Feedback Required Scenario: Stranded at Nemesis (Survival Challenge)

Discussion in 'FAQ & Feedback' started by Hummel-o-War, Aug 1, 2022.

  1. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    @Scoob,
    Thanks for your very detailed story about the ship capture route, I highly appreciate :)
    I must admit that I'm far away to have such knowledge, even in my normal Survival game. I recall to have read the Empyriopedia which has a Q/A about invading ships but still I cannot tell what a Patrol Ship is compared to another one, I have invaded all sort of ships in orbit in the past and if I didn't die (some ships are tough) , the successful scheme was always the same for me:

    - Destroyed the turrets, then the rear thrusters, ship comes to complete stop
    - Went away immediately out of render range, strange thing is in the map the ship is now moving like it was still on patrol
    - Returned to the ship which stops moving when I get closer, it's still dangerous because of NPCs and active weapons etc. but: NO DESPAWN anymore
    - After killing everything and coring the ship it stays there as mine but I cannot fly it, special message on the cockpit if you try.
    - Now, or I make a blueprint or in most cases: I just salvage the ship, I have infinite time and it stays there for future salvage.

    All this is true in my Survival game experience, only thing is if I skip point 2 and 3 then the ship will despawn (I don't make it to the core in many cases). It was pure chance that I noticed long ago that going out of render range and returning will avoid its despawn, I don't pretend to understand why (according to Empyriopedia it should despawn after some minutes which it does when not doing the render trick). According to you it's all different in Nemesis. I think the bug you mention does injustice to you, what YOU own should not despawn anymore and I agree totally. I will of course go through all this to see it with my eyes and try to cope with it, although it's now more than clear that it's not meant as a intended solution for the scenario.
     
    #61
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
  2. Lil Groot

    Lil Groot Ensign

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    I completed the scenario and have to disagree with some points others made, first you don't need to have an eva to survive the trip to station the insulation boost with multi boost gives just enough time if ya don't have to deal with drones, a lil frostbite isn't permanent...lol. anyway the few things id suggest in my opinion is that it be an actual game start option or when you finish you don't just get kicked out of the save if ya wanna continue after the work put in you should be able to, kinda annoying to have put in the efforts through those challenges and not be able to do anything with it if I'm honest. maybe also sum further off space stations of other faction for trade once you get a sv, including a zirax one if ya wanna actually become a zirax spy... though please no admin cores. if were tough enough and can put in the effort and deal with the consequences we should be capable of raiding any poi!

    hope this may help :)
     
    #62
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  3. Nazo

    Nazo Ensign

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    So a bit of quick feedback on the scenario (I don't have time to read through the thread, so maybe others have the same stuff to say -- if so, sorry.)

    1. Firstly I feel like it just makes you feel way too rushed at the start with all the stuff you're supposed to read while it, meanwhile, says you only have milliseconds. Ok, you do have longer than milliseconds, but you definitely can't sit there calmly reading through scenario text while drones are closing in, ready to open fire on the ship you're in. I think maybe some of that text could be moved/copied into the scenario description so the user can read more of it beforehand and be more ready once they hit start. It doesn't have to tell the user every single little detail in the description, but I do think it should be clear enough what the options are as the user comes in that they don't even have to use the terminal to know the main three options being presented unless they just want more details.

    2. I don't know if you can actually call the station "within jetpack distance." I think that's a bit wrong. It's actually a bit too far. You're nearly 2 kilometers away at the start and in the time it takes you to get there (even assuming you even find the armor upgrades and apply them at the hard to spot armor thing almost hidden over the medical device) you have severe hypothermia causing massive trauma. The first time I tried the scenario I died because I took too long trying to deal with drones following me and shooting me while I tried to jetpack over. The second time I dealt with the drones first and then I still barely survived by making heavy usage of the starter healthkits and emergency food. The moment I got in I had to rush over to their medical facility, shower, and heal ASAP. Of course, anyone doing this isn't really looking around and taking stock of the situation (which I think you want?) It's way too hard to actually jetpack over there at that distance. I think either the distance should be shorter, or an EVA module included so it's no longer a big deal. (After all, you can buy an EVA module pretty quickly once you're there anyway as they just aren't all that terribly expensive.) An inclusion of an EVA module in particular would be the most interesting route since it clears the way for flying around fighting with drones as you go towards the station instead of having to just straightline it at maximum speed, largely ignoring the drones.

    3. The trader "in a meeting" stopped working for me after a bit. Not even an "I don't want to talk to you anymore" type of message or anything. It just outright stopped working. I'd look down at them, press the button, and my view would jerk up to level height with no dialog of any sort popping up or anything in the message box. As far as I can tell the trader just simply... broke...

    4. I'd like to see some sort of "repair" path. Nothing special. I don't mean you should be able to get the ship right up to full working shape with a bit of repairs, just that it should be possible with a bit of salvaging of components from some parts, replacement of some other low level parts (you get a few levels just from the drones anyway,) and etc to actually get the ship limping to be able to land it somewhere. That was actually what I decided I'd do (bear in mind I came originally from Space Engineers, lol) and it took me a while to realize that it's sort of just not possible with this scenario as it stands. The station doesn't sell any cobalt (I get the impression this is on purpose since the mining trader does have a spot for it, just it's always out of stock) and flux coils in particular become a major shortage issue for doing just a cockpit (which is already a problem since it requires level 7 to unlock and the drones alone don't make it very easy to get to 7.) I did actually ultimately eventually succeed in my goal in this and managed to salvage enough flux coils by sacrificing all the thrusters but one (it doesn't help that I forgot to actually core the ship since it starts out with a "friendly" core rather than player core -- but that mistake is on me for just plain forgetting, not the scenario) and salvaging from drones. (Flying a ship with just one thruster is definitely... interesting... Though, luckily, when you cut the power it forces it to stop somehow anyway, I presume to deal with the engine limitations that prevent players from moving around on a moving ship -- I sure wish that could be fixed. Especially in regards to NPC ships flying and you just go right through them like a ghost...) I think it might be better if, instead of the cockpit being gone, you need to add new thrusters or something else to go the repair route.

    I'm still working on doing things this way around and the impossibility of acquiring cobalt in particular has been a huge problem. Since it doesn't have a detector on it (and creating one is relatively high level and has relatively high resource costs compared to what little I have at this time) flying over planets, scanning, is already a bit impossible (I have to land and use my hand scanner for now) but also the heavy Zirax military presence while this ship is completely undefended is quite... discouraging. I presume I'd have to go to the moon (Nemesis seems to mostly have stuff like erestrum and promethium other than some carbon and rarely some iron rocks) but it says that it has a heavy presence of hostiles, so I'm not exactly rushing to get there in a ship that has no shield or weaponry and only one thruster. I do feel like the "repair the ship and find resources" sort of route could potentially be a great fourth option versus the others presented, so perhaps some consideration of how it might be implemented might be worth at least considering. Meanwhile I will continue to brute force it, lol.

    Alternately, if you just really really don't want players to try to repair the ship but to abandon it, is not include major weapons from the start and (if possible) have drones spawn infinitely -- or at least a lot more. I guess you'd need weaker weapons (say a normal sniper rifle or a T2 or maybe even not a sniper rifle at all but an assault rifle -- definitely no plasma cannon!) I presume the game normally can't spawn infinite drones from nothing, but one of those patrol vessels that seem to spawn them might do the trick. Or even just put it on that transport vessel that patrols the area (which I presume is meant as a hidden extra possible scenario where the player tries to capture it for parts or even just to use to escape -- the only reason I haven't done this is because it's impossible to stop a moving vessel without a ship basically. It's insanely close to impossible to take out its thrusters by just sitting in its path and firing at it from time to time just in your suit -- especially since the one I got this time around has something like 10 thrusters at the rear. Since it flies faster than you can jetpack that's the only way it would be possible without a ship, but it would take half a year to do it! I presume we're supposed to fix up the suspicious pod with weaponry or something, but I wanted to have my own ship, so will be doing that instead -- which takes longer.)

    5. I'm not really sure about the suspicious escape pod. I ended up not using it since my assumption was the scenario might do something like making it lose control and go to a specific (presumably unsafe) point. (I do plan to use it out of curiosity later when it doesn't matter anymore, but at the time I skipped it.) That said, I do see a kind of immediate problem in that you can't actually build anything there. I think I recall there was a core in storage in the ship at the time and that I did get it, but no longer had it at that point. The only way to make a core is to go back to the scout and make it there (which I assume if you're going the escape pod route you're not doing, right?) It seems to me like it might make sense just to have a simple public small cargo container and small constructor in the bay available to the player (you can buy enough ores to make a core with just the stuff you can sell, so no problems there.) I got the distinct impression the scenario designers really wanted to focus on us using that pod (and again, I do plan to try to do so later just to see what happens) and if so it should be encouraged as much as possible for us to be able to actually use it. In fact, story-wise, it may just make sense to have a nearby locker with a core sitting in it (as you approach it specifically says someone has removed the core, so it fits that they might have stuck it in storage nearby) and at least a very tiny bit of fuel (just one or two promethium packs. Just enough to turn it on and get somewhere once at least.) That way even someone who panics and jumps right out the airlock to fly to the station should be able to get going in it.

    6. I think the station is actually not protected! While drones were shooting at me and hitting the station I absolutely sure that I heard the metal pings of their bullets damaging the station. I didn't check before, but I found two nearly broken windows too right in the main area where the NPCs walk. (It wasn't enough to break and vent the oxygen, but looked really close.) I haven't compared across runs yet, so maybe this is just something placed that way on purpose for effect (since the story is they bought that station very much in used condition to begin with) but I'm pretty sure the drones did it. Is this on purpose, maybe to create a scenario where a really morally bankrupt player could just take over the place on purpose? If so then nevermind, but if it's not on purpose then that possibly should be fixed. I do think this could also lead to situations such as the drones ultimately triggering the interior turrets in the docking area to fire on them though. (Or maybe not. I don't know how far the faction stuff goes internally for NPCs.) Of note, I was actually able to repair the windows (too bad I don't get +rep for that, rofl.)

    7. I did explore around Nemesis a bit and tried to gather some materials from it. (But I couldn't find cobalt -- at least not within the range I dared go from my "base" of the crashed ship with only one thruster.) In particular, the oxygen you get from the two atmospheric condensers is not enough to survive at all. Probably the water is too low too, but I wasn't down there long enough to really test how bad it would be dealing with the heat (plus most of the areas I explored were within the range of what the suit could tolerate with insulation + radiation + multi boosters installed, but I know a lot of it hits 150C, and exploring those areas would require a lot of water drinking no doubt.) I actually ran critically low on oxygen and had to leave relatively quickly just in the time I was there, but I will admit I also was keeping the garden area filled (I rebuilt it so it wouldn't leak oxygen into the rest of the ship and would only fill that 2x2 area, but even so it ran out of oxygen during the time I was there.) The condensers seemed to spend most of their time not even working at all as far as I can tell and even if I slept they barely produced anything at all. Actually, when I looked at them it seemed like they were actually turning themselves off and back on over and over or something (I assume this indicates the incredibly low "air quality" just to mean that while it's "off" it's not even getting enough oxygen or water to condense or something.) You start off with a lot of oxygen at the beginning, but I feel like by the time you could actually build a mini-base and then a small ship (especially as hard as it is to get the materials you need to actually do so) you'd be in critical trouble -- even assuming you didn't bring the ship down like I did.

    Also, I have no idea how you're going to get stuff like plant fiber down there and I'm not sure you can grab enough from just what's on the ship before you do unless you're specifically planning on doing it and start salvaging stuff like the garden blocks themselves. Project Eden has a somewhat similar scenario where you start off on a cold, dead world with basically nothing (and I might add it's a really interesting scenario since it's dangerously cold, radioactive, and completely pitch black dark) and in it you actually can get plant fibers from some sort of tree golems that show up on mountains, plus the atmospheric condensers are able to pull in enough water and oxygen that you can actually survive in their scenario, so I think something at least sort of along these lines might be semi-suitable for Nemesis. At least it could have dead trees for bits of fiber here and there anyway if not something like the tree golems, but I really think it needs to have more atmosphere to condense. In fact, when I left while critically low what I had to do was go to the station and buy everyone's water, lol. That's not something someone who jumps down to the planet at the start can actually do though... Even if the air provided at the start is enough to make it, I feel like it adds an unnecessary anxiety inducing time limit to escaping the planet. Nemesis would definitely be a very slow start for most and allowance is probably needed for this.

    As an alternative for the Nemesis start, I would suggest that it might work out well if there were an official drop point where at least some basic supplies might be found (something NOT surrounded by hostile drones and that giant patrol vessel I might add!) Perhaps even a ruined building that can be hastily repaired enough to at least make airtight to seal out the heat (and possibly setup a garden.) Then there could be more of really basic stuff like plant fibers, oxygen, etc available to a jumper to get started even with the time limit this still presents if nothing else is changed. The ship AI could inform you of its location after you land with something simple like "an old structure has been located, perhaps you can repair it enough to use" sort of message. Already the supplies you start with let you make a motorbike right off the bat, so even if you have to travel pretty far it's not unreasonable this way perhaps. I'd rather see the condensers able to produce oxygen and water at least as fast as you actually use them, but this alternative would make the scenario a lot more viable as well. Presumably once you get started enough on Nemesis you can set up a huge array of condensers I suppose, but that would require a lot of power packs (you're not going to be producing any biofuel!) so you have to establish a base, power it, and start mining promethium to really make such a thing work -- all of which takes a lot of time.


    EDIT: I built a ship and tried to capture the transport vessel that goes back and forth in a patrol. I destroyed the thrusters to make it stop, then blew the door at the back, got out and started to go through, saw a popup that I had five minutes until it would despawn, though, ok, no biggie, and then poof, the ship was gone. It wasn't even five SECONDS... Is this on purpose or a bug?
     
    #63
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  4. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    There are 2 random setups at the start, one where multiple drones are around your ship, one where only 1 is arround.
    When more drones are around they will attack and damage the wreck, destroying its core. That will cut a lot of possibilities and put the constructor out-of-usage, also the bug with the trader in the conference room will not allow you to sell that big value weapon so you can't buy essential things to take certain directions in the scenario that otherwise you could. Or is it so that this trader was never meant to be used? The bug would be that you can use it the first time (it would have been more simple to just not place a trader there.)
     
    #64
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  5. Escarli

    Escarli Rear Admiral

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    The amount of drones might be down to whatever freighter you have spawned in.
     
    #65
  6. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    I recall now that the drones did attack once I was ouside around the wreck which then leads to them firing on me - and destroying the wreck's core in the process. I can avoid that by moving directly to the station or by shooting them down, you are given powerful weapons to start. So, the drones do not hamper the scenario.
     
    #66
  7. Bollen

    Bollen Captain

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    1st half was amazing, 2nd one not so...

    Settings: Custom = Hard + Progression and Food to normal.

    Space

    1.- Found boosters (No EVA), plasma canon, shotgun and food.
    2.- Was able to take out the drones with the plasma canon, giving me enough time to read the texts from the console.
    3.- After realising there was no escape pod in the ship and weighing my options, I set out for the station.
    4.- Barely made it to the station with severe frostbite, having used all my med kits, coffee cups and food.
    5.- Spoke to angry Pol trader and assumed I wouldn't be able to trade because of reputation, so headed to the escape pod below.
    6.- After adding the Core I boarded it to discover it would not turn, only forward and backward. Cool! So that meant I could only head to the lava planet.
    7.- Went back up and changed my boosters for maximum heat and radiation protection. Then took the escape pod and headed straight down and landed on a valley.

    Planet

    8.- Immediately I started overheating! Dug a cave and constructed a cooler/heater from the stones. This was not enough, so built more.
    9.- Despite the 14 coolers and sleeping during the daytime, I kept overheating every 30 seconds or so. Quickly finishing my water bottles.
    10.- Managed to get a base started and sealed it off, but my survival O2/Water generators had consumed the little promethium I had.
    11.- At this point I just started constantly dying from overheating. The 6 survival generators were not capable of producing water at the rate I needed it.
    12.- Between deaths I managed to get the solar panels built and get the base running. At this point I was attacked and used the last of my plasma ammo.
    13.- When I went to loot one of the drones I realised that higher up on the hills the temperature was lower, damn! If only I knew before.
    14.- I abandoned the base for now and set camp up in the hills, but my O2 was running low and the Survival generators were out of fuel. I was also out of food (emergency rations).
    15.- I ran around the hills trying to find anything and came across one of the big Zirax patrols stuck on the side of a hill, which killed me immediately.
    16.- I was able to board it by digging a cave all the way to one of its openings. I found the core and blew it up with the shotgun. Found plenty of materials, some food and a bit of O2. Was also able to loot some of its parts before it despawned (wish the game didn't do that).
    17.- Now I had enough progression and materials to build an HV and set out to explore. Found an area that said "Player water spawn" or something like that. Nothing happened, don't understand what it was meant to be.
    18.- I was suddenly attacked by drones and finished all my shotgun ammo brining them down, then a troop transport appeared and I was out of ammo. The drones did not provide the appropriate loot. So died again.
    19.- Finally having made enough progression I managed to make a very basic SV, but had no fuel for it. At this point I was just dying all the time for lack of O2 and food, but managed to find a promethium deposit, hurray!!!
    20.- Died about 10 times trying to mine, because either the promethium refused to be drilled or died of overheating. But eventually had enough to at least reach orbit.

    Back to orbit and end of game, boo!


    21.- As soon as I got to orbit I was attacked by multiple drones, they made quick work of my SV and once ejected killed me pretty quickly.
    22.- I respawned nearby several times, trying to get near to collect my backpack, but they killed me every time! They were just so many and I had no ammo of any sort, not that it would've made much of a difference.
    23.- Eventually out of frustration I just respawned on the Station, which was the only other option besides Fresh Start. But of course there was nothing to be achieved here, I had nothing to trade, no money and the escape pod was obviously not there any more. I considered just jetpacking to the planet again, but that would mean starting from scratch and without any resources. The chances of reaching my old base without O2, water or food meant it was just going to be an unpleasant and frustrating experience, so I quit!

    I suggest the following improvements:

    - An EVA boost from the beginning, why would anyone go to space without a space suit???
    - The Cooler/Heaters need to be able to counteract the planetary heat, especially if you have 14 inside a cave!
    - There needs to be a way to power the O2/Water survival generators, perhaps withdrawing energy from the solar capacitors? Otherwise it's just death after death after death... It's just really boring.
    - Finally, some gameplay on the station that would allow rebuilding a little bit, perhaps some jobs you can do for them so you can get some money or something to trade.

    Hope that's useful.
     
    #67
  8. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    @Bolen,
    Nice story, IMO the lava planet is a trap, you can go to it but you will die in one way or the other. You can trade on the station, but be warned that in 1 case (coincidently the most important one) you get only 1 time the chance for a dialogue, else you should be able to trade and get an account around 3500-4000 credits which will allow you to buy things useful to get a much better continuation from there. Also, after you are done with the station, why heading to one of the planets immediatly...You have a good constructor and even a farming place, don't you?
     
    #68
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
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  9. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    Has anyone succeeded the scenario without going to either of the 2 planets? I think I can do it...If there was not this cobalt shortage :)
    The best feature of the station is that you get free oxygen...This will save you at the end if you go a certain route I think.
     
    #69
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  10. Jaskun

    Jaskun Ensign

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    Witam
    Oto mój sposób na ten scenariusz:
    Ustawienia: Standard
    1. Nie zmieniaj rdzenia wraku na "prywatny", rdzeń musi być "public".
    2. Zrób skaner i zbadaj pobliże wraku, znajdziesz parę punktów z przydatną zawartością.
    3. Przypomnij sobie, za co dostajesz punkty doświadczenia w tej grze
    4. Wykorzystaj wiedzę z punktu 3., uzyskasz 5 lvl doświadczenia.
    5. Zrób w fabryce łatwy projekt SV (blueprint), wystarczą dwa stery strumieniowe, jeden z przodu, jeden z tyłu. Do budowy możesz wykorzystać amunicję.
    6. Pomyśl, jak ustawić swój nowy SV, by dolecieć do stacji handlowej.
    7. Zabierz to, co niezbędne i najbardziej wartościowe.
    8. Leć... W czasie lotu nie wykonuj żadnych manewrów!!!
    Tym sposobem doleciałeś do stacji, gratulacje! :)
    9. Zdemontuj SV. Mało miejsca w plecaku? Fabryka wszystko zmieści.
    10. Idź handlować, im więcej zarobisz, tym lepiej. Porozmawiaj z szefem stacji handlowej, ma ciekawe informacje.
    11. Zrób ponownie w fabryce łatwy projekt SV, ale całkowicie sterowalny. Kup brakujące surowce. Zwiedzaj stację, możesz znaleźć przydatne rzeczy.
    12. Postaw swój nowy SV.
    W zasadzie na tym etapie dalsza gra jest tylko formalnością, dodam tylko, że księzyce mają wiele uroku ;)

    ENGLISH:
    The following text is automatically translated and may contain errors, sorry ...

    Hello
    Here's my way of doing this scenario:
    Settings: Standard

    1. Do not change the wreck core to "private", the core must be "public".
    2. Make a scanner and examine the vicinity of the wreckage, you will find some points with useful content.
    3. Remember what you get experience points for in this game
    4. Use the knowledge from point 3, you will get 5 lvl experience.
    5. Make an easy SV (blueprint) design at the factory, two thrusters are enough, one at the front, one at the rear. You can use ammunition to build.
    6. Think about how to set up your new SV to reach the trading station.
    7. Take what is necessary and most valuable.
    8. Fly ... Do not perform any maneuvers during the flight !!!

    You made it to the station that way, congratulations! :)

    9. Remove the SV. Little space in the backpack? The factory will fit everything.
    10. Go trade, the more you earn, the better. Talk to the head of the shopping station, he has interesting information.
    11. Make an easy SV design back in the factory but totally controllable. Buy the missing resources. Explore the station, you can find useful stuff.
    12. Put your new SV on.

    Actually, at this stage, the rest of the game is just a formality, let me just add that the moons have a lot of charm;)
     
    #70
  11. Bollen

    Bollen Captain

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    Remember, I had no EVA boost. Returning to the scout was impossible without food, meds or coffee. Also the escape pod would have been an immediate target for the drones since, unlike the Scout, it cannot be set to public
     
    #71
  12. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    You buy your food at the station and make basic food with your farming place and survival constructor. You buy the EVA booster too, and you return to the Scout the same way you went to the station - equiped with EVA booster this time. And if you encounter drones, that's good, they will give you fuel as a loot so you can run the scout for longer, there are plenty of drones spawning so you will not lack fuel...Though you must hurry, you have limited oxygen, but just in case the station gives you free O2...
    The real danger is the Zyrax transport or whatever enemy vessel, time your travel so it's far away. Also keep the drones away from the Scout if you are outside otherwise they will soon attack and destroy the core...You should be able to use the Scout as a good base until you have a *decent* SV to fly, you scrap that laughy escape pod by placing a core, it's useless otherwise. With a decent SV, then it's time to look for ressources and increase your XP points and level by going to Charron. There are other more adventurous ways to solve too. Decent SV = 4 thrusters (3 will do).
    You may think what am I talking about, 4 thrusters...How's that...But why do you think there are 2 other vessels in the hangar, just for decor?
     
    #72
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  13. Bollen

    Bollen Captain

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    Ah! That makes sense, I didn't realize I could trade there after the way the first guy treated me... Interesting strategy.

    Huh? Where...?
     
    #73
  14. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    There's a bit too much RNG in this scenario, so what worked for some might not readily work for others. Some examples:

    - Some people got an EVA Boost, making getting to the station trivial.
    - Sometimes LOADS of Drones appear right at the start.
    - Sometimes NO Drones - other than one over 1.3km away - are near the player at the start.
    - Sometimes these Drones are passive, seemingly ignoring the player.
    - Sometimes they're super-aggressive, shooting at the player the moment they poke their head out of cover.

    Other things that are hinted at but don't pan out - perhaps once again linked to a degree of RNG in regards loot:

    - It's suggested to build a basic HV or even SV before leaving the wrecked Scout CV. Not possible, the required materials are not present.
    - Lava planet is a TRAP, plain and simple, unless the player is already well-equipped.
    - The "Station is closer than you think" tip. Not it's not. It's EXACTLY the reported distance, no more, no less.

    I think it's crazy that the "solution" to getting to the station is to nearly die, while spamming various meds. That's a ridiculously cheesy way to do it. I tried it when I realised there was no way I could even build the most basic vessel from the resources available at the wrecked Scout CV. I did it, but though it was so ridiculous I reloaded, sure there must be a better way I was missing. There wasn't.

    Foreknowledge of the Station POI is very useful. I personally made a bee- line for Medical when I arrived, others might die looking for it.

    Additionally, progress get broken if the player saves / reloads at certain points. For example, I completed the scenario and was promptly thrown out to the menu - games does NOT become the usual sandbox after getting back to the fleet. That's a shame. I reloaded my save from just before I spoke to the commander and ALL dialogue options are now gone.

    Other existing game bugs can also hinder progress when thinking outside the box. I've reported on the major one previously, basically the game will despawn player assets under certain scenarios.

    The Scenario is fun, but it needs some work to give the player the multiple options it suggests it does.

    Oh, the Lava planet is a trap, as mentioned. During my very first attempt - when there were LOADS of space Drones and they were super aggressive - I had no choice but to flee right away. I managed to get to the surface of the Lava planet in the space suit, making a soft landing with well-timed jet-pack use. Yet I died about a second later, I don't know why.

    The immediate options for the player, many of which are hinted at but not actually achievable for everyone (RNG) should be:

    0) Patch up the wrecked Scout CV to secure it as a temporary base of operations (I did this)
    1) Build a basic vessel and get to the station.
    2) Find / craft and EVA Boost and get to the station.
    3) Build a somewhat decent HV and get down to the Lava planet.
    4) Build a somewhat better equipped SV and get to the Moon.

    The Moon, being far more survivable environment-wise, is very much the easier option. The Moon is very hostile when it comes to enemies though. In theory, if you have all your other stuff with you, taking that Escape Pod SV to the Moon is likely the easiest route.

    I personally ended up making the wrecked Scout CV flyable again, and took that to complete the scenario. The process was fairly involved though. I initially repaired it enough so it could barely fly then, as it can carry waaaay more than the SV (even after I'd added lots of cargo space) I used it to directly salvage into, which sped things up massively vs. shuttling back and forth with the SV.

    Note: After my first attempt appeared to have all the Drones, I thought I'd be able to use their loot to help build what I needed on my second attempt. However, I had no Drones spawning even remotely close to me on this new start. There was one Drone that I could see flying around, but it stayed at 1.3km away, never getting closer. So, no Drone loot for me.

    Interestingly though, the moment I'd done up that "escape pod" SV in to a fully flyable and armed (well, one Gatling Gun) ship and flew about 2km from the wrecked Scout CV, I had LOADS of Drones spawning all around me all of a sudden. Got some materials from these guys, but generally not anything useful for crafting the basics.

    Basically, there's massive variance with the Player's experience in this scenario, it's these variances that have the ability to create, or totally block, certain early-game options. I think with a hand-crafted Scenario like this, less has to depend on RNG. That said though, having such variation to make viable options different each play-through could be great...if it didn't eliminate all but the cheesy option lol.

    Edit: Just watching Spanj take on this scenario and it's interesting to see how RNG is impacting his gameplay. First, he appears to have plenty of Drones to shoot and loot, whereas I had none. His RNG with material returns - I salvaged the exact same components - have been somewhat more generous. I was never able to gather enough to build the basic SV, so this does show how RNG totally changes the available options.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
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  15. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    @Scoob,
    good take on the scenario, I like it, but drones and EVA booster are not very important: You get the EVA booster anyway at the station and you actually welcome the drones for the fuel they drop so you can delay abandoning the wreck Scout. Only tough drones are the Plasma drones, here you need extra attention to evade shooting, but it's manageable. The text '"Station is closer than you think" is confusing and in fact I was for a long time misreading it for a hidden teleporter or something, but it's only a hint that you can get there with your jetpack, I guess nothing else .
    Also: Before you leave the station for the last time you don't mind getting hostile with POL, so you can start to make a salvage fest I think, but this route is not for everyone :)
    As for Nemesis, the lava planet, you are warned at the console that you'd need to be a 'Legend' to succeed there...Jetpacking there is death for sure, you'd need to land at a POI and go inside immediately up for combat (only chance to evade outside enemies and weather effects)...I don't think you have control over this with a jetpack, but it's possible in theory.
     
    #75
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
  16. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Once I returned to the wrecked Scout CV with an SV, then the Drones started targetting it. Several came in and shot it up within minutes of me getting back, where they'd not gotten close - there was only one at 1.3km distance - before hand. Basically, returning with that "Escape Pod" SV seemed to be one of the triggers to spawn in Drones for me. The fuel and loot were most welcome.

    What's also interesting is how Spanj didn't appear to have any power issues, despite leaving all devices on. I had to power down every non-essential / currently in use device to save power. Without doing that I only had a few minutes of power - and of course no Fuel packs from Drones as they're weren't any for me at that stage of the game.

    I still think it pure cheese to have to rely on spamming meds to get to the station. Allowing us to find a small amount of Gold to craft and EVA boost would be better. This is my biggest gripe about the Scenario, getting to the station. The first time I tried it - not expecting it to work, just as an experiment - I did get to the station but was in a bad way. If there hadn't been a med bay - no way to know, unless you already know - I'd have died soon after arrival. Now I know death means basically NOTHING in Empyrion, but I don't play that way as this current approach of death / easy respawn was always said to be very much a place holder. I do wonder what real death will look like, or whether they've just abandoned that now... same as the Factory was very much a placeholder and intended to be something the player built to enabled the spawning in of vessels from Blueprints...

    This is a really good scenario though, especially for a first attempt at this sort of thing. I hope to see more Scenario game starts like this, with gameplay ultimately opening up into a regular game. Different Scenario for different members of the Fleet and what happened to them sort of thing. As mentioned, I'd created such game starts myself, but that was simple by making a starting save. I'd even role-play this sort of thing late-game by driving an HV off of a CV in orbit down to a planet, the goal being to get back to the CV with the HV - harder when only CV's could carry HV's!
     
    #76
  17. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    First thing I do when I repeat the scenario (of course you are wiser the 2nd time...) is to shut-off the constructor and the food processor, consumption goes down a bit from 240 to 204, not much but without other fuel from drones you can't stay there for long anyway. Also I don't touch the 'Public' setting in the P menu, I know that 'Private' allows you to salvage entire devices, but that's futile if you plan not using the factory and keeping it to 'Public' will impede drones attacking the Scout and yourself as long as you are inside. Go outside and while they attack they may well destroy the core, so you need to go away from the scout first before engaging them.
    Spanj should have visited the station first before deciding to fly there and abandoning the Scout, that's a too desperate move from him, he cuts away himself from many options, one is to see what's on the station that could help him without scrapping the Scout, but anyway his performance is perfect and a well-done video to watch.
    Going to the station the first time without EVA and using hot beverages and meds seems a horrible experience for you and many players, but I myself had only to use hot beverage and meds twice to get there, of course with the insulation booster and multi-boost equiped to improve your numbers. But here again, it depends on the RNG you are given at the start, look if the given stuff improves your body temp which will delay your health dropping (be sure to visit these containers outside the Scout, but their content is also RNG).

    I have a lot of fun to explore this scenario, and I'm not done with it for a longer time, I'm looking for different solutions, one will be to try jetpacking on Nemesis, but this will be a rage-quit festival...
     
    #77
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
  18. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I powered down everything that could be powered down - including lights and flares, which are not insignificant when really low on fuel. I then quickly salvaged any powered deco items, such as the holo displays to increase the time left even more. I did waste some power trying to build a very basic SV - just as Spanj ended up doing - however, I didn't manage to gain the resources Spanj did, I had to abort that approach.

    I only had one hot beverage (looted) and some meds for countering frost bite. I couldn't make any more of those beverages, as I lacked the ingredients. So, I initially used that one beverage to stave off the cold a few extra seconds, then counters the effects of getting too cold with the various meds, only healling fully upon arrival at the station. Cheesy... I might have mentioned that before.

    The construction of an "escape pod" type SV would have been a significantly more satisfying solution for me. Or, have that "Suspicious Escape Pod" SV locatied between the wrecked Scout CV and the Station... Perhaps a few more floating loot containers at ever increasing distances would have been cool too. I did find it a shame that there was nothing else to discover in space...well, I haven't found anything else yet... Hmm, that said, another red POI marker popped up just under 10 km from the wrecked CV, never did go and see what it was.

    Oh, I wonder if anyone has found a way to liberate any of the intact POL SV's yet... I'm sorta planning a more hostile take when it comes to dealing with those rude, unhelpful Polaris.... I suspect that station might change ownership...

    Edit: Btw, I did get lucky on my second attempt as, on the first, the Zirax CV buzzing around was an armed variant, like Spanj encountered. At one point I had at least four space Drone and the Zirax CV firing at me at once, blew the wrecked Scout CV up with just the shots that missed hitting me, poking my head out lol.

    This is the thing though, first try four+ space drones and an enemy CV shooting me up the second I popped my head out of the wreck, vs. an unarmed CV - not close enough to fire even if it were to be armed - and no space drones nearby. Quite the contrast.
     
    #78

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