Feedback Required Three things you absolutely DISlike about Empyrion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Hummel-o-War, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. stecph

    stecph Lieutenant

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    After you changed it, nights are way too bright, it is better to scout with the lights off, visibility is better then with lights on, it's a survival game guys!

    I understand a few people complained about dark nights, but i think You should take in consideration that many others like nights to be dark as they are supposed to be....

    At least give us the possibility to change the values ourselves (not the overall brightness value).
     
    #141
  2. Mr Eon

    Mr Eon Ensign

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    JUST three???

    (1.) Hate the Control Panel taking up the whole damned screen....
    when you want to sit back and watch ALL your cannon turrets unfolding - can't see for control panel.
    Worse when you're trying to configure the triggering field for sensors and you can't actually see it. (I do know you can go into interactive mode, but if they just made the other part of the control panel transparent that would help enormously.
    There are a hell of a lot of times the control panel is just blinding you.
    If only they could find a simple way to only open that portion of the menu you are working with.
    If you're in survival mode it is dangerous not to be able to see attacks coming. (I know we get sound alerts, but sometimes I turn it down, so as not to frighten my cat who thinks thrusters are an imminent earthquake and goes into frantic panic mode, yowling till I turn it down or let him out.

    (2.) Hate editing with a gun,
    especially having to shoot out thrusters & turrets, it is like performing fine carpentry and having to bang in nails with the butt of a pistol and using a machine gun as a saw.
    (I do use the 'N' edit feature, but it is weird and unpredictable sometimes, and in tight spaces is a pain).
    here is the sound of deleting a thruster;
    BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....BANG! ....
    (was that 20 shots?)
    You might get that sound effect in a rivetter's shop in a shipyard, but surely not at NASA.

    (3.) Hate the documentation,
    (a perennial problem for programmers who love writing scripts, but NEVER write decent manuals)
    Thank goodness for the users (like Spanj) who produce great tutorials and those who post to Steam and here, otherwise I think nobody would have a clue.
    The problem now is that people have posted so much stuff that it is dispersed all over the place - and a lot of it is out of date.
    Even the wiki has HUGE gaps.
    Trying to figure something out can take hours looking for decent, informative information.
    Eleon really should do something to centralise info that is up to date and fully comprehensive.
    I'm looking for helpful info on CPU's and what that actually really really means - and I get this crap.
    https://empyrion.fandom.com/wiki/Advanced_CPU

    Then this;

    https://empyriononline.com/threads/alpha-11-cpu-points-and-tiers-how-does-it-work.90876/
    That is about as meaningless as the small print on an insurance document.
     
    #142
  3. Shadex Demarr

    Shadex Demarr Lieutenant

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    #1 - Capital ships are currently just big superior SVs. Other than being large they are absolutely no different than small fighters. One person craft with lots of weapons used to shoot at other person in single person craft. The game is missing all the things that give any reason to having a large ship. No other player can do anything in combat. No other player can move. No other player can log out and live there. (may have been fixed but I am still hearing people in chat say they are getting left behind). These are 'capital ships'. Their only reason to exist is to support large groups of people. They have no reason in game to exist other than to look cool and brag. Oh, well they do essentially make SVs pointless so I guess there is that.

    Currently capital ships are super cheap to make. Yes, think about it, almost all players have one in the first week of playing. So they have no intrinsic value or sense of worth or grandeur.

    Currently they have speeds and maneuverability only barely shy of SVs making them an automatic choice in all cases. Even in atmo with just cannons and gatling they are still far superior due to shields. Capital ships do not move like that. For the love of Pete how is this a thing?

    Currently large turrets have the tracking speed of a ninja and spin like tops. There is zero reason to have small fighters because you will get obliterated by the massive guns that move insanely fast.

    Solution: Capital ships need to be

    Slow and get even slower the larger they are. Put a mass penalty multiplier based on size class if you have to. Reduce the thrust output of all CV thrusters to the point that it would be nearly impossible to even escape a gravity well. Guess what this does? It politically correctly temporarily inconveniences two birds with one stone. You make atmo warfare the world of SVs as it should be and in space CVs move more slowly because of the reduction of thrust. Third bird, SVs also become the defacto way of moving materials and people out of atmo and people will build shipyards in orbit in order to spawn CVs. Teleporting to atmo also becomes more common. Sounding like real sci-fi yet?

    Turrets need to be seriously slower. I am talking a 90% reduction in rotation speed. It won't have any affect on CV to CV combat because now the other guy is just as slow as you are. However now we have a reason to make fighters and bombers and anti-aircraft larger SV destroyers. Do you see what is happening? This is becoming an actual game where people make decision and work together and not just a single player game you play while other people chat.

    Longer term - You need to get people moving on ships. If this is simply not possible with what you have then people need to be given the ability to do things from terminals. Let us repair damaged items from the devices menu. Let us access and move to the cockpit of docked SV so we can launch. I believe the slower movement speed of massive CVs as suggested above will help significantly with keeping the players and the ship synched. The wins keep coming for slowing them down.

    #2 The Galaxy is way too big. I realize it is super cool to say, hey we have 100 star systems but in practice this just turned into no one ever seeing anyone else once we leave the starter systems. A server that only holds up to 100 players does not need 100 star systems especially for a PvP game. EvE has 10,000 players so there is a good chance of running into others. We have 100. Heck the "Official" server is maxed at 40. Unless Eleon has a huge milestone coming up where their server architecture is planning on smoothly handling at least 1,000 player why did someone think 40 people needed this much space?

    Smaller galaxies with bottlenecks create proximity. Proximity creates conflict, conflict leads to hate, hate leads to... sorry. Players needs things to fight over. This galaxy has the same resources, the same POIs, the same everything in a hundred different places, with yes some exceptions. So no one has any reason to fight over anything. "This are our system, we have built countless defenses and you cannot touch us!" "OK, we will just go to any of the other hundred systems." Sure, players will pew pew just to pew pew but that gets super boring really fast. There has to be a drive.

    Now I have like 20 ideas on things you could do to give players a 'reason' to fight but I am not writing them all down here.

    #3 The Medical system needs to be revisited. Afflictions are currently way too easy to get and way too deadly too fast. Getting one hit by an alien and you are suddenly hit with 4+ things that kill you in about 20 seconds. I still cannot understand why the medical stations even exist in the game right now when you would never live long enough to get back to your ship to use one. Everything is just people popping massive quantities of meds which is good to an extent. Yes, you want content they need to gather and farm for and possibly create a market for but that should not be for everything. Get an alien parasite and you are dead in 30 seconds, not due to that but from the 5 other things that you also got from it that killed all your stamina, all your food and... your dead. Heck the guy from Alien got two days before anything burst out of his chest.

    Medical is a huge thing for me. I modded 7D2D heavily to actually introduce a medical system and this one could use a heavy rework as well. I see all of these amazing medical bays created on ships and have to laugh, no one ever needs things for anything except maybe the yahoo that put the warp drive too close to a walkway and gives everyone radiation burn every two seconds. Think about this. It is currently easier and the more common solution by the player base to die and respawn then to try and 'survive' in your survival game. That makes zero sense. The core design ideal of this game should have been surviving and each mechanic should have supported that. Death is too easy, too cheap, and too readily a solution in a game where the entire premise is supposedly not doing that.

    Solution: Gestation needs to be a lot longer and the effects needs a complete overhaul. There are a lot more things you can do than just drain a stat bar. Visual changes to the screen, movement impairment, gun handling, player passing out, vomiting, etc.

    Empyrion is an amazing building system with a very talented group of coders. I have enjoyed it very much. What I think it needs now is a serious injection of game designers and I mean more than the story and any RPG elements, those can add at any time. There are some very large systematic elements that I believe need to be addressed. I fear though with 1.0 that Eleon is way past that and what systems we see now are what we are going to get. Everyone has strengths and in every team one of the most important parts is truly identifying strengths and weaknesses. Eleon has proven to be very bright and talented world builders. We just need to see now that they can design a 'game',
     
    #143
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2020
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  4. EstebanLB01

    EstebanLB01 Lieutenant

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    1. Food items stats and recipes make no sense whatsoever, like med items do.
    2.Building blocks and machines are Minecraft like instead of Space Engineers/Stationeers like.
    3.Weapons are 20th century technology, except for a couple, but weapon classes are still the same, and some are irrelevant/unbalanced
     
    #144
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2020
  5. piddlefoot

    piddlefoot Rear Admiral

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    Flight Controls. Lack of. And skewy ones we have.

    Interactive Helper AI robots or clones. Lack of.

    Inability to build larger than game rules allow, there should be a setting that lifts ALL build restrictions including grid size.
     
    #145
  6. Thor'sHammer

    Thor'sHammer Commander

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    So is THAT what's going on! I posted a long post: https://empyriononline.com/threads/abandoned-reactor-taken-back-by-zirax-but-no-core.95544/

    As of today (weeks later ) 67 Views but ZERO replies.
    So it's a known bug. A bit disappointed that none of the "Regulars" could bother to tell me it's known. Sheeze.

    So here are my REALLY DISlikes: (note I only have played Single Player)

    1. Crosshairs. It's just absurd you can't adjust it / change color. Unusable.

    2. Related - not showing the name of the Faction. It's stupid that I have to grab my sniper rife to see who the hell that is out there.

    3. Motorcycle has no brakes / only keyboard control. Once you're going, ZOOM! right past where you tried to stop. At least let us drag our feet ...
    Just useless.

    4. CPU system broken. You've heard how to fix it from many people.

    5. Physics system, or should I say LACK of physics. I get that Mathematician / Physicist isn't usually found in "Software Developer" DNA, but this isn't even Eight Grade science level. ASK someone to help you fix it. We ALL suck at something, doesn't mean we can't get help.

    6. Not enough story-line or extended goals. I've rarely been in space yet but from all I gather once you level up to a CV the game's not very interesting, just grinding on another level.

    7. NO TRADING SYSTEM. Related - No system to make peace with Zirac or others. Having to spend hours killing plants & animals in their territory to make peace is S-T-U-P-I-D.

    Trading "under a white flag" is standard peacemaking. You could also have Polaris act as a peace broker, transfer 1000 Iron or 25 Gold or whatever to improve relations. Something.

    8. Jump jet is useless. I know I'm a White Man but I promise in real life I can jump. *

    I sure can't in this game. I've tried all combinations of Armor / Boost Packs but it's just useless.

    You should be able to buy a "Flight Upgrade", and as someone else pointed out, what's with the sliding after you land. I'm tired of hearing "OOOF! ... Broken Leg" when I know I landed a tricky jump. GIVE THE SUIT RUBBER FEET!

    I truly hate this aspect of the game. I hate that I have to go to GodMode to place a damn block on my base, or even a SV, because my character can't make it onto a nearby block. I want to be able to play the game without "cheating". Bad PHYSICS again.

    *Reference to movie: "White Men Can't Jump" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Men_Can't_Jump

    9. Reloading. OK, it should take a little time to reload, but if you're out of ammo and it starts to reload and you change weapons, that should be almost instantaneous (small delay, like if you dropped a rife in real life and grabbed a pistol). As it is now, you DIE if you run out of ammo.

    10. The whole Water / Hydrogen bottle thing. Someone said it originally had 1 Oxy and 2 Hydrogen in the generator, like it should be. Go back to that, THAT makes sense. Bad Physics AGAIN. Makes me wonder how the Devs did in school. :rolleyes:
    {THIS IS SAID IN FUN, WITH LOTS OF LOVE FOR THE DEVS!!! I couldn't BEGIN to walk in their shoes!}:):)
    Besides, in school they were probably dreaming of this awesome space game ...

    Just poking them. Seriously, Empyrion amazes me, and I doubt I've played any game this much, but the physics issues drives the Engineer in me bonkers. I find myself SCREAMING when I miss a jump for the fifth time when I know I landed it four of them.

    and Finally:
    11. LET US 'SAVE AS' and name our own files. I have to do constant saves, and the idea that you lose a save point when you load it is dumb too. I've started saving THEN quitting every time just in case, then I have to remember to go clean out the save folder ... Absurd.

    Keep up the lovely work! Despite my sometimes passionate tone, I love what the Devs and this community have created, just sharing how I could see it go from very very good to mindblowing. :)
     
    #146
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  7. hairlessOrphan

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    1. Floaty, janky, laggy, slippery controls. Trying to creep closer to the edge of a block is a terrifying adventure. As a practiced FPS player, I know when I should have hit and when I should have missed, but that has nothing to do with whether I actually hit or miss here. I believe (using comparisons with other games) that the solutions to so many other problems are blocked by this. For example, balance in POI's - we have infinite spawns because we can't tune critters, because the controls are too floaty to make enemies tougher without making them unmanageable. Or POI variety - we want more POI's because they're fun to discover, but actually playing through one is frustrating, so once you see it once, there's no more fun to be had from them. Better controls enable (but does not automatically give) balancing options, replayable POI's, etc... Building would be improved by more responsive controls. Contrast between CV and SV combat would be improved by more responsive controls. The list goes on.

    2. The Flatten tool. Why is this ranked #2? Because the gap between expectation and reality is SO wide when you use it. When I see the Flatten option, I automatically form a hypothesis that it will flatten things. Then I actually use it and gaze upon the mangled doomscape of jagged edges, floating rocks, and impossibly extended rock tendrils that result. Y'all know exactly what I'm trying to do with this tool. Why not just... just make it do that. Just make it flatten things. Why did you try to get all fancy with it?

    3. Speaking of jagged and mangled, the difficulty curve. This is related to but not a subset of #1; there are other issues with the difficulty curve, which is not so much a curve as a stochastic random walk like a stock ticker. For examples, POI's could be labeled with more than just the faction - a Legacy tower is nothing like a Legacy facility.

    Honorable mention: a lack of unifying direction for the game that brings all the different gameplay systems together. Like, why is the leveling system even there? We all just grind plants, rocks, and spiders until we can build the things we need anyway; it's a forced prologue before we get to actually play the game. There's 20 minutes that absolutely do not need to be there. It's not a big deal, it's only 20 minutes... but it's also a clear sign that other weird things in the game may also have no purpose, and that makes it impossible to put other potentially frustrating things in context. Why the long crafting timers? Why the food spoilage? Why armor boosts that might be optional but sometimes are effectively required? There's always the sneaking suspicion that there's no explanation, and the frustration is there for no reason. I know why it's like this: because the game was designed iteratively and evolved over time, and there was no clear vision when it all started. That's a great thing to get started with in 2015, but now that we're here in 2020, there might be an opportunity to clean this up.
     
    #147
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  8. Jorgodan

    Jorgodan Commander

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    Just this one.
    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE translate the texts and descriptions of the quests into German!

    Story, which story? Oh is told with the quests. Hmm What was that now in the log files? What should I do ?
    It is simply impossible for a player who has limited English to play these quests. In this way, much of the content of the few existing stories is lost.

    It must be possible to translate the few puny texts and dialogues (measured against real role-playing games) into the German language and integrate them into the German localization. Especially for a German developer studio.
    I bet my ass that at least half of all texts are initially written in German and then inserted into the game in English.

    Perhaps a modder from the German community can have mercy and offer a German translation. That happens in many other games too.
     
    #148
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  9. plainsight

    plainsight Ensign

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    1. Drone AI lack intelligence. They still get stuck sometimes. No tactics or strategy just track player and shoot. They can't aim up if player is directly above them. They still camp at dead players backpack.
    2. AM/water generators. Unload and refuel. Dragging materials back and forth is tedious. Lost 500 fusion cores in a buggy link refueling am. Needs a quick unload to containers instead of the linked toolbar. Need a quick fuel button or tank like ships, so its easier to refuel.
    3. Falling out of ships getting out of cv cockpit. I notice it happens more often on high g planet also hate it when the ship just spins while getting out of seat.
     
    #149
  10. Wellingtoon

    Wellingtoon Commander

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    Right, top 3 things... these are my top 3 disliked DESIGN DECISIONS. I am guessing/hoping/praying that all those bugs will be resolved at some point. It's generally the bugs that discourage me from playing. And story/endgame/objective content added over time... So, top 3 disliked design decisions:

    1. Mass limiting top speed. Genuinely, WTF? The previous model was more intuitive (and a lot more fun): Acceleration should absolutely be affected by mass. Having to start slowing down 5km away from my base is what I expect from a space game. Taking 15 minutes to cover 15km because I'm carrying a lot of stuff is just... boring. And dumb. I started reading a book while doing this and then realised the book was more interesting than the game, so stopped playing for a long while.

    2. Collision detection. This manifests itself in a few annoying ways, but the most frustrating are:
    - Retractable turrets are purely cosmetic, and landing gear obscures LOS even when it's retracted
    - Collision boxes are larger than the visible item, making careful use of cover basically impossible (finishing off the job that no crouching or leaning starts)
    3. Static hotbar in all vessels. I like to keep things inactive until I need them (especially when they draw piles of power to sit idle). But there's no way of activating things quickly. Go to control panel, click switch, close control panel. Why not have an 'assign to hotbar' option? I build small, so most vessel hotbars are 80% empty.

    (Dis)Honourable mention: Please, please get an English speaker to review your dialogue. I am certain that your German is infinitely better than mine, but good lord those stories are hard to read.
     
    #150
  11. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    @Wellingtoon your (Dis) Honourable mention.... the last 'English Speaker' was nobody else than Spanj who reworked the dialogues..oh and I believe that at least one of the Devs could be pissed if you state he is German;)
     
    #151
  12. Wellingtoon

    Wellingtoon Commander

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    I know, Dutch, plus maybe many others. What I meant so say was 'Your English is much better than my German (or Dutch, or French, or anything else). But still, some of that dialogue just doesn't work in English'. Part of the problem is that English varies so much. Since Spanj is from Bristol there's a reasonable chance I won't like his English either :p
     
    #152
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  13. 4ophe

    4ophe Ensign

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    Animations, ai and futuristic interface

    I think those are the basic pillars for the game to be the best of all, the basic structure of the game is great... but when playing it feels old.
    I think the main animations are for walking, running and pointing the gun. what refers to intelligence is for enemies with weapons as they are too predictable and not to mention the npc that collide with walls or are looking at the wall, another issue is the interface ... a more futuristic interface with semi-transparent edges would be the solution with a blue tone that is used for everything: chat, missions etc ...
    I write this knowing that the juice has moved to a mode of more aesthetic changes that is the fundamental to call the attention of new players and improve the exp of those who already play.

    I hope the bosses can read this and give a positive comment
     
    #153
  14. 4ophe

    4ophe Ensign

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    It may have nothing to do with it, but could you add swords? I have a basic concept prepared (image)
     
    #154
  15. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    .... Swords? Really? :eek:
    You can use your chainsaw for 'real' close combat.
    But the AI will shoot you first in the Head and ask you after what you wanted to do with this toothpick;):D
     
    #155
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  16. Track Driver

    Track Driver Rear Admiral

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    Since we're not discussing here, I haven't bothered to read all of the above.

    1. CROSS-HAIRS!! ( I have elaborated on this many times on other threads)
    2. Not having an actual map instead of, or better still, in addition to the globe. We've been given coordinate readings with no apparent way to make use of them. (please correct me if I'm wrong).
    3.
    CROSS-HAIRS!!
    4. The corner map/radar widget. it lacks scale, does not indicate approaching enemy or even their location after being shot down.
    5.
    CROSS-HAIRS!!

    6. Lack of joystick compatibility. (Personal preference, Thrustmaster).
    7. Lest I forget, CROSS-HAIRS!!
     
    #156
  17. 4ophe

    4ophe Ensign

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    It can be solved by doing that with the second click or right click you can cover yourself and block ... as you are shot, the block will wear out and end up deactivating until it is loaded at a certain point and can be used again
     
    #157
  18. Jorgodan

    Jorgodan Commander

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    :D:D:D:D
     
    #158
  19. idx64

    idx64 Lieutenant

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    1) I don't like that you can see through the blocks under an enemy base, the core is easily detected and the grace is lost.-
    2) I don't like that the lights put in the Vessels go through the blocks and illuminate where they shouldn't.-
    3) I don't like that a Zirax shoots horizontally from an elevator and the shot goes down vertically.-
     
    #159
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  20. Garlein

    Garlein Ensign

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    Many people have said similar things in this and other topics before me.

    With a lot of potential, the game is very short. We start from scratch, develop, open tenologies, build, and it seems that all the most interesting things are about to begin, but here, once we have reached the ceiling, we can do everything and have the resources for it, and there are no more goals. And this path does not take much time. Because of this, the game is very similar to session games, because it is not for nothing that many servers have introduced the concept of a "season" with a strict time duration, where a month, where 3, and somewhere six months, and then full wipe.

    The main reasons for the above:
    1. A hard limit on the character's level is level 25, and the character's level does not give anything to the character itself (its characteristics)
    When you reach level 25, the meaning of the game begins to fall very much.

    2. The Technology tree is very short and is limited at the top by the player's maximum level (25).
    Technological development also stops, which reduces interest in further play. Due to the link with the player's level, many of the necessary things at the beginning or middle of the game are located at level 15-25, respectively, the player is forced to speed up the level to achieve these things, and this reduces the overall duration of the game.

    3. Complete absence of long-term and difficult to achieve goals in the game.
    After getting level 25 and opening all the technologies, the player usually has one or more well-built bases, a fleet of several CV/SV/HV, most likely he has already managed to break a certain number of different NPC ships and different POIs, having visited different stars and visited some planets and moons, he has a lot of resources and ready-made blocks/devices in warehouses.
    What should he do next?
    After all, as a rule, he will not see anything new anymore.
    On servers, he can still be satisfied with PvP, if He likes it. What should a PvE player do?
     
    #160
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