Not a lot of 'survival' left in EGS.

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by Slipstream, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Slipstream

    Slipstream Captain

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    So, having played through levels 1-10 on a 'medium/normal' difficulty, I have found that the drive to reduce the early-game content/speed up the early game has gone too far.

    Turning the survival tool into a full-on ultra-tool makes things far too easy. One tool, that requires no power, fuel, stamina, etc., now slices, dices, and just look at that tomato. It can pop rocks, pop trees, drill ores, and even allows you to make a strong stand against many creatures. I was able to kite my way around an L2 Swamp Golem with only the Ultratool!

    The removal of the T1 drill, no longer needing the chainsaw, and no longer needing FUEL for this tool means you're pretty much all set from the moment you create it/pull it from the escape pod.

    Now, I know I can dive into my config.ecf file and make changes. But I'm speaking about the default, un-modified game. It is as if the early game is now viewed as an inconvenience, and there is a push to skip through that, and get to the mid-game.

    Please reconsider the abandonment of the early game challenge, and the changes to the "survival tool", which is now a Swiss-Army-Knife which operates by magic, instead of some form of fuel.

    Thank you!

    --Brian
     
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  2. nottrox ¯\ (ツ) /¯

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    I Totally agree. I don't see the reasons for cutting the early game short that way. I mean for those who like an easy start there is still the "advanced start" option in SP-survival.
     
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  3. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    More starting planets would help. I think the survival tool should still be able to dig but a lot slower, bring back the basic drill, and make the chainsaw more useful against trees.

    For better or worse though, it seems the majority of players need an easier early game experience. I just hope we get a way to make the start more difficult as well, for those who desire a more difficult starting experience.

    Keep in mind many players seemed to be refunding the game in the 2 hour window in alpha 8/9 because the game start was too difficult. It's a tricky thing to balance and that's why I hope we get more options so we can tailor the game as we want. :)
     
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  4. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    Those who wanted an easier Start found their wishes fulfilled. Those who do prefer a difficult start can chose the "hard" way - nothing more.
    I prefer a Medium way, so far at least.
     
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  5. Luzillus

    Luzillus Lieutenant

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    I like the changes with EXP A10. I dont need the grind and for those, they want grind and Dig "years" for ressources, can edit the Config.ecf

    And, all they Players they want a Hard Start/Game: look for a Hard Server. In a SP Game you can Change everything by editing Files.

    Yes this is a Hard Work, but Hard Gameplaying need Hard preparations;)
     
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  6. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    That is probably the worst rationalization i've ever seen.
    No one should be forced to alter the config files to get a playable game. Most people don't have a clue where to do it or how to do it, and even then know that if they do change the configs they'll likely be denied access to a server due to mismatching configs and lose them whenever an update is released.
    Adjustable in-game settings that actually adjust the gameplay are what people want and need. Not some dude telling them they don't deserve those options because they don't want to play it his way.
     
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  7. Luzillus

    Luzillus Lieutenant

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    Hm, are there no Settings? One Player favorite the slowly Progres other Player like faster Progress. You can not satisfy all! I wrote a opinion, a possibility.

    And as you say, most ppl dont know about and a beginner have an easier entry to the game, if you not must Grind as Hell!

    And i have learned, if i not know it, i can ask. :)
     
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  8. jlego

    jlego Captain

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    Not meaning to pile on here, and this isn't aimed at any particular person, but there seems to be a general thing of "edit x file to do y" in this game. It's really unhelpful. Most players aren't comfortable doing this, and it's way too easy to introduce errors into YAML files (which often results in a CoQ, and many players will have no idea of the cause because... well, YAML). Also for someone like me who is comfortable, it's a pain having to edit files when I want to play a game, not sit delving into game files to work out what does what.

    I'm not exactly short of options for games to play - if editing files were necessary, I'd just end up going to play something else because spending upwards of an hour fiddling with files to fix someone else's game is not my idea of fun, and that's with me 3,500 hours into this game.
     
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  9. RazzleWin

    RazzleWin Captain

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    No you can't and a lot of games have tried. In saying that. It wouldn't help to satisfy as many people's play styles as possible. This allows for more people to enjoy the game quicker.
    Mate I remember the days when I was called a hacker just because I could edit game files. Back before the general public found out about computer games. Where a women was unheard of and when there was a women in the group it sent up gasps around the lan room.

    Those days are gone. We want more options so we can one night play an easy game to relax and then quickly setup a different game for the weekend so every red dot is a picture of our boss :mad:
    Yes you gave another option. That's not a bad thing! But please allow yourself to see the flip side of the coin. I have already lived days like your asking. I'm ready to move on.:D
     
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  10. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    Also, if players start editing their files it ruins any attempts at bug finding and fixing by the dev team as they now need to contend with whether an unauthorized change caused a particular bug or it's a natural one.
    Which is kind of in the same vein as people who post negative feedback on features they've disabled in their game (e.g. mass and volume). Which is akin to a ordering a pizza with no cheese or sauce and then complaining that it's boring and flavorless and blaming the base and remaining toppings.
     
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  11. jlego

    jlego Captain

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    Good point, there are a number of bugs I've seen where the devs have had to ask if a particular file or group of files has been edited. And of course, config.ecf is a common source of some issues and that's a file players are "allowed" to change.
     
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  12. Luzillus

    Luzillus Lieutenant

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    Please do not misssunderstand me. If i can change Settings without Editing i will find it greatful. ATM we have Settings, that give us e few possibilities.

    Yes Editing can be a Source of Errors! And i dont wrote, that ppl must do it. You have the Opinion to do it, the chance. We are free to do it, to edit and change most of Settings in the Game. It is one more reason why i love this Game.

    The Game is in development. We can assist the progress, with idea´s and suggestions.

    My Suggestion is: Let the Survivaltool Settings as it is in the A10 Exp. I find it ok.

    This is in my Mind, and not rule for all:) A Different opinion is good and i can learn from that.
     
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  13. jlego

    jlego Captain

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    And please don't take offence at what I wrote - like I said, it wasn't aimed at you specifically, there have been things far more broken than this where people have suggested editing files to fix it, and I was aiming more generally at that.
     
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  14. Syncretos

    Syncretos Lieutenant

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    Making the game accessible enough to prevent new Steam users from returning it is a worthwhile goal - it's what keeps the company afloat. And being able to tweak the difficulty - ideally through the GUI, but YAML in worst case - also helps a lot.

    But upping the game difficulty doesn't seem to increase the "survival" difficulty - it turns the monsters into less-realistic hit sponges, lengthens the xp grind, or requires squatting in front of a constructor waiting for it to finish. The survival related difficulty settings in the GUI only affect consumption of food and O2, and the impact of radiation and temperature - useful, but undermined by the quality of our tools:

    From your pocket constructor, you can build
    * a heater/cooler which requires no power and stabilizes temperature and emits a little light
    * a better constructor which requires no power but can make fuel cells from two of the most common materials on starter worlds (fiber and wood)
    * an O2 and water generator which runs for quite a while on a single cell generated from that constructor,
    * a collapsible tent to fast-forward past night
    * the Ultratool.

    None of these costs more than a few rocks or bits of wood, and the Ultratool only requires a few nail clippings and some back hair. With this set of devices placed, it's a stretch - at any difficulty level - to call this survival.

    It's camping.

    But maybe that's what the developers are trying to tell us? Survival in the far future may not consist of searching for a rock to bash predators while we search for a bigger or sharper rock; maybe we really are safe from the environment, and only have to worry about aliens. Seems a little counter-intuitive, though - especially for a game with "survival" in the title - but maybe once it hits release, there will be some good mods that bring the survival aspect back.
     
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  15. T431

    T431 Captain

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    I think this push away from the early game is only warranted if there is more of a mid and end game. In my ideal vision of this game as you get further along and basic survival is no longer really on your mind, you shift your focus to other things, like trading, missions, more spacesim like stuff. Maybe even an all out war against the Zirax, where you have to take down an entire Zirax force to liberate a system.
     
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  16. hound

    hound Captain

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    I find it humorous that all of you are now so upset with the devs when earlier in the cycle when we had INSTA death from cold or space or animals or zirax is was just ok.......maybe we will meet somewhere in the middle.
     
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  17. Ballard

    Ballard Rear Admiral

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  18. Syncretos

    Syncretos Lieutenant

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    I and many others argued long and loud over the silliness of insta-freeze in space. Insta-death from mobs is also not ok, though not directly related to the survival aspect in any case - it's more of a shooter difficulty issue.

    I sincerely hope so!
     
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  19. Evolvei

    Evolvei Commander

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    I do not classify endless digging for ore as survival.
    Survival can also mean staying alive when raiding alien bases, staying alive against the other factions, staying alive in space, staying alive vs diseases & medical conditions.

    Does seem like something is missing early game. Perhaps more aggressive wildlife away from the starter area.
    I think we need more "survival" ideas that has nothing to do with digging for ore with the exception of possibly more ore types later on.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  20. Slipstream

    Slipstream Captain

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    Personally, I would like to see more of the pre-base-encampment time period. Tent, survival food, parts. A bit of a nomadic life where you can pick up and set down while you explore, etc.

    I'd like to see some more placeables:

    The tent have some BASIC medical functionality with a cool-down period (emergency temperature adjustment, removal of low-level debuffs) and perhaps count as a respawn/home point. Optionally, the tent could give a BUFF instead (to represent 'sleep', instead of fast-forwarding the clock).

    Alternatively, this could be a "better" tent that could be made only in the survival constructor, and/or remove the tent from the suit constructor.

    Some form of animal-repelling field that would prevent low-level spawns in the immediate area. Would run on bio-fuel.

    Possibly a portable solar panel that could 'collect' small fuel packs over time. Trying to avoid having to 'link' existing equipment to a power source.



    And, for giggles:

    Keep the motorcycle. Maybe make it a hovercycle, but I still love driving around with it! Should use bio-fuel.

    Placeable tables/chairs we can sit in. One can hope. :D

    Fishing. Today I saw a boat doing fish sampling by zapping the water. A 'fishing weir' water-placeable that would generate meat and parts might be neat!


    --Brian
     
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