Please Elon team. Please repair the game.....

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by zappe21, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. zappe21

    zappe21 Ensign

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    I have played this game for so long that i cant remember anymore....5k+ hours....

    This game has been failing constantly since your big puch for 6.0.
    The 6.0 patch was the worst i have ever played. And i am very sorry to say that the buggs made almost all players leave the game. Multiplayer is dead now. Even HWS is more or less empty with only 20-30 players online during primetime. We are used to 100+ since 5.0.

    I admire people like Rexxxus and Jascha on HWS that have the guts to keep on going with HWS servers even when its the core of the game that cant be fixed. They do so much to help us players but they dont control the code. You do!

    So what needs to be fixed ? ALOT. The list is so long.....

    1: Well maybe SV´s should fire even when reversing ? (What happend there. it stoped working in 6.7)

    2: Compleate overhall on guns / damage. Its a joke today. Even if we build class one ships we can fire like 1000 missiles and still not kill a HV / SV. It takes like 45 min to kill something and often then you are lucky to get a lucky shot for the core (lag shot). And if we talk about CV´s it even worse. Even when something stand still it takes like 5 min to brake the armor with ALL guns shooting.

    3: Bases are a joke.Last buff was 10% longer range when they maybe need 50%.
    You take out any base with a propper HV / SV singelhanded. Guns are firing longer now but still an hv has so much armor that they can tank 2-3 bases and just sit there. Maybe add more guns to bases. Not unlimited but more then on a cv.

    These are core things that make pvp totaly dead today. And pvp is something alot of players want.

    I dont have all the answers to how to fix this due to the fact that i cant program ****. But maybe start by fixing stuff that is broken before adding more new stuff. We love the new stuff but we are realy trying to find any game play with all that is broken.

    Is there any information from you on what you are building on or trying to repair ? Information is power. If people know that things are being checked at maybe they stay. But for now you are loosing the hard core players that you have had from the start. People are sick of waiting and not getting information.

    Best of luck

    Zappe21
     
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  2. A.F.T

    A.F.T Grand Admiral

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    I see that too. I played over 3k hours and more 1k hours on HWS. It is a best server with good online and community but now it is "empty". Many people leave this game. So i completly agree with Zappe.

    IDK how but playing in pre-alpha and firtst alphas be more interesting (even with big crashes and other bugs). Alpha to alpha gameplay and especial PVP is dying. And worst come from 5.1! Missile trails, thruster flares and etc - after it pfs drops heavly. But after 6.0 we have game unplayble. Big long CV cannot fly with out death lags with docked SV (goodbye carriers). CV fights - it is madness - we can fight by hours before we start booring or all turrets are goan. Now good combat CV cannont be killed - it is just warp out when fight goes booring. SV do not shoot in the space (SV fly faster then itself missiles, railguns do not shoot). Damage goes wrong - need hours to kill medium sized SV (and spend 2-3k missiles for it). Moving HV do not taking damage as is should. BA - it is "paper house" 1 SV class 1 can kill any base. And in alpha 6.6 HV have the same speed that SV - wtf? And what we have with RELOADING? why my ammo dissapear? Again old bug.

    Maybe you DEVS stuck in the code? Or cannot fix MP game part? - So just tell us truth. I see again in alpha 7.0 - new textures and other good looking wrapper features. So you decide make only SINGLE player PVE game with good picture and ruin the MP and other game features? Where the radar? Shields? Planets without green barrier? Where the new (really new features?). I look at my old pre alpha screenshoots and i see good picture with out death lags. In that times we can freely fight in space on 5-6 CV with 100 turrets. But now 2-3 CV battle cause sometimes big problems for perfomance.

    But i hope sometimes you gather strength and fix all of it - good luck.
     
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  3. Blackwing

    Blackwing Lieutenant

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    As i'm so fed up repeating what needs to be done for MP/PVP since more than a year here and on HWS, i will just say i completly agree with Zappe and AFT.

    Time to speed up things Eleon pls.

    Thanks in advance.
     
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  4. rucky

    rucky Rear Admiral

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    First I have to admit, I'm a pure Solo / Coop PVE player, but some points also affects us.

    Indeed. Even more, Moving sideways hinders Weapons too.
    If not already done, I will make a Bug report about that.
    I'm sure, this has something to do with checking if Blocks are infront of weapons, as they tried to fix that in 6.6
    Edit: Bug reported.

    Not only Big long CVs. Mine is only a Class 5, Size is 74x74x34m and it lags as hell with my docked Fighters (and I'm playing solo only) even with no other Drones etc. on the playfield (anymore).
    But I think this is known to the Devs.

    But this is a bit overreacting ;-) Steamgraph/spy still show many players (with the usual up and downs between patches).

    Absolutely. :)
    And there will be something wrong if my "Mark 5" with 102t, 18Guns, 56m/s² lateral accel, Pich/Yaw around 10deg/s² and class 1 would/could NOT do that. :p
    (Yes I'm talking PVE here)
     
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    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
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  5. Elfias

    Elfias Commander

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    Ok so lets do this.
    Frustration is high, its a bit overhelming, one has to ask how the hell you managed to mess this so badly, but its alpha in development so lets try to stay constructive even its really hard, one find it hard to not get emotional.

    1. 1: Well maybe SV´s should fire even when reversing ? (What happend there. it stoped working in 6.7)
    Yes, you messed something so terribly its...lets stay constructive. There is something really bad with SV weapons. Can only guess what is wrong. Im using BP which was working fine before 6.7. I have 2 ideas.

    A) Projectiles finaly made it to speed of cripled snail so they colide with SV once they are fired when SV is moving. That means this: when im strafing to avoid enemy fire and fire homing missiles, missile collide with my own SV before leaving chamber in which is missile launcher. Sometimes i see only 2 missiles leaving my SV, sometimes none, when i stay still its all 4. Basicly its like you target your enemy, press fire and nothing happends, no missiles fired. Frustration is so far highest since 1.5.
    Now there is one huge problem related to this, SV vs SV fight in space. While enemy is moving backwards firing missiles on me im chasing him firing missiles on him. My missiles will never reach him while im chasing him eating all missiles hes firing on me. Only thing i can do is to fly backwards and he can choose to chase me, eating all my missiles never hitting me.
    This leads to no player will ever fight in space SV vs SV as there is nothing more silly than this. Yes, its so bad it cannot be even described. This needs complete overhaul.
    Same it is with railguns, when they are a bit deeper in ship, in weapon chamber, rails projectiles never leave SV. Huge problem. In case of homing missiles they are not too deep, they are 2-3 blocks inside SV to be a bit more protected, they still takes AoE damage this deep.
    You have t

    B) New system which allows you to switch weapons while reloding is absolutly messed up. I see i have 10 ammo, press fire, nothing happends and i get stucked at WAIT. What i do is i have freshly reloaded, press fire, 1 of 4 missiles is fired, i press Reload and try to fire again. Sometimes im able to fire at least some missiles, sometimes not. I prefer to play Solitaire now. Its no go.

    Now imagine trying to fight HV which now has same mobility as SV, while its turrets are automatic. Im glad i still have my computer as in the heat of fight im tempted to take hammer and destroy my whole computer how incredibly frustrating is this.
    While its alpha in development, i dont think versions like this should be even released, we got over a ot of problems but this...how the hell is this even possible?!

    Why HV is moving at same speed as SV?
    Why missile is so slow that it collides with my own SV before it leaves 2 blocks long weapon chamber?
    And most of all why are you forcing us to use most silly weapon in empyrion so far - homing missile while there is no ECM, no chaff, no countemeassures?

    2: Compleate overhall on guns / damage.

    Currently there are 2 must have weapons. Homing stupid missiles which killed whole dogfighting and rail guns with which you can take down anything from distance. Nobody is using rest of weapons as there is no point of using them. This is disaster.

    3: Bases are a joke.Last buff was 10% longer range when they maybe need 50%.
    Im not sure if base needs longer distance, this improvement has no influence at all. While im hiding behind terrain, popping up, firing rails, descending down to hide again i dont really care about range of base, what i care about is miniguns which simply ignore any terrain, they just fire no matter the circumstances.

    What i really hate when it comes to distance is LOD of terrain. Im under fire of HV sitting in hole i dont see as its not being rendered as its too far, that HV is ignoring terrain as barrier, i cant even see that HV, I cant see tag of that HV since Get Blind Update somewhere around 3.0. Can you please do something, i would like to see real terrain, I would like to be able to see HVs which is firing at me as they clearly see me, at least algorithm for turrets sees me. I would like to see tags, factions to know what is firing at me. I dont like to be blind at all. Can i see this at least on highest detail settings please?
    While there is clearly a function which displays distance to target - sniper rifle as example - can we please get something to see how far is our target so we can guess if its in weapon range? Yeah, we dont see explosions when we hit target but we can live with it if we at least see that our weapons should hit target.
    (I hope 7.0 and terrain generation changes will allow you to do something with this as its just insane...)

    Yes I promised myself ill be polite, but this is rage. Im sorry for that but maybe you will realise how HUGE problem is this for any multiplayer player. Are you going to play Empyrion today to have some pew pew? No thank you very much, not under these conditions even if you will pay me for that... I just dont understand why release this, just why?! It took 30s to see something is terribly wrong, 30s...
    For singleplayer its not that importand, game is quite good in SP already but MP...i just cant understand this at all.
    Come on guys, you doing good job usually, there are always some problems but this?

    P.S: Im sorry for my rant but this is complete kill of MP, since patch 6.7 i forced myself to fight 2 times, in both fights i got so mad i had to switch off the game. I hope you understand you made MP PvP game unplayable, please take a look at all this, as you killed the game for us. Thnak you, good luck and smooth fixing.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  6. Furious Hellfire

    Furious Hellfire Rear Admiral

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    I agree with some of whats been said here, I too have had the displeasure of watching some things go bad, but also some things go good. and still really old silly visual bugs around that should be gone, those piss me off most !

    ATM We are aware that eleon has had to rewrite a lot of the game mechanics to get 6.0 running and then onto 7.0
    A lot of stuff had to be recalculated and reprogrammed.

    I can understand why we have so many issues as they gradually work there way to balancing the game.

    Single player is being focused on and this is good because we need a fully functioning mathematically correct single player before multiplayer can be made as stable as it can be.

    This game is not sold under the pretense that it is just a multiplayer game.

    The single player mode has to be as perfect as it can be ready for release, remember multiplayer is optional & not a mandatory part of the game.

    I think in the beginning eleon focused more on multiplayer than single player ? which probably was a mistake in the long run but it was done because everyone cared only about the multiplayer aspect and the dream of this game was to be a multiplayer universe game.
    As time goes on eleon realizes the importance of its single player mode and the impressions it will give.

    If you had no internet but bought this game anyway, then you would be expecting single player.

    I would like to presume that over time, most of the issues raised in this thread will be stabilized , and the multiplayer will be more functional than it is now.

    I guess we can only wait and see, 1 thing I do know for certain though is that this thread will do nothing to promote change !

    Been there done it, and the answers will always be, its in the pipeline but further down...

    I have never been an alpha game player before, I have learnt from playing empyrion that patience is damn key if your playing an alpha game, I no longer consider myself a player of empyrion, I consider myself a tester :s
    As such I dont give a **** anymore about the bugs that annoyed me during survival, I just build stuff for workshop and add new features as they appear.
    It has been maybe 2 -3 months since I played an actual survival game.
    This is good for me as I wont be having restarts from updates or getting annoyed at new bugs in survival such as unlimited picks of certain objects.
    I will bide my time until the game is more stable, then I will play, and it will feel good because I have not played for some time :D

    I feel the pain of all of you in this thread, but admins and staff will just look at this thread and joke about it in a discord somewhere ^-^
     
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  7. Mak

    Mak Ensign

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    I completely agree with @zappe21 and @A.F.T game is already dying after the latest updates and lags which occur because of these updates.
    Right now, many will begin to write what is wrong and all is well( these are the people who play on PVE), but then why do we need the multiplayer if there is no PVP ?, if you want PVE then create survial and play by yourself on your server.
     
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  8. Loke

    Loke Ensign

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    I too agree with Zappe here. Its nice to get new chiny items into the game but the core game-mechanics need much more attention and balancing! It seems like for the newer patches the core game-mechanics get worse......I understand its in alpha phase but when the game go "backwards" we loose alot of multiplayer players on the servers due to frustration. Hope you @Eleon can look into this for the sake of the multiplayer players!

    Good programming at good speed!

    Waiting in excitement for future releases!

    Sincerely

    Loke
     
    #8
  9. Elfias

    Elfias Commander

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    The high frustration is amongst other things caused by this "just throw it in and see how it works" attitude. It feels like "we dont care at all"

    Example:
    I have Hv with all the turrets targeting automaticaly. Firepower is quite impresive compared to now not shooting at all SV. But even when SV would be shooting properly its still same manual 4 weapons against all the turrets.

    Eleon reaction:
    Guys lets make that HV with all this impressive firepower move at same speed as SV. Everybody from PvP would say imediatly...are you insane or what? This is not about ALpha or anything, its just about 5 seconds of thinking...guys but HV is alredy pretty strong, advantage for SV is only its mobility. You cant take it away.

    This is not rocket science, how can this change made it to public release? I simply cant wrap my mind around it.

    Of course it can be unintentional bug, thats only reasonable explanation, because if somebody intentionaly decided to do this change there is absolutly no chance this game will ever be even close to some balance. But we cant know the reason so there is no wonder we are upset. From our perspective of PvP players it looks like someone is a bit too much...
     
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    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  10. Loke

    Loke Ensign

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    Just a sidenote/question to Eleon, can we expect rotator blocks in the future? Need that to make "transformer" ships....:)
     
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  11. Christianholmes

    Christianholmes Captain

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    Guys,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_development#Alpha

    They are finishing the features. Hopefully beta my next spring. That's when the real bug squashing/optimization occurs. They're literally not going to be doing any non CTD/game breaking bug fixes until it's feature complete. It's still alpha. That link will explain how this works. I think if they had a roadmap on the front page, it should literally be a time line showing the current stage, and estimated (dynamic) completion date, and rough overview of each phase. Kind of like the pizza meter at dominos mixed with a history book timeline.
     
    #11
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  12. _Vyrus_

    _Vyrus_ Lieutenant

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    I agree with a few points so I'll list those first:
    SV weapons colliding with own sv when strafing/not firing at all when moving certain directions. Definitely annoying, agreed.

    That's it.

    Bases, depend on the structure. There's a few bases I've watched get destroyed by one player in an hour, there's others where the "base" is actually independent modules placed together with dozens of turret arrays on every square meter of the planet so that ships can't even enter the atmosphere without getting cored in seconds. I build this way now myself, and sometimes just spawn a few dozen turret towers on a pvp planet as I'm leaving JUST to hear the "WTF" in chat at a later date when someone enters the orbit and is immediately targeted and shot down by 16-30+ turret towers maxed out with armament (on a planet I don't even care about because resource hording is real and what's a couple million ingots anyways?) The biggest issue with bases is, as you said weapons need longer range, and that everyone digs under them and uses terrain exploits to get past defenses.

    Most of the pvp issues stem from the server design. What's the purpose? Seems like on 90% of the servers it's to wipe offline people off the server. There's no actual Player vs PLAYER, it's all player vs offline-players-structure. Every planet can be strip-mined, there's no sense of team or faction play so like in every other survival/craft/combat game like this we watch as the "pvp" that happens is offline raiders until people don't even want to build or leave pve zones, except the huge clans or the raiders themselves. The "casual" population, which EVERY game needs to survive long-term, gets tossed aside in the complete FFA full-loot anarchy leaving servers bleeding players until the only ones left are the "hardcore" raiders going around looking for structures they can decimate in an empty system.

    Darkfall was a fantasy version of this, full loot, ffa pvp, anarchy (even though it had factions everyone could ally/enemy everyone so everyone eventually just ended up a murderous pirate backstabbing each other, allying just to spy or infiltrate the base before breaking the alliance and tearing it apart with his raider buddies. Rust.... we all know how that game goes. Epitome of a toxic environment.

    Moreover, when we know that anytime we're not online someone is going to waltz in and PvE all of our time spent into nothingness by the next time we're awake and able to log in, why would your average person ever leave PvE areas? Almost every server has every resource necessary to build anything easily accessed by the PvE areas. Again, server design.

    Yes, there's some definite issues with the game still, no argument there.
    No, I don't consider them "gamebreaking", I could play the current incarnation of the game for the next few years happily as it's still offering MORE potential gaming experiences than almost any other game in existence currently.
    The vast majority of "pvp" issues come from server settings imo, as they don't promote PvP but PvB, or PvOfflinePlayersStuff and have no sense of team-vs-team, are giant anarchist ffa pirate/raider hubs at best, and give no reason for people to be out and about DOING things once they reach a minimal amount of establishment (a few base defenses, somewhere to refine/craft, steady food production, autominers). Once you have that stuff on 99% of the servers out there you have no reason to ever need to leave and can happily farm/build everything you want right where you're at.

    But, that's just like, my opinion, man. ;)
     
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  13. Extaz93

    Extaz93 Ensign

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    I agree with most of what zappe21 said in the first post.

    Take your time, but don't forget to fix PVP and MP.
    We can wait : Empyrion is one of the most exciting game i have ever played.
    But it needs loads of work.
    It's not just about graphics, sound design, planet and seeds algorithm, survival craft recipes.
    It's mostly about engine mechanics, optimization, balance, and keeping fun in fights.
     
    #13
  14. Kogami

    Kogami Lieutenant

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    I have to agree, I feel sad that this amazing game that I'v spent 3k hours on has not gone through beta yet. Optimizing the core mechanics would make the game in general 10X more fun to play, and it's already an amazing game, but instead of thousands of players there could be hundreds of thousands of players if it was just more stable, I know a lot of friends that say they will only try Empyrion out when it comes out of beta.

    The biggest lag contributor is turrets, when eve online faced a similar situation they used turret groupings, so that they all shared the same tracking animation and shot in burst fire with all projectiles as a single animation as well, the outcome from this change made slightly laggy 30 man fights into slightly laggy 200 man fights, it's worth testing in Empyrion. Also 40 turrets on a Cv is just overkill they do no damage dont track well becuase of slow projectile speed and their lag to action ratio is horrible, a better solution will be to have only 8 turrets per CV that do more damage per shot, better would be if you get a bonus for using 8 of the same turret type EG 8 rockets together give +100% projectile speed or 8X minigun turrets gave 100% damage bonus.

    Shields is also something that will have a massive impact on performance, as each collision will only have to interact with a single shield instead of each block in its aoe.

    The terrain changes using height maps in 7.0 is great and a step in the right direction! so praises for that.

    I understand that you need to cater to new players with new content as that is the only source of revenue but I ask please don't leave your long term players in the dark.

    Thank you.
     
    #14
  15. Nauttdog (naut-T-dog)

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    You forgot the most important thing. You cant get more than 5 people together to fight because it will LAG. How many times on HWS server have we tried to have some big fights but it just fails because everyone lags out terribly. I don't see how multiplayer will ever work if you cant get more than a half dozen people together before it lags to hell.
     
    #15
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  16. medicineman

    medicineman Captain

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    It's so awesome that planetnomads is SP only. At least one of these survival games will work out.
     
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  17. Elfias

    Elfias Commander

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    Ok i think i was too hard. I tried a bit of singleplayer and after being killed 3 times through walls I feel like i have to apologise, there are bigger fishes to fry than MP. Well, lets just hope that some day there will be some time for problems described above. Wish you all a lot of patience and good luck to devs in fixing problems.
     
    #17
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  18. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    Oh another one of those post. Listen guys this game isn't released yet. It's a Alpha game and I know in today's world we want everything done now but if you wanted that then you should have bought a already released game. If Empyrion was already released then yes they would deserve all the negative posts on what's not fixed. This game is still in development and if you're playing like it's a finished game then technically that's not their problem it's yours. Now I agree a lot of stuff needs to be fixed in this game but I didn't buy a finished game so I expect it.
    Also the more they add stuff to this game the more you should expect certain things to stop working because that is all part of the development process.
    I the hear same complaints in Star Citizen, Space Engineers and tons of alpha and beta style games.
    Yes it's good to bring the devs attention to certain issues because they need to be reminded but this game is doing well and NO Multiplayer is not the bar on rather a game like this who has a huge single player community is doing great or not . The numbers of people who play this game is up from last year and maybe they're mostly single players but there are people playing this game.

    I do agree Multiplayer needs to be optimized enough to handle bigger CVs and needs to be able to handle a lot of players at one time but a lot of optimizations happen in beta not alpha . Also Bug fixes are always happening but Elon doesn't have a big team like other games. So somethings will take longer to fix than others.
    I will say this I've watched more than 5 players on other servers that work fine, so lets make sure its not the Server instead of blaming the game. I've Seen Multiplayer servers with 10 people running fine going after a POI.
    Although Elon is doing some optimizations as they go but I would not expect any major optimizations until after all the features are added which reading over the survey they are only 45% to 50% finished with that. So we still have a ways to go.

    I do think we need to continue to remind ELON about bugs and certain things that need to be fixed but at the same time reminds ourselves that we're playing a ALPHA game and its a long way from perfect or even stable. That will take time.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
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  19. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    Well the game has a lot of features to add before they go to Beta that a lot of long term players asked for on a survey taken last year. . SO they still have a lot to add to this game. I would not expect Beta til next year sometime. I am a long term player myself and this game doesn't have nearly enough to go to Beta yet in my opinion. Now everything on that Survey list will make the game complete in my opinion and from what I understand everything on that list will make it in the game at some point.
    Performance should be handle in Beta but these Devs are so thoughtful because I've played other games which I was told that I need to upgrade my hardware when I spoke about performance. They didn't bother to try to make the game playable on old machines like Elon does. So I give them a lot of credit for that.
     
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  20. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Rear Admiral

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    Duke Nukem Forever was in development for 15 years. Diablo III for 11 years. StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty was only 7 years. In light of that, I think that Eleon is doing fine so far. :)
     
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