Question if Water and/or Hydrogen Generators are modable

Discussion in 'The Hangar Bay' started by me777, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. me777

    me777 Lieutenant

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    I want to mod the H2O and H2 Generators to make more for the same amount of fuel.
    Is this possible?

    (I'm on reforged eden)
    In my oppinion both the H2O and the H2 Generator are too slow and use too much energy for the amount they produce. (compared to autominers)

    I have 3 Autominer on Prometium (2 small and 1 v.small) and placed 4 H2 Generators and 2 H2O generators (80%) to get the H2 to make HydrogenFuelCells.

    I just dont get enough H2, even when I also use all the H2O too. I could place more Generators, but the amount of Fuel that would need is way too high, I'd use too much of the Output just for the H2, at that point I'm better off making normal FuelCells...

    Thanks.
     
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  2. krosbonez

    krosbonez Lieutenant

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    Just taking a guess here, but wouldn't that just be making adjustments to the HydrogenBottle template's OutputCount? I would think you would make the changes to the end product, not the generators themselves, but I could be wrong.

    { +Template Name: HydrogenBottle
    OutputCount: 10 #A1
    DeconOverride: Stop
    CraftTime: 10
    Target: "LargeC,AdvC"
    { Child Inputs
    WaterJug: 5
    SteelPlate: 2

    }
    }
     
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  3. me777

    me777 Lieutenant

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    Just tested it, this entry changes the constructor recepy, the generator still does the same 1 every 1 and odd minutes..
     
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  4. zaphodikus

    zaphodikus Captain

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    The Hydrogen generator was removed from the game, you make them in the constructor now.
    Very curious , the WaterGenerator is not configurable it seems. Is that not the one that has 2 outputs? No that's the condenser. Is there maybe is a reason it's internally hard-coded, or I'm mixing it up? I wonder if the old entity and all exists somewhere in an archive from log ago.
     
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  5. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    There is no way to speed up the generator's output rate. Only option left is to modify recipes that require water/ hydrogen so they require less to make.

    Or...

    .... simply change the "waterJug" or "O2" recipe (template) with any components you want. :D

    { +Template Name: WaterBottle
    OutputCount: 10
    CraftTime: 5
    Target: "FoodP,SurvC,SmallC,HoverC,BaseC,LargeC,AdvC"
    { Child Inputs
    WaterJug: 0 << do not delete > just write '' 0 '' instead
    Fiber: 1 << add any component you want ( try to stay coherent, don't put devices here)

    }
    }

    ------------------------

    { +Template Name: HydrogenBottle
    OutputCount: 10 #A1
    DeconOverride: Stop
    CraftTime: 10
    Target: "LargeC,AdvC"
    { Child Inputs
    WaterJug: 0 << do not delete, write '' 0 '' instead
    SteelPlate: 1 << same here as for the previous example

    }
    }

    --------------------------

    I just gave these as examples, but you can put any component you want. If you change recipes, change them in the "templates.ecf" files, not in the "config.ecf". Also be sure to not delete a "Child Input" (you can add) and instead just put the required amounts to zero.


    .
     
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    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  6. me777

    me777 Lieutenant

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    Hmm, that's what I wanted to avoid, messing with reforged eden settings...
    and about the Hydrogen Generator, its back in RG/RE, so I tested it.

    The Hydrogen Generator is next to useless then, it produces about 1 H2 every 2 minutes and i need 20 of those and 5 promethium ore per hydrocell (and my autominer needs 12 seconds per prometium ore on a small deposit) If I use H2O its better, 1 per 2 minutes, but i get 10 H2 per 5 H2O. I'd still need 20 Water extractors per autominer. (or 40 H2 ones)

    I will crosspost in Reforged Galaxy Thread, to ask if my conclusion is right...
    Maybe I'm suposed to not make the hydrocells in large numbers and just make the plain ones....
     
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  7. zaphodikus

    zaphodikus Captain

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    @me777 You might try change the time it takes and the output count, as shown above by Kassonade in that case. Although......

    I'm not playing that scenario now, you can try change

    # Produces only hydrogen now
    { +Block Id: 706, Name: OxygenHydrogenGenerator, Ref: OxygenGenerator
    Class: O2H2Generator
    Model: @models/Blocks/Terrain/OxygenHydrogenGeneratorPrefab
    Mesh-Damage-1: Mesh/D0
    Mesh-Damage-2: Mesh/D1
    Mesh-Damage-3: Mesh/D2
    Mesh-Damage-4: Mesh/D3
    Info: bkiOxygenHydrogenGenerator, display: true
    BlockColor: "45,90,45"
    EnergyIn: 100, type: int, display: true, formatter: Watt # < change this to 50 to get double the bottles for same input energy materials
    StackSize: 1000
    CanPickup: true
    XpFactor: 0 # to avoid farming of xp through placement/pickup cycle
    ForceNoPvEDamage: true
    Category: Devices
    AllowPlacingAt: Terrain, display: true
    SizeInBlocks: "1,2,3", display: true # removed to avoid problem with "cutting out water"
    Volume: 400, type: float, display: true, formatter: Liter
    Mass: 610, type: float, display: true, formatter: Kilogram
    UnlockCost: 12, display: true
    UnlockLevel: 20, display: true
    TechTreeParent: OxygenGenerator
    TechTreeNames: Misc

    MapIcon: map_OxyGenerator2
    MapName: OxygenHydrogenGenerator

    Temperature: 30, display: true

    ShowUser: Yes
    }

    Hope that is something you can follow?
     
    #7
  8. me777

    me777 Lieutenant

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    Yes, I noticed it takess 100W instead of the 30W the O2 and H2O use, but I wanted to avoid placing 40+ of them.
    The 100W would be OK if it had more output... As is I would have to put it to 2 or 3.

    (Also I had like 25 of the waterextractors in my last Savegame and I had to mute sound bevore I went near them. And not least its 40 times the work to collect from 40 generators)

    About messing with the templates: I dont want to do that without really knowing why it is set this way in the first place.
    (and it would be overwritten when the scenario is updated)

    I do think changing the template is a way to work around this, and I understand those enough.
    But maybe its intentional and then i rather make the normal prometium cells instead.
     
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  9. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Unfortunately this will not speed up the process, it will only use less energy (fuel) to get to the same result over time = X bottles per Y amount of time. The generator can work longer if it requires less energy but it will output the same amount per time unit.

    Edit : forgive my previous paragraph. That is exactly what the OP is about (more units for same fuel input) and it's just going to take the same time. ^^

    @me777 : the various values in the game (vanilla) were not really balanced for any other reasons than to make players lose time on futile tasks. This has been mentioned a zillion times on the forum : making the game more grindy =/= more content. It's easy to see how some poeple equate "time spent in game =/= lots of content" but in reality lots of time is wasted waiting or doing boring and repetitive tasks.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  10. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    None of the terrain-placeable generators or autominers can have their output or power altered. Changing the stats has no effect, they always last the same amount and produce the same count of items.
    It's a broken feature that's been broken for a long time, reported and promptly ignored.
     
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  11. zaphodikus

    zaphodikus Captain

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    I'm keen to raise this again in that case. Mainly because I've intentionally nerfed solar panels to allow me to spend less time mining Promethium.

    Any chance we can change the drop rate for ores? The only way I can find, is to make either larger deposits or make the deposits more plentiful. The random "drop" does not appear to be configurable, and would extend the gameplay for longer and have fewer craters.
     
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  12. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    I did not test this, but if you do please share your findings with us !

    In the BlocksConfig.ecf we have the ''resource'' blocks, that are merged with the terrain/ deposits (search them with their name like ''copper'' or ''erestrum'') :

    { +Block Id: 79, Name: CopperResource
    Material: resourcesoft
    Shape: Terrain
    Mesh: terrain
    Texture: 177 /* rock_grey05 */
    ShowUser: No
    Group: resource
    { Child DropOnDestroy
    Item: CopperOre
    Count: "2,4" << try changing these for higher values, like ''10,20''

    Prob: 0.2 << change this also for something like 0.8
    }
    }

    My guess is the ''Count'' is a min/ max parameter, so changing these values would mean getting more ore units each time we get lucky (instead of between 2 and 4, now between 10 and 20).

    The ''Prob'' parameter must be the ''chance'' factor for the drop to happen, so closer to 1.0 = better chance.

    Do the test with high values so you can see the difference prior and after the change. Best to try on a fresh start, always.

    ----------------------------


     
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  13. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    Prob: 0.2 is 20%, Prob: 1.0 would be 100%.
    You'd get tens of thousands of ore per deposit at 1.0 so don't set that. Just 0.4 would be double what you get now.
     
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  14. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    So what ?
     
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  15. zaphodikus

    zaphodikus Captain

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    Ha Ha.

    The patience you guys have to find all of this is awesome!!!!!!!!!
    Have to test this now, will report back shortly.
     
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  16. zaphodikus

    zaphodikus Captain

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    The fields seem to have no effect so editing the vanilla BlocksConfig.ecf had no effect at all in a "Freedom" game I started to test things out.
    { +Block Id: 79, Name: CopperResource
    Material: resourcesoft
    Shape: Terrain
    Mesh: terrain
    Texture: 136 # 177 /* rock_grey05 */
    ShowUser: No
    Group: resource
    { Child DropOnDestroy
    Item: CopperOre
    Count: "5,10" # was "2,4"
    Prob: 0.9 # was 0.2

    }
    }

    I know the file was loaded, because changes I made lower down to the ContainerAmmoLarge did load into my game, so I'm not suffering the normal confusion of did my changes actually load. So I'm doing this wrong somehow.
     
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  17. me777

    me777 Lieutenant

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    I asked google for the figures of 10l gas bottles and H2 electrolysis from H2O...
    for 1kg H2 about 9 times the H2O is needed, so 9kg (or 9l)
    a typical H2 bottle has 2m³ (at 1 bar) that are 0.1798 kg, for that we need 1,6182 kg H2O.
    so a 20l Water canister could make 12 H2 Bottles.
    If we asume the bottles could be recycled the steel amount could stay the same (to accound for aditional bottles and replacements) and we even explained the mass-increase ;)

    So I will test how it feels ingame if I cange the template to 1 H2O and 2 steel make 12 H2 ... (and i will scrap all H2 generators)

    and those water canisters look more like the 1 m³or 1000l type annyways, increasing the volume and mass of those is another option.
     
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  18. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Ok. I just tested this myself (only with "copper"), and I did not see any notable difference doing the same changes. So I edited the LootGroups.ecf, and it seems to yield more, for the short time I mined compared to the previous attempt with just editing the blocks.

    There are 2 "copper" ore items, so I edited both, as I don't know yet which one does what and there are no explanations. I could proceed one at a time, but given that I did not see a serious jump in higher values I'm not even sure it's worth it. Unless there is a need to have high quantities of raw ore, I think it's easier and more advantageous to just edit the recipes so ore yields more ingots, as this allows also to save storage space with raw ore.

    To edit the loot groups ( "not yet dropped" and "new loot groups - common" ) it's the same system, a "count" range (x,y) and a probability from 0.0 to 1.0.

    .
     
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  19. zaphodikus

    zaphodikus Captain

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    I'm thinking you are 100% right @Kassonade, feels a bit limiting (not really to be honest), but boosting the ingots recipe feels the simpler way to get the desired outcome.
    Someone intentionally increased the chances for iron

    Item_0: IronOre, param1: "10,20", param2: 0.4
    Item_1: CobaltOre, param1: "10,20", param2: 0.4
    Item_2: CopperOre, param1: "10,15", param2: 0.3
    Item_3: SiliconOre, param1: "10,15", param2: 0.3

    Although my drawing of a quick table recording of drops earlier today is not even tallying with the drops in the config file, so beginning to suspect it's another config value that does not work. I'll edit mine so long anyway to see if it does make a difference though.
     
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  20. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    In fact it's the only "reliable" way to get proper control on results, as mining is a compound of "lucky strikes" from the drill's factor, the deposit/ "loot" factor, and each block's factor. I did see numbers, in my last attempt, ranging from 4 to 55, but since they also changed the way "collection" works, we can't see if these numbers are "cumulative" or "individual", so I had to rely on a rough time estimate to see I gathered the same amount as previously (+/- 500 ores) in roughly half the time, even though I more than doubled all values (Count AND probability).

    By editing the recipes we only have 1 or 2 values to change, and results are clear.
     
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