Preamble: Purpose of this post is to put down some key ideas on what I believe would make a strong PvP server. It does not fit in the scenario section, as this would require mods etc. The mods etc are beyond my ability to create, but the concepts are based on existing mods on HWS, plus a bit of Shattered Realms, Unknown skies etc - the point is I believe this is doable. Currently I have yet to see a "pure" PvP server that is sufficiently strong in its objectives and structure to stand alone )and provide a different experience) from the many excellent PvEvP servers. (though correct me if such already exists!). OK the following is not an all exhaustive server set up outline, but detailed enough to get the concepts across... ……………………………..…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Control and Conquest Overview of the Scenario/Game Rational This concept is intended as a “pure” PvP server scenario, aimed firmly at experienced Empyrion players. The idea is to deliver a challenging experience that has firm, very straight forward to explain, objectives and Victory/Defeat conditions, which require strategy and co operation to achieve success. Some of the underlying concepts require the use of Mods, such as I have seen on HWS, but nothing far from what that has not been possible previously. Story (You may see some obvious similarities to the Frank Herbert Dune series…) The most important substance in the universe is spice PENTAXID, it powers the great ships that move trade and armies through the universe. But it is only found on a single planet in the universe “Arrakis”. The Pentaxid is controlled by the Pollaris Corperation who mine, tansport and sell the pentaxid throughout the known universe. Pentaxid is produced in limited quanities and as such is frequently in very short supply and commands the highest prices for trade. The Dominent military power in the universe are the Zirax, who have any uneasy symbiotic relationship with Poliaris, one provides the fuel for the space fleets, which in turn provide protection to the other. Yet both origins are quietly resentful of the other… There are of course other companies/orgaisations (Origins) that jostle for power in the Universe; of these “the Collective” and the “Confederation” are the most vigourous and they are in constant miltary/geographic competition. The Objectives Players have two Origins to choose between; the Collective and the Confederation. Automatic alliances within the origin are enabled. The objective of each Origin is to gain control of more of the Universe than the other. Control is achieved by means of a daily count of how many planets are ruled by that faction. To rule a planet, the origin must have the maximum number of permitted bases on the planet, each above the minimum class/block count and the apposing origin must have 2 less. For each planet controlled, at the end of each week, an origin control point is scored, points are accumulated as the season progresses. Moons do not count for control points. EDIT (1/1/19): I imagine the "Maximum number of BA" for an origin on a planet would be limited at a relatively low number say 5. (design note – ideally this calculation of control points should be automatic – I belive this is possible based on mods that I have seen in existing servers) Victory Conditions The Season lasts for 8 weeks. At the end of the season, the Origin with the most accumilated control points is declared the Victor. Victory may also be early achieved by Domination – if one Origin fails to score any control points for two successive weeks, then Victory is achieved by the (other) dominent Origin and the season ends. The Supply of (Raw) Pentaxid The single original source of all pentaxid in the Universe is the planet Arrakis. Players can therefore obtain Pentaxid from the following limited means: Purchase from Polaris traders who trade in all planets. Loot from Zirax or Polaris facilities Loot from Polaris frieghters Loot from enemy vessels!!! Loot from Arrakis! (see below) So leaving the starter planet may well require materials trade with Polaris Traders to gain sufficient fuel for a return warp… Arrakis Planet Arrakis is a desert planet at the center of the universe. Its unique and valuable product is Pentaxid. However this is not found on the planets surface! Instead there as anchient portals that open justy twice a day which open route to subterrain pentaxid caves. Naturally the Polaris hide these portals within strucutres that are heavily defended, these are the secret of there power and wealth – they do not let anyone just walk in…! (design note – having portals to pentaxid instances, give very specifc control to the maxium possible pentaix supplty that could be looted by any faction/origin that have gained control of the planet) Traders are vital For the purpose of this scenario, probably the Talon will be repurposed as intergalactic weapons merchants. They sell ammunition in bulk amounts to players throughout the universe. (design note – these weapon traders are 100% required as without large quanities of pentaxid the production of energy ammunition will not be possible). The Gold Asteroid fields Gold is only found raw and minable in the asterod fields. This is vital to enable the volume purchase of ammunition and buying up such pentaxid for the warp drives as available… Server settings Experience gain and production are set to fast Auto miners do not depleat Planets do not allow base spawning – you have to build you bases by hand. They have to be a minumum size (class & block count) and quantity to achive planet rule/control. Erestrum and Zascosium are only found in space asteroid around planets and on random asteroid on moons. Basic ores including Neo and Sath are found in very large quantities/nodes on most (if not all planets). The aim is the make mining a relatively small part of the game. The respawn rate of all ores/asteroids is frequent. There is no OLP or land claim. Planetary Ores sites also do not have an anti grief zone. (if you want to put AM’s down and then invest time and ammo building bases to cover and protect them – that is fine). PVP/PVE Rotation All space playfield are always PvP All Planet Playfield Rotate between PvP and PvE on the same cycle – PvP only during “prime time”. During PvE period, only an origin which has already achieved rule/control may access the planet – the competing origin will be auto kicked if attempting to enter. No offline storage This may appear a strange one at first, after all one of the big attractions of the large PvEvP servers is that you can accumulate wealth over seasons. But in this pure PvP war scenario, offline storage is not desirable for two reasons: Each side starts each season with equal potential There are no safe areas to build supply dumps (offline or online PVE playfields). Any supplies are target for your enemy. So planning where to make storage station/dumps is an important strategic decision. But in a resource tight scenario, you will be using most supplies (and basic ores into the factory) anyway to fuel the war effort! Aims of this design The intention is to provide an ongoing team/origin challenge across a season, with decisions about trying to hold and fortify planets or attack and destroy to achieve the highest control point score. The restriction on Pentaxid makes warping a conscious decision - each warp costs! It is totally possible to make multiple jumps to the opposing origin starter world, but the cost in Pentaxid is significant… Should you warp several players in SV’s on a singe CV and park the carrier in deep space… Perhaps an assault on Arrakis is worth the risk, given the chance of a reasonable Pentaxid haul, but then the Polaris trader will not trade with you as you will become hostile. How about a network of SV sensors in space to detect enemy movements – or patrols of controlled space to remove enemy sensors…? Or you could build up large bases and avoid warping, accumulating supplies for a major offensive! Decisions! decisions! It takes strategy to win the warThe universe design All planets require CV’s to warp between them – no SV raiders! It is also quite compact – as the aim is to encourage PvP and reduce places to hide. The Achilles Heel I think the biggest challenge for this or any other server that has a scenario which is built around the restriction and value of in game items, are the current duplication exploits. If there is no way to prevent or detect/ban these exploits the basis of the scenario is undermined. Also this particular scenario/game structure, really only works if the control and victory calculation is by an automatic mod. Similarly applying the PvE restriction to only allow origin “in control” of a planet needs to be automatic. … remember this is a set of ideas, not exhaustive (things such as class size etc and so many other little variables). I would love some discussion on this post, hopefully some creative server owner/or prospective server owner ,ay have the skill set and inclination to develop some of these ideas.!
Some additional thoughts to flesh out the design a bit more... Fast Start Similar to mods several current servers, I would suggest that players should be able to spawn/gain a basic T1 SV to get them off and running quickly, though I would still use the escape pod start as potentially any point on the starter planet could be attacked/targeted by the enemy. I would also have a larger starting supply or CB:survival package available to the player. This server is not a typical "Survival" server, so getting players into the fight as quickly as possible is important. There should be lots of critters to enable fast levelling - or possibly an instance playfield through a portal with lots of critters. This would remove the strain on the PvP planet from critters, whilst ensuring their are always plenty of fresh critters behind the instance. (using an instance also removes the possibility of that portal linked playfield being used to store valuables).
The only real problem I see is this: The first side to gather sufficient resources can “mine” the warp arrival area with dozens of automated bases consisting of little more than a power source, an ammo box and a turret, making entry into the system a virtual death sentence for anything short of a Borg Cube, and even that would take some heavy damage, if it survived. Continuing to do this along a planetary approach and you essentially lock down a system.
It is a good tactic! I am not sure, but I think the warp in points can be sufficiently large to limit the effectiveness of this approach. but in any event it could be interesting t see a battle to create a bridge head? If it did become a too large of a factor to unbalance game, then there are other ways to design around - multiple approach warp in points may be one/ Limiting the number of BA that can be built in space playfields etc
Multi-point might work, though in terms of game mechanics I’m not sure how. Maybe an empty playfield between planets?
Yes, that is the general idea of the design. So the challenge to gaining "control" of a planet, is to build and maintain a sufficient number and size of Bases. As gaining "Control" is the key component for achieving victory, it has to take effort and co- ordination of resources. Keeping the Bases protected and above the qualifying size by the end of the day when the daily "control points" are calculated - whilst trying to limit (scout/destroy etc) the oppositions bases is the route of the challenge. Creating SV/BA/HV to battle with should be relatively easy and with large resource deposits available , affordable. The aim is the encourage the PvP/ live/fight/die/respawn. The tactical considerations are as a result of the restrictions on pentaxid and the need to build/support BA - whilst attacking the opposition. Daily value/reward to the effort is provided by the collection of "Control Points". There are many of possible variation/considerations. my initial thought was to allow BA spawning in Space, but perhaps this is not ideal - given the warp camp discussion from @IndigoWyrd? Certainly there are many variables that could be tried and tested around the core concept.
Update since A10 experimental, given that pentaxid has increased in value (for shields) and some of the known duplication exploits have been fixed, I believe that this server game type is increased in viability.
Except it'll literally crash any server that attempts to run it. Even with Unity 2018 upgrades, a server maxxing out a base count across an *entire* server would really push the limits of the game's performance. I would recommend using 5 size 5 planets, with associated moons around it. Maybe have some size 4's for NPC trading/not so important objectives. All in all, I wouldn't have more than 10 planets to start, see if the server hardware doesn't combust (or your server shutdown for excessive bandwith), then expand from there. Key problem most of these PvPers have is they think this game is optimized for PvP, it's absolutely not, and is still a ways to get there. I will say the 2018 upgrade did seem to really improve things a lot, and I'd like to see this experiment play out to see what a stress test would really look like.
If leveling should be fast, is leveling even needed in this scenario? Presumably, most of the PvP action would take place between fully-leveled players, while leveling players would likely do their best to stay out of the way of anyone else until they were fully leveled. It seems like you could just dispense with the tech tree entirely and unlock everything from the start without losing much gameplay.
Good ideas Sacred. I can see you've put a lot of thought into it. Just tell me where to type cb:getmestarted !
Good observation, I do not feel it is a problem, rather showing up a lack of clarity/explination in my original post, when I say "To rule a planet, the origin must have the maximum number of permitted bases on the planet" what I am not saying is what that maximum is. In my mind it would be a low number -say 4 or 5 fractioned BA cores that below to a specific origin. This in itself would be difficult, as they have to be above a minimum class/block size and they cannot be spawned. In additon to gain the control point, you have to prevent the opposing origin from building an equal number of based on the planet by the end of each day. The net effect of this would be to have far less playfields and structures that you would find on a typical server currently.
Yes I agree that would be a fair design choice/option - a bit like the Eleon Experimental server allows players to do now. It certainly would make for a fast expansion of the solar system at the begging of each season as player rush to fill out the void and origins look to claim territory!
Unfortunately, the thread is just ideas/concept discussion at the moment. I would love it if a skilled server owner would like to take up the principles (and develop it further). There are many areas that need more "fleshing out" on the design (which I would love to contribute to!), but the core principles are here. (PS: having observed you play in a PvP situation, I can see why you would be quick to sign up to such a server!!)
We are working on a "Pure" pvp server at Unknown Skies currently and would love to talk to you about your ideas. We have a "Concept" server up now... But it has had very little input thus far.
Keith is probably one of the only people out there who truly understands the core requirements/server tech needed for a 'pure' PvP playscape, as well as what needs to be tweaked in the game to allow for such.
A few "duplication" bugs have been squashed in recent patches. This type of bug is a real issue for servers and scenarios such as described in this thread. Does anyone know if dup bugs/exploits that still exist?
Alpha 11.5 bring the default functionality required for this MP PVP concept, a little bit closer (less modding required..) … Playfield settings: Added AllowMaxCPUTierSV, AllowMaxCPUTierCV, AllowMaxCPUTierHV, AllowMaxCPUTierBA, RestrictToOrigin
