purpose-built to accept the scavenged equipment available there.

    There is a need for both a base and an SV. The base will provide the basic constructor to create your required multitool and some 15mm ammo, and the SV (with a spot to accept parts) is your express ticket to Omicron. Promethium is available in small quantities via NPC hunting or locating rocks. You don't need much to generate multi-tool cartridges in lots of 2.

    If we're honest, the old game start options were FAR easier, and I could get into space (and a CV) much faster. All you needed was a minimalist SV with a scanner to rapidly locate the Sanctuary and less than 100 each of the basic ores would do it.

    The new moon start seems to ask a *little* more on the base and SV cooperative strategy. However IMO, where the moon start could be improved a bit in terms of challenge, there are 2 things I might look at:

    1) They drop you in the same "ore rock oasis" location on every moon (which feels a little "meh"). Ridding the moons of the oasis zones might be a good first step and/or maybe randomize where the pod falls. I mean, you can fly to each moon and literally locate the oasis zone from space and drop there in your dink SV to pick the abundant rocks. I can't really buy the argument that there are not enough material resources to collect on the new starter moons.

    2) There's no armed adversary on any moon. No one will shoot at you; no attacks to repel. They might add a drone base or something to the moons for harder starts. Additionally, I'd consider making the asteroid field a bit more challenging with more patrols and stronger adversaries to avoid or fight. Might then require that you actually visit a couple moons, to build up an offense to get to the middle.

    Ultimately though, you end up at Omicron with a warp capable ship; fly directly to the Sanctuary and proceed rapidly toward your CV. Same as the old start, but with this extra little growth phase moon challenge.
     
    #22
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2022
  3. Liang

    Liang Captain

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    Same here. Been out of the game since 1.7.5 and came back when 1.8.5 hit to give it another spin and was trying to figure out why I could not customize/randomize the starter planets. Attempted to just edit the Dynamic to increase the size and temps and it fubar'd every single starter world.

    This is a giant step backwards for the game...even IF they did this to try to force more people to "test' these worlds for a while, its a big no no in my eyes. You dont just suddenly take away the ability of all players to start a customized game for testing like this...and if this is perminante I will definitely be changing my review of the game from a positive to a negative. Survival games should have custom starts available to those that want it.
     
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  4. The Big Brzezinski

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    I wonder how hard it would be to have some unlockable alternate starts. Did you find the technical artifact for the guys as the sanctuary? Now you can start on Omicron. Reach the UCH hideout? You can start with a warp SV in your factory. Killed a drone base? You can start on a random planet within 30 LY of the Ellyon system. Earn all the explorer's guild tiers? You can start at a Ellyon warp-in sector in a CV. Might help appease people who just love the taste of raptor steaks and anti-radiation medication.
     
    #24
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  5. Hector G

    Hector G Commander

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    The old starts were only easier for veterans IMO. Yes on the old start I could have a CV with lots of supplies not long after planetfall but Akua is meant to be easy. If you are a truly new player with no experience (even if you have played other survival games) it could take several hours before they figure out how to even get to that point.
     
    #25
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  6. Kaeser

    Kaeser Rear Admiral

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    Yes, we need to have tutorials, ways of teaching players how to survive, how to build, how to pilot a ship, how to fight NPC ships and troops, but those don't necessary need to be tied to game story missions

    But most of all, they should not be forced upon every single new game start and right now, some starting moons wont work as starters unless we follow the missions
     
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  7. XLJedi

    XLJedi Lieutenant

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    Which moons would those be? I never follow the missions.
     
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  8. The Big Brzezinski

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    Only missions I know of are the ones that start on Omicron, and the repeatable fetch quests on Akua. All you get otherwise in Crown is a lead to go to Omicron. When you actually follow it is entirely up to you.
     
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  9. Kaeser

    Kaeser Rear Admiral

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    The POIs, the wrecks, the loot, the destroyed HVs and SVs, the fauna, the flora, the playfield itself, they were all custom made to bootstrap the player from the starting planet

    You may not be following the tutorials but you are not exactelly surviving

    Try and start a game in a server a few days after the server restart, when all resources have been used up by previous players

    That is survival, you need to make due with what you find and travel far and wide just to keep the avatar alive
     
    #29
  10. XLJedi

    XLJedi Lieutenant

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    There's nothing unique to the moon start regarding the lack of resources in a picked-over public server. I've done starts on the official servers prior to the moon startup where there was not a trace of ore left to even build a portable constructor. Of course, you ask someone for a lift to a nearby planet and they drop a 4k stack of every ore at your feet. ...not what I asked for, but not much of a survival experience there either. LOL
     
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  11. Liang

    Liang Captain

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    It seems most people are missing the point of the thread.

    The new starting planets are boring and too easy to be made the way you have to start the game. We need the random start back as an OPTION. Sure keep the new planets for new players or for "full story mode" but give us back the random start.
     
    #31
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  12. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    I cannot agree with all this. The new start is now way better than before, a new player is not anymore left alone to guess what he has to do because of tutorials not working etc., all this has been corrected. Now, some players may not like these sort of hand-held quests with a basic story evolving, but the game has to start somewhere to make sense because of the storyline that evolves later - and which you are totally free to ignore.
    So everyone should get its own taste to start the game.

    And for those who are crying to get the old game start back:
    Spawn a escape pod-like ship with the console, move to Omicron, crash your ship on the planet and make a game backup. Voilà.
     
    #32
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  13. The Big Brzezinski

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    Progression from starter planets was already pretty perfunctory. You could have a proper CV ready in a couple hours. The Crown sector at least asks you to explore some first.
     
    #33
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  14. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    To give more pepper on Akua for those players who lament that there are no enemies whatsoever (which is not totally exact), I propose the following change: Once the player arrives at the Supply Bunker, force the player to core the bunker if he wants to use the facility, plus have 1 very strong Zyrax Drone Base somewhere on a isolated point of Akua (far away from Talon settlements etc.). This will result in frequent 'base attacks' from the Zyrax so that the players get an early feeling of what to expect in the game afterwards. A message should fairly tell the player about base attacks before he cores the base (so he can still opt for not doing it.)

    The drone base should be so strong that it's hopeless for a beginning player to take it over. If they try anyway it's their business. Should the player succeed in destroying the base core, then a timed self-destruction of the base will trigger, a message would tell the player to use a teleporter placed in the base and failing that, the explosion of the base would kill him - he DIES if he doesn't succeed. The teleporter will take him to...first room in the Drone Base located on Omicron and oh...Just a shotgun with ammo, some good amount of medecines, a survival tool and a motorbike kit in his inventory, plus 2-3 random items that make sense, everything else has vanished ...Ah these teleporter malfunctions, I tell you...(Technically, his inventory will be empty on arrival but he can pick-up these things from a container immediately near its arrival location)
    I congratulate the player for his good shortcut and I wish him Good Luck to proceed :)
     
    #34
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  15. The Big Brzezinski

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    That seems very railroady for a sandbox game, more than a little disingenuous (cores do not kill people), and an excellent way to cause a ragequit. Cheap POI deaths are why, when presented with a locked door and a switch, only the ignorant, foolish, and desperate use the switch instead of blasting the door down.

    Akua is not the spicy fighty planet. That's Masperon's job. The swamp moon is the one with all the monsters, bugs, and legacy horrors. It's already got an abandoned drone base if you want to do base attacks.
     
    #35
  16. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    Where do I say that you have to do anything against the drone base? But it's good if there is another shortcut to Omicron - although a much tougher one - and for those players who seek trouble, I can only say: Ask and thou shall receive...
     
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  17. The Big Brzezinski

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    You go to the supply bunker presumably because you have no supplies. Currently, the tutorial walks you through taking out the core. Then you loot the place for supplies and maybe repurpose it as a base.

    It would not be an improvement to instead force a player use a random teleporter (which doesn't work on a coreless BA) on pain of death by explosion (which bases don't do when their core is destroyed), sending them away from the bunker (which they did not loot) to a Zirax drone base with almost no equipment, no tent, and no way of getting back to whatever meager wealth they left in a portable constructor on Akua. More like hazing than the start of a game.
     
    #37
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  18. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    You say the tutorial drives you to take out the core? I've never seen that, but I've played without tutorial and I never had to core the supply bunker to use it, a big advantage and to my taste a (too) great gift to the player who doesn't have to look for fuel and energy to run the place, a reason why I never had to make a provisory base on Akua, using the Supply Bunker was more than enough. My proposal just asks to core the bunker so you at least have to power this place, and also to stand some Zyrax attacks. Still fair enough for what you are given gratis, inclusive the servants inside :)

    For the rest and my idea of the big drone base - which is necessary to make Zyrax attacks happen to the bunker - I think you misunderstand my proposed mechanics and what I mean. For one, from what I read in your response, you get it totally false, of course a base can have a teleporter with a faction core (hey, the drone base, chap, not the supply bunker); and the faction core can be made destroyable, and after you've placed your own core that teleporter would still work (albeit in my scenario you will never go that far to place your own core, you will die first if you persist, it's not Christmas, sorry). For two, you can at any moment design a POI to make pop-up messages appear that go away when you close them, and which trigger the teleporter to work, no problem, so you will know about the teleporter in time should you have missed it during your combat visit, soon after you have destroyed the faction core that message asking you to hit the road would appear. For three, I'm not sure you got correctly my other details either, so read them again maybe, I'm talking about 1) you must now core the supply bunker and 2) the planet has now the presence of a powerful drone base that you are not supposed to attack or take over, its presence is to make drone attacks to your base which is now the supply bunker. And 3) If you brainlessly think to attack the drone base, you can do so and get 'sort' of a reward if you go to the end of this route.
    That way there are enemies on Akua now.

    Just because there is something in the game doesn't mean you have to decide to beat it at all costs, that's also why I said this base should be made almost invincible to keep normal players off, but should you go foolishly ahead and try to overtake this drone base, so be it, it will leave a backdoor open to proceed with the game. Maybe you were reading this 'reward' at the end when teleporting away to have a sarcastic trait? Far from that! it's up to you to make an advantage out of it, and it can be so with some effort. But that's exactly the sort of trouble you were seeking for, weren't you, don't forget those players wanted more enemies on Akua...Essentially, by trying the impossible you should also expect that your reward will be a strange one and not necessarily what you wanted. This is not even a totally new idea, see the early chapters of the storyline in this big compound in the clouds that you reach via teleporter (I forgot the name), here too a self-destruction will put an end to the chapter, although without any consequences for you or the place. (Or the ending of the Ilimarinen, if you make a false step at the end downwards...That's not fair, but why should a good survival game be fair? If you rage-quit you'll be back tomorrow.)

    But again, if such a change was realized then for sure you would not be forced to go this route, you could also play like you do now, with a smiley face just gently following the basic story, do quests for the Talon, go grab gold stones in the water, do one of the 100s identical POis on Skillon or rage-quit after a fire rain, have your fun with Golems and Spiders on Masperon etc. and eventually make your first teleport towards Omicron from orbit or go there with your dearly built SV. I personally like it, it's ok for most of us I guess, that's how it's meant to be played as a main line, but the problem with it can be: It will lack the resistance you will meet later; later your smiley face will turn saur, and by then it's a bit late to rage-quit, don't you think? And you say Masperon or Sklilon is the place for that? Nah, nah, these players are here on Akua, that's where the action must be if they chose to start here, not elsewhere... And after all, for those who won't engage in foolish attacks (the drone base in my proposal) all they will suffer are some Zyrax attacks at the surface of the Supply Bunker, nothing essential to be hit there anyway. All people can stand it, I'm sure...And getting some additional loot by killing drones or troop ships is not shabby either.
    My idea is just a different more tough one possibility for those players who imagine they have to go a desperate hard-core route in order to enjoy the game. Why are they otherwise complaining about the lack of enemies on Akua? There should also be a place and a route to take for those players , thus my proposal, and the risk-reward offered adds-up nicely.
    At least a good idea for a workshop scenario mod if a new update would not always break it...
     
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    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  19. Powie

    Powie Ensign

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    This thread is pretty much what I just joined to say. We haven't played Empyrion for maybe 1.5 - 2 years. Yesterday we thought we would fire up a server to play. We do not like the new changes. This starter planet is way to easy. This is supposed to be a survival game, with a story, that's the problem it's too easy to survive. We quickly got a base up with base defenses to learn that there a no enemies at all. It really needs to be changed back. The old starter planet was easy enough, you just had to be cautious in certain areas.

    I felt it was well balanced before, now it's just boring grind fest to get off this planet.
     
    #39
  20. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Which moon did you start on? There are 4 and some are harder than others.
     
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