Suggestion for Death Penalties

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Philipp, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Philipp

    Philipp Commander

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    I didn't wanted to upset someone with this suggestion. I understand that it is to early to think about death penalties. This was just meant to be my suggestion for it, and was meant to be just a "lets talk about stuff we could do in the future"-thing.

    Just my suggestions for death penalties:

    Dieing in a faction territory with a reputation of:
    - Hostile or Unfriendly ==> Choice of loosing 100% of your credits or all your backpack stuff.
    - Neutral ==> you have to pay 50% of your credits (money) and loose nothing from your backpack.
    - Friendly ==> you have to pay 25% of your credits (money) and loose nothing from your backpack.
    - Honored ==> you have to pay 10% of your credits (money) and loose nothing from your backpack.

    Dieing outside of a faction territory
    - You get a "sickness" that makes you move slower and increases the food and o2 you need by 50% for 10 minutes. The sickness comes from the teleport of your spirit to the next respawn point.
    - If you respawn in a POI that is not your base/vessel, you also have to pay 50% of your credits.

    There won't be a backpack anymore, if you loose your stuff it will be gone forever.

    Also, you will always have 2 choices only:

    - NORMAL respawn (with the conditions seen above)
    - FRESH START

    FRESH START gets some new conditions:
    - Your Credits will be set to 0.
    - This option has a cooldown of 60 minutes.
    - If you choose this option and you have vessels/Poi's on the playfield that belong to you, they will be destroyed.
    [For MP they won't get destroyed if they belong to the Faction, where you are a member.]
    - You can't talk to traders for 20 minutes.
    - You can't use trading stations for 20 minutes.
    - You can't use the ATM for 20 minutes.

    Also there could be something like a life insurance in the future, if you buy that from a trader, you have to pay 1.000 credits and also have to pay 10% of all the credits you get in the future, but you won't have to pay anything if you die on the playfield where you bought the life insurance and you will keep your stuff if you (even if you die in a hostile or unfriendly faction territory).
     
    #1
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  2. Vermillion

    Vermillion Captain

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    Smells like capitalism. The beaurocratic kind.

    1: If you're going to die, it's probably going to be in a hostile faction's territory. Losing your entire backpack's contents for intended gameplay is one of the worst suggestions this year.
    2: No one has money earlygame. So the option of paying to avoid backpack loss is a repeat of the above issue.
    3: Who are you paying money to in this ridiculous system? God? What the hell is he gonna do with all that money? Open a church to trump?
    4a: Money is worthless to begin with. Everything is more expensive than the items sold to acquire that money and your trader choices are limited to begin with.
    4b: If your goal is to make money important. You're going in the opposite direction and would piss off every other single player without exception.
    5: A fresh start choice with a 60 minute cooldown completely violates the entire purpose of having a fresh start. Which is if there are hostiles/drones/Patrol vessels/base invaders at your spawn location that you have no chance of killing or escaping and must start again.

    This entire suggestion is dependant on money being the driving force behind the game. This is the kind of thing you suggest for a very specific server that's full of players (and probably p2w). Not for the game itself.
     
    #2
  3. Philipp

    Philipp Commander

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    at first, this was just a suggestion.

    The money thing was inspired by games like Borderlands where you have to pay money for respawn.
    Of course it would be possible to change things, maybe say that you loose 20 % money in enemy territory, 10% in neutral and no money in friendly/honored.

    The current system is that you loose your backpack always, if you are in a friendly area you can grab your stuff again and have no real death penalty.
    If you die in an enemy area you may or may not be able to get your backpack back. With the suggestion i made you would have a option to always save your stuff.
     
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  4. ion_storm

    ion_storm Captain

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    Untill we have any ability to avoid being shot (crouching, etc.), any kind of penalty would be outrageous...
    Being a walking stump is enough penalty for now, thank You...
     
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  5. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    This is the main part I see having some potential. In the case that you die and respawn from one of your structure's cloning facilities, you should start out with some temporary debuffs that reflect the fact that you just got popped into a new body made from scratch. Depending on the difficulty level, successful respawning could also require stocking the clone bay with sufficient biomass to allow construction of a new body. Conceivably, the respawning sickness could be avoided if the clone bay had been given enough time to ready a replacement body before you died.

    Use of allied cloning facilities would definitely need to be arranged ahead of time, by having sufficient standing and contributing whatever raw materials would be necessary for growing a new body (this could be the one place where money could be involved, but that would tend to limit respawning at allied structures to mid-to-late-game players, who would probably have sufficient respawning infrastructure by that time anyway).

    Depending on the difficulty level (and subject to skill and tech trees being made separate), one could also lose some amount of progress in various skills upon death. This could be mitigated by creating a backup of one's knowledge at one's base.

    However, as has been mentioned in the past, rigorously-enforced penalties for death probably should be held off on until the game's stability improves and player movement controls are refined.
     
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  6. Kaeser

    Kaeser Rear Admiral

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    In a finished game penalties for dying make total sense, in this case, dying to bugs and get a penalty on top of it would drive most into rage quitting...

    Besides, the intent of Early Access is to allow users to play the role of testers, punting penalties on that not only would be bad for the service it's been asked from them but would also drive most to not test odd stuff for the fear alone

    A lose lose situation basically....
     
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  7. Philipp

    Philipp Commander

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    okay i understand, i'm sorry. I didn't want to make people upset about my suggestion.
    I just thought i wanted to post my idea here, i didn't wanted to have it ingame right now.
    But i do understand that it is to early to talk about death penalties.
     
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  8. Kaeser

    Kaeser Rear Admiral

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    :)

    Noting to be sorry about, we're just not there yet

    I'd say it's something to consider in the beta phase
     
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  9. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    I mean, it probably should be explored now (and even implemented), but it should just not be mandatory until the mechanic is properly fleshed out and stability has improved (make it another configuration option and/or roll it into a "hardcore" mode/preset).
     
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  10. Philipp

    Philipp Commander

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    maybe it could be handled like the new weight system, that you get a entry in gameoptions.yaml like "EnableVolumeWeight: True" just with "EnableDeathPenalties: True"
     
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  11. MadRussian

    MadRussian Lieutenant

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    I would personally like a Limited Lives system (mostly for SP and co-op).

    Rather than one death/respawn, you get several. Lose your last life and it's Game-Over. Display the lives onscreen. Player(s) can earn more lives by completing certain objectives (like making to the moon the first time, taking out the drone base, obtaining a rare artifact, etc). I created an ArmA3 mission like this as proof of concept and it totally exceeded my expectations! Would be utterly exhilarating way to play Empyrion!

    I know it's pretty hard core idea, but it's far more forgiving than something like iron-man "single life perma-death". And respawning with no penalty (other than backpack related), just doesn't go near far enough (again imo). Hoping for really great modding/scripting capability for Empyrion to make something like Limited Lives possible.
     
    #11
  12. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    I am pretty 110% sure this would be a setting - or at least tied to the difficulty level - or both. So feel free to discuss any death penalty idea that is coming to your minds ;)
     
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  13. Philipp

    Philipp Commander

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    maybe this could be something for a 'hardcore'-mode.
     
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  14. Philipp

    Philipp Commander

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    ok then i have one more idea:

    If you die you currently can respawn in clone chambers.
    So your soul or whatever gets send from the place you die to the clone chamber.
    But there is a limited amount of things that can be send through this "channel", with a normal clone chamber only your soul can go back. So you loose your backpack like you do now.
    Then you could build a t2 clone chamber, that could also save your toolbar and a t3 clone chamber that saves also your entire backpack.
    If they get used they need a lot of energy and they also need material in their input to restore the items you had with you.
    Okay you could also just say: i respawn and craft everything i had, but i think more of a ... scifi-multi-material. That could be transformed into nearly everything and maybe could be purchased from traders only.
    You buy that scifi-multi-material, put it into your t2 or t3 clone chamber and if you die, your things get restored. If you haven't enough scifi-multi-material you maybe get a extra screen where you could choose which things get restored.
    It would make sense especially for rare things like epic weapons, autominercore or weapon upgrade kits.
     
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  15. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    I'd tie whether or not your backpack dropped to the difficulty level, something along the lines of what Terraria has (in Terraria, softcore mode: backpack remains with you; mediumcore mode: backpack contents are dropped; hardcore mode: banned from server (permadeath)). Recovering your stuff is, in some sense, a small price to pay for getting another chance (which is what respawning gives you). For this to work well, though, the backpack shouldn't despawn (or it should take a very long time for it to do so). One of the most frustrating experiences for me in Minecraft is the race to recover one's stuff after death, knowing that you have about 5 minutes before it despawns, and I don't think we ought to have that in Empyrion (at the very least, backpack despawn times should be configurable).
     
    #15
  16. Philipp

    Philipp Commander

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    maybe we could also think about the idea of a death penalty system, that has nothing to do with backpacks or item loss, but something different, like a debuff for a specific time.
     
    #16
  17. Vermillion

    Vermillion Captain

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    At present, one of the most penalty-less parts of respawning is that the clone chamber is completely irrelevant as long as the "spawn nearby" function exists. There's no real reason you'd spawn back at your base when you can respawn outside a POI where your ship is and fly home.
    At the very least, it should be disabled once you hit a certain level. Making the HV clone chamber or a Base necessary as soon as possible. Without a mobile HV spawn point, death in the field would require you to return to your base. Leaving your HV/SV/CV where it was as a penalty. It's still there and is retrievable, so you're not being harshly punished, merely inconvenienced.
    Though the backpack should probably take an hour to despawn in such a situation. Unless you have backup ships getting back there in time otherwise may prove troubling if you don't have one.
     
    #17
  18. Philipp

    Philipp Commander

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    i like the idea. Maybe they could also make that "spawn nearby" is available only on the starter planet, or as you said until a specific level.
     
    #18
  19. Philipp

    Philipp Commander

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    What about a config file or menu entry for death penalties? Something like 7 Days To die got maybe:
    On Death: [Loose Everything] [Loose Inventory] [Loose Toolbar] [Loose Nothing]
    Maybe also with some other things?
     
    #19

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