stop ignoring suggestions

Discussion in 'FAQ & Feedback' started by GodOfGuns, Sep 21, 2022.

  1. GodOfGuns

    GodOfGuns Lieutenant

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    first block: while yes the slower part is ideal but sadly as shared decon stations is not possible each faction would need a base just to decon in every sector and without a secondary need for a base we are agian placing arbitrary limits on the reverse mode of a constructor(a decon is just a constructor that has a few base templates it tries to reach aytomatically)
    this idea of "manula decon" is just another arbirary stopgap idea and should be rejected as it doesn't help as a placeholder and it won't be a thing later unless you are just trying to make the game suck for balance when other methods of balance are objectively better

    second block: fixed firepower is already high enough for combat huh? what about non-combat non-player zones? minigun turrets were finally allowed for the drone defense when no player is flying it a decidedly NON-COMBAT scenario when the FIXED guns are USELESS

    third block: so? yet again we fixate on SOLAR when I simply demand ANY renewable power source NOT JUST SOLAR
    the devs have apparently admitted renewable power is on the list but funny thing is that solar power is gonna be limited to bases for the earliest basic power before you build the better options

    so basically your entire reply neglects other existing replies in the thread and makes points already addressed/debunked/made invalid
    well done buddy
     
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  2. The Big Brzezinski

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    I skimmed them. They didn't seem to be going anywhere that interested me.

    Generally, I don't find S/HV 15 mm machine gun turrets to be effective drone defense at all. They're easily overwhelmed and don't have the ranged need to prevent damage. Their best function seems to be suppressing ground targets, like predators. The only real defense small craft have against drones is constant vigilance. In really hot areas, I'll try to spam the detector at least twice a minute. That only happens in niche cases, though. Hostile drones stop being a factor once I get a shielded CV together.

    Promethium is already a renewable fuel source. You stick an autominer over a promethium spot with depletion turned off, and presto; renewable fuel. If that's not enough, you can buy fuel, raw ores, and other goodies from stations. Trade is very powerful in Empyrion. If even that isn't enough, see the power cell idea I posted. It would be able to easily convert any new power sources into fuel.
     
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  3. GodOfGuns

    GodOfGuns Lieutenant

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    while I agree that 15mm turrets tend to be useless against drones(we'd need at least a couple homing turrets for good drone defense) the point is that the devs have shown that they understand that a problem exists now and will slowly tweak which turrets are on your SV

    as for spamming the detector: dude you forget that the entire need for turrets is because a player is not there AT ALL so the detector won't do crap without players and yeah "constant vigilance" is the only option now which IS THE WHOLE ISSUE

    now as to promethium being "renewable" maybe on servers with depletion off but the entire point of "renewable alternatives" is to REMOVE THE NEED FOR ANY PROMETHIUM
    sure it is a great semi-infinite energy package that if you log on once a day or have hundreds of fuel tanks you can easily craft enough fusion cells to keep you going basically forever

    problem is that most humans have a life that prevents a daily log-on to refuel tanks and current balance prevents a ship of sensible design from lasting more than 24/48 hours and so your CV will often go dark well before you have the time to log in some days

    the need for renewable alternatives is to bypass the need to manually refuel every 24 hours just to keep the turrets searching and the grow lights glowing

    even better once we get an "autopicker" for growing fibers for a tiny bit of biofuel(maybe even autocraft and autofuel with the logistics system plans the devs already said they want but can't figure out yet

    the current problem isn't the rarity of the ore but rather the timeframe that a given set of fuel tanks will last before the self defense goes unpowered and the crops die

    maybe if your station is your grower so solar keeps that online but the turrets on the CV can't die on some locations because you had a trip where you couldn't get on the gaming pc for a few days

    heck it happens to me often enough and I have no life outside of family

    so please guys just shut up about how easy promethium is because the problem is the lack of automatic input for a system that has a practical maximum timespan

    promethium just isn't automatic yet so it doesn't matter how easy it is
     
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  4. The Big Brzezinski

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    Solar BAs are how you remove the need for any promethium. Have you not tried ending your sessions by setting up a temporary BA in an empty space sector, sticking a solar array and fridge to hold your food on it, pulling your plants, and powering down your ship? You could probably slap together a whole greenhouse using your ship's grow plots if you really want. Just because you've built your biggest ship doesn't meant you're beyond building things. You've got to get creative if you want to live out of a space camper. It's either that or design a ship with a week's worth of fuel reserves.

    I wonder what one would have to do that requires leaving a SV alone in the field for so long that you can't do in a craft more capable of defending itself. I also wonder what turret would be an effective standoff weapon against drones without being so expensive that it's not with using. If you can pay the cost of rocket and laser turrets, you can afford a CV that negates the drone threat entirely.
     
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  5. GodOfGuns

    GodOfGuns Lieutenant

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    so I have to choose to be stuck in one place or to move around with limited fuel? why must I choose?

    I already have a standard kind of edit to the game that basically lets constructors "grow" veggies that follow a chain-tree of recipes all the way to each type of ore

    but in the base "official" game there is literally no lore-friendly way outside of mining to forever power a station+you or vessel

    in the modified config set I enjoy you are allowed more than the 3 ore types that come from crushed stone and crushed stone can be "composted" from waste growth

    it is a tiny bit less lore friendly but is still more lore friendly that regenerating POI's and scheduled and triggered ore asteroid spawns

    but my point is that ALL gameplay styles that fit into the game universe should be valid if only that each one has quirks that suck to work around

    in my configs each more advanced ore needs much more crushed stone to "find" and reaches a ridiculous 5000 stone to make one gold ingot

    I modified the stacksize and volume to make this possible without being stupid to obtain

    I might add in a limitation such as water now that ice asteroids are so common and pumping water is so easy for lore balance but given my enjoyment of playstyle is a "home mothership" that can run for years on stores of stuff and local food growth and I only fly around to learn lore and sometimes stripmine an asteriod for easier crafting I doubt I will give up my balanced "home base" design.

    I am considering dropping the "fish poop ore" from fusion cells just to make crafting those packs less daunting as "fusion" implies ONLY lower elements like hydrogen getting smashed into higher ones and letting off unstable matter that boils into pure energy in the process.

    and the odd need for only 1/6th of a "fusion" cell to be hydrogen seems lore stupid to me (10 hydrogen and 50 effectively uranium).

    in real fusion once we duplicate the startup power the process will remain active on pure hydrogen isotopes and zero other fuels.

    maybe the devs can do that by adding in a "hydrogen scoop" and a "microfusion reactor"

    the reactor can be silly large like 3x3x3 or 5x5x5 so it only is useful on massive CV's or bases and transfer power to the currently deco-only capacitor (supercapacitor) to store power for BEV (battery electric vessels) in the game

    you still need to fly a lot with your CV to scoop up fuel to make the most use of fusion as water electrolysis is never gonna be as good for getting large amounts of hydrogen

    this all to say: why do you want to be limited to very specific gameplay styles and grind-based survival once you reach the same level of tech they would have in the 24th century?
     
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  6. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    If you're looking for realism, you would need a Jupiter's equivalent of fuel to power your warp drive.
     
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  7. akimzav

    akimzav Lieutenant

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    Last time I checked it was a few solar masses. That, however, is irrelevant.

    The word "realism" is rarely understood as "precisely like in real life" by those who seek a more realistic game style. It is, however, somehow, almost always understood this way by the arcade-style advocates. Sometimes, seems almost like a strawmaning to me.
    In many cases, the yearning for "realism", in fact, is about as little as internal consistency of the universe.

    In science fiction, one can add a newly-discovered natural phenomenon to the timeline, which allows some things not possible now. For example, one can introduce an effect of temporally increasing the mass of an object to decrease the energy required by the warp drive by many orders of magnitude, allowing FTL travel, not possible IRL (at least, for now).

    This does not mean that now we have permission to introduce anything we want because 'space magic', or to break internal logic of the world. (if, of course, we still want to be a sci-fi universe and not space-fantasy one.)
    Similarly to a way things work in real life, if an effect is only used for one particular thing, it means that it is either: (1) not too helpful in other places, or (b) so hard to use that it is only reasonable to implement it for this one most desired and efficient case.

    For example: when computers only began to exist, they were very expensive, and, as such, employed in places where they would be useful: trajectory calculation. Could they be used to make a messaging network like, say, twitter? Sure, they could. It would be, however, astronomically expensive, disproportional to the usefulness of such a thing. For that reason, no one did it.
    Now, a little less than a century after, we are about to have chips on milk cartons, checking if the milk is not spoiled. We don't just have cheap trajectory calculators. We have cruise missiles, smartphones, server clusters, automated anti-air systems, etc. Twitter included.

    The point is: if the whole warp technology is so inexpensive to utilize, why aren't we seeing more of it? For example, any military would kill for an FTL cruise missile that warps its target into an subnuclear plasma on contact. Everything in the game suggests that an SV could freely house and supply two CV-sized warp drives with both energy and pentaxid for that purpose. So, why doesn't this possibility affect the universe at all?
    A quick and robust fix to this internal logical inconsistency would be to crank up the energy and pentaxid requirements, and scale them with both distance and the ship's mass, while also making more powerful generators larger in size and harder to keep running.

    That is a "realism" approach. Not the jestery of "you gotta push a button to breathe" or a "FTL does not exist IRL and should be removed from the game", no. It's about scales, orders of magnitude, layers of resource management and, as such, a real-life-like decision making, planning and design paradigms.
     
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  8. GodOfGuns

    GodOfGuns Lieutenant

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    hmm not entirely true

    we have no realistic metric for the time it takes to warp as the warping is done in such a way to cosmetically cover up swapping maps

    it could take hours at <99% light speed or seconds at nearly 100% light speed

    the real point is to make it "believable" by following a set of rules that bind all aspects of that universe

    in the universe of "empyrion" warp travel is possible so that the time to reach other locations isn't greater than the lifespan of a human

    however we get no metric over the actual speed reached or the beneficial effect of the warp device

    we don't even get a real power consumption of the warp device nor a real metric of mass or the gravitational constant

    it does SEEM to be in Grams, Newtons, and Watts but if you look at the metrics for how much energy to run the food processor just to cook a steak it isn't quite lined up with our universe

    plus in this universe there is no need for reaction mass tanks even if it is doing something clever

    so we must assume this fictional universe has a seperate set of rules that govern thrust and energy

    so would there even be a "speed of light limit" in a universe without reaction mass or with ion thrusters that are orders of magnitude more efficient?

    we must therefore consider that this fictional rule set is based on our understanding of our universe with simple tweaks to make space travel easy

    so we dump the speed of light limit and energy to thrust limitations and instead set an arbitrary number for power to thrust rather than a realistic exponential energy curve

    so mass of jupiter/several solar masses? obviously not as the rules of physics in this fiction don't work that way
     
    #48
  9. The Big Brzezinski

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    If you're willing to make your own scenario by changing config files, why don't you just fix the issue yourself, and turn solar panels into blocks with negative power consumption like they are in RE? You don't want to go through the trouble of setting up and tearing down a temporary solar fridge BA. I wonder how much better it would be to pick out a new parking spot with enough sun to keep the ship going whenever you logged off. I know I'd be worried I had guessed wrong the whole time.
     
    #49
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  10. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    It's even more annoying than that, as solar on CV is only updated when the ship is unloaded and then reloaded (a playfield change, or move out of render range then back in render range, or reload the game). So you have to park your ship, quit, then reload the game to get it to calculate the updated solar output.
    This also means you can do this trick, then fly around to the dark side of the planet and as long as you stay near your ship you'll have full solar output the entire time.
    There's multiple problems with solar on CV even if you ignore the whole "delete parts of your ship" issue. So I don't want them to even try to put real solar on their ships or they'd be back here complaining that something went wrong.
     
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  11. GodOfGuns

    GodOfGuns Lieutenant

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    hmm except solar has a "chunk delete" bug when placed on mobile devices so it is not stable enough to edit in

    also why would I set a negative value? that would just siphon power from the system for no benefit

    and the next reply says a good reason why solar is not exactly a good idea by a quirk I kinda like but do not want in my personal server

    well ravien if the "delete parts of your ship" bug wasn't a thing that update delay (most likely will also trigger on ship structure file editing as bases don't move so there was no reason to trigger more updates when the base won't change rotation) this might be considered a feature as some players may want a hidden location to park a CV that is away from enemies but has massive solar where there is no sun

    though I agree it is too broken to be used in place of a future system

    yet again we get a reply that pretends the bugs of some config edits don't exist to say "if you will already edit the game why don't you add what you want" but they forget that those bugs make a stable game impossible so we must cope without those additions if we want a stable game

    I added the decon to CV placement but left the solar+furnace on base-only as I do see a lore-based reason to limit the furnace in my own headcannon (slag separation is best done via gravity as not many metals can take being next to hot metal slag without going weak)

    so yeah I rebalanced my own game for my own style of play by tweaking shield values and efficiency as well as player handheld guns and the easy of slow crafting of any craftable game object by adding recipie paths down to the most basic parts

    once autopickers for farms are added I may remove the recipies for those bits as it is a placeholder mod

    same for my trend to use multiple constructors set to different boxes for "precrafting" of intermediary parts with an output above 1 item and the main crafter that actually takes those prepped parts and makes the final object

    once they add a better logistics system where the crafters can use any box and place in any box but the main menu for crafting is to quene up recipies with various priorities and let the system figure out how to find the parts it needs and wait until it has the missing parts to try again
     
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  12. The Big Brzezinski

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    Meh, autoharvesting crops. I'd rather have a non-destructive picker mode for harvest modules. Let me make my space combine!

    I still wonder if the simplest QoL features, at least until unloaded playfield power consumption is more consistent, would be for fridges to preserve food even when unpowered and for plants to revert to growth stage one instead of dying. Then you could just hit Y and log off anywhere. Maybe make them the Easy Food Preservation world option, mainly for multiplayer servers.
     
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  13. GodOfGuns

    GodOfGuns Lieutenant

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    is it too much to ask for both?
    lots of us gamers tend to enjoy being a simple farmer or at the most insane those minecraft modders who setup massive overkill automated setups that have resources stack up to over 1 million on the rarest types.
    as for the unloaded consumption and preservation: yes please I want to log off before visiting my family and come back to a fridge that is 100% full of veggies I can then "compost" (using my custom crafting chain) into lots of rare metals I can then sell to make "credits"
     
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  14. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Giving a device a negative power usage will reduce your ships power consumption.
     
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  15. GodOfGuns

    GodOfGuns Lieutenant

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    hmm but solar has a "positive in" math function
    if you gave solar a negative value it would start to USE power
    unless you suggest a deco block be given a negative power consumption in order to act like an RTG? maybe I will try that someday
     
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  16. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Yes that's how solar in RE works. The solar panels are just normal blocks with a negative energy in.
     
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  17. GodOfGuns

    GodOfGuns Lieutenant

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    hmm yeah I guess so but I think a constant "negative use" on any block will just break immersion
    if I must modify consumption I will adjust the constructors/food processors to use less while active and idle
     
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  18. The Big Brzezinski

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    What, you've never heard of IRL homeowners with solar panels on their roofs receiving checks from their power company for the excess energy they generated and passed onto the grid?
     
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  19. GodOfGuns

    GodOfGuns Lieutenant

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    well yeah but there is ALWAYS wear and tear on the system and it is a complex relationship when you act like a micro-source for the grid
    in fact you will tend to get no income unless you sell more power than local fixed "maintenance" fees
    so selling to the grid is maybe slightly less hassle than selling your excess energy in other forms but you still have the baggage of "nothing lasts forever" and "there are 3 guarantees in life: (something I forget), death and taxes"

    the point of immersion breaking is that all universes (fictional and real) are bound by rules and those rules tend to be just like ours with minor cosmetic tweeks

    an object that is coded to provide power FOREVER with no degradation at all or reliance on outside systems will break immersion

    now yes with things like the minecraft nuclearcraft mod the RTG is effectively infinite but it has a byproduct of increasing the local chunk radiation poisoning so it adds back the lack of immersion (if the game wasn't so blockly cartoonish)

    just coding one of the deco blocks as "infinite power" would break immersion as it has no downsides to running it that way like all things in life

    if the devs add their own "RTG block" it will eventually degrade in output and require, say, promethium pellets as a way to repair it by perhaps the "upgrades" to the block being broken to the "outdated" version after being placed long enough and you need to re-upgrade to basically swap the decayed radiogenic material so it makes more power agian

    and if they add something like a "fusion fuel scoop" and fusion reactors you would need to fly a certain number of in-game coords around to get fuel

    if they patch solar to work reliably on a CV then it will have the drawbacks of angle and limited use for large loads

    if they add swappable or rechargeable "battery" vessels(assuming a future energy storage unlike current tech) we will need a localized set of orbital stations to "recharge"

    even my config edits for full crafting of every object in-game is balanced to be power-hungry to synth the basic veggies, wood, and ice blocks
    it takes many seconds (nearly 1 minute for 10 wood/100 ice/1 veggie) to make growing veggies more speedy and energy balanced and the food processor needs nearly 6kw just to run

    sure IRL people CAN make more energy than they use BUT it is ALWAYS in a method that doesn't break the laws of the universe and tends to require replacement after many years of passive use due to entropy

    I find the resource asteroids a tad cheeky as you actually get notified when they land AND you know exactly how many deposits each planet has even when you don't know where they all are

    for realism maybe make it like space zones where you only know what types you can find reliably(maybe even add a randomizer that has a small chance to change a standard resource type to an unlisted one)
    that way you can have a max number of active deposits of ANY type and each planet is likely to spawn it's "most common" types but has a small chance to spawn ANY type in the game(maybe blacklist ice as on any but ice/snow planets/moons would be silly)

    all in all I find a lot of arguements against my demands or suggestions for stopgap measures to be obviously flawed in ways you don't think on before posting

    so many of the obviously immoral things religious people in the usa advocate for are based in this lack of consideration and it disgusts me that people ignore nuance when it would contradict their preferences

    just look at how the pasage they always use to advocate the legal death of homosexuals is not saying what they say it does "if a man lyeth with a MALE they both shall be put to death"

    the moral issue there is based on the orginal language term used being only correctly saying "young boy" when the term "male" is used

    it says "don't rape little boys" but it also advocates the death of the child too which is stupid hence the twisted view of homosexuality being addressed in that passage when it wasn't

    please if ANYONE replies to this post DO NOT neglect ALL context and outcomes of what you suggest
     
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