Thrusters inside the vessel

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by R4z0rbee, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. R4z0rbee

    R4z0rbee Ensign

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    A quick search didnt show me any similar threads. I would like your opinion on this.

    I find it quite irritating that thrusters can be placed inside ships and still remain fully functional. Even when the thruster exhaust is sealed shut by another block. I am not sure how difficult it would be to implement a "deadzone" behind thrusters where no blocks can be placed but since I believe it wouldnt be that difficult, I have to assume that the current way is intended.

    Now obviously a lot of people will frown upon this concept because it would mean redesigning existing blueprints that make use of the current system where thrusters are buried behind layers of armour.

    For the sake of immersion, visuals and balance though, would you prefere having to place thrusters so there is nothing obstructing the exhaust ?

    Other than the obvious effect of being able to target thrusters directly, it would also lead to higher tier thrusters becoming more desirable since thruster-placement would now be limited to the outside layer, so you have to work with the surface area of your vessel in contrast of being able to utilize the entire volume of the vessel. That means the additional length of high tier thrusters does not decrease space where you could have stacked smaller thrusters behind each other beforehand.

    I would prefere it this way.
     
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  2. Ballard

    Ballard Captain

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    I agree, and would suggest that a thruster to damage to any block within two spaces of its' exhaust direction. The damage could be relative to the thrusters size. That way the problem would solve itself. The thruster would burn through, free to space, problem solved!
     
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  3. r3d

    r3d Lieutenant

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    What you're asking would impact performance on a very large scale.

    Right now, mostly all of the lag in PvP battles involving more than 1 person comes from the Turret/Weapon trajectory & damage calculations that are performed before and after a shot is fired.

    Now add 100 thrusters and perform a 'should-damage-apply-check' where the thruster would check for anything in the path of the thruster (suggestion was 2 blocks). Let's say that a ship collides with another ship during PvP (happens all the time)... now we have 2 ships performing a bazillion calculations and you just got disconnected.

    It's piss poor netcode that they will have to revisit and rewrite entirely before anything of the sort, shields included, can be added. The current system doesnt work and adding any enhancement would not help.

    Maybe in the interim, the requirement can be set that a thruster must be on the outside of the ship. However, this would require introducing entirely new functionality as there isnt any such requirement for any such block as of right now (no location requirements).

    Thruster requirements and enhancements will be wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy down the road.

    7.0 will be weapon balance and ship balance. It's on the roadmap, a dev has confirmed it somewhere in these threads. Expect to see something like this in the distant future.
     
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  4. Siege Inc.

    Siege Inc. Captain

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    I fully expect they'll change it to require external thrusters/vented thrusters at some point. I'm hoping they rebalance them in that case so it requires fewer thrusters to get the job done. If the requirements are too tight it will limit the kind of builds we're capable of and you can say goodbye to things like the Millenium Falcon. I know some people stick them inside for a tactical advantage. I do so for aesthetic reasons.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
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  5. Frigidman

    Frigidman Rear Admiral

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    Exhaust calculations might be able to use the same mechanic we use for oxygenating. Except in reverse. A thruster 'end' would need some path to the outside to vent too for it to actually work.

    Then add the building deadzone behind thrusters for the 'flame' (based on thruster size, as 2 blocks for the large t2 CV thruster is a silly small area for the flame zone). The deadzone simply prevents anyone from placing blocks there for visually/temperature logical reasons.

    What this would allow is still to make ships where thrusters are somewhat 'buried', but engineering would need to take place to allow for the full zone, AND the venting of exhaust to the outside for it to function.
     
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  6. Ballard

    Ballard Captain

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    Yes, I do have some ships where I place 'shields' over the engines, a few blocks out. I am curious to see what Eleon does. This has been a topic for quite a while on this forum.
     
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  7. oojimaflip

    oojimaflip Captain

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    Thruster Damage!

    I'm still waiting, I will wait as long as it takes. HAS to happen.... ? doesn't it?
    We've been designing our ships with thruster damage in mind since day one and don't intend on stopping.
     
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  8. StyxAnnihilator

    StyxAnnihilator Lieutenant

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    If such a "deadzone" behind a thruster, then maybe it should be allowed to have a "deadzone" crossing other thrusters' "deadzones".
    In Space Engineers there are a damage zone behind thrusters. So I have used an overlapping "deadzone" method to do internal thrusters with efficient use of space. Like put (all) thrusters so they point to a center area.
     
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  9. oojimaflip

    oojimaflip Captain

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    I don't really care if thruster damage only applies on the structure that the thruster is attached to, thrusters aren't and shouldn't be a viable tactic for causing damage to another ship.
    IMHO
    Thruster damage to your own ship as a consequence for building stupid: Necessary
    Thruster damage to another ship: NOT necessary.
     
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  10. Ballard

    Ballard Captain

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    I agree in principle. I have never considered using a thruster as a weapon... but you have to admit, it would be kinda cool.
     
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  11. GTv

    GTv Captain

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    I like the way it is now, but the 'flame effect' should be able to be toggled on or off when the thruster is active, then it would make more sense to have an engine room inboard the ship where I usually set them up. As it is, I cover over the thrust with another block.
     
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  12. Ambaire

    Ambaire Commander

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    Considering how pathetically weak thrusters are, I always cover them with grates etc so at least it takes more than a stray shot to kill a large thruster. If such a change was made, I'd like to see thruster hp doubled or tripled across the board.
     
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  13. Jollinar

    Jollinar Lieutenant

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    Guten Abend

    ich bin nicht der Meinung das mit den Triebwerken zu ändern.
    mich beschleicht das Gefühl das einige hier noch nie ein richtig großes Schiff gebaut haben.
    Wenn man es so machen würde wie ihr es wollt, würde die halbe Schiffs-Außenhaut nur aus Triebwerken bestehen, was ja ziemlich blöd aussehen würde. Das Schiff soll ja auch optisch gefallen.
    Und so ein großes Schiff soll ja auch etwas manövrierfähig sein sonst macht es ja keinen Spaß zu fliegen. Und das soll es ja. Spaß machen.
     
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  14. oojimaflip

    oojimaflip Captain

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    Nein;)
     
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  15. andargor

    andargor Commander

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    You should read the Man-Kzin wars by Larry Niven. One of the first encounters, humans fry the Kzin with their drive. :)
     
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  16. Ballard

    Ballard Captain

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    I am a huge Niven fan. Great books.
     
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  17. rucky

    rucky Captain

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    Wenn ich die Jungs richtig verstanden habe, sollten dann alle Thruster sowohl mehr Leistung bringen als auch mehr Lebenspunkte haben.
    Und ich denke, dann wäre das in Ordnung, diese nur aussen anbauen zu können.

    If I've understood you guys right, all thrusters should then not only have more power but also more hitpoints.
    And then I would admit these changes would be good!
     
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  18. Ballard

    Ballard Captain

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    Good points about thrusters needing more power in general, per size of the unit. Perhaps on the larger ones exhaust may need to be a separate block. I tend to build my thrusters in, with a channel for exhaust. It has always bothered me to enclose them completely.
     
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  19. Moonsugar

    Moonsugar Captain

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    Not only per size, but per mass, too. As it is, you need waaaaaaaay too much thrusters to move your ship. Apart from the fact, that you need one for each direction from the first, you have to stack them in masses to achieve any usable acceleration on both, SV and even more HV. Even quite basic designs with less than 10t utilize seldom less than 10 thrusters; this goes up with the ships mass more than linear. In addition, the efficiency of thrusters drops with advancing the tech tree both in means of thrust/mass and thrust/volume ratio. Thats wrong by any standards i can think of.
    I just want to build a ship around two or three (depending on symmetry demands) thrusters that give enough force to actually use them. i want to need three or four maneuvering jets at most.
    As anything has a price, i am willing to pay this in fuel demands, ore costs or else; just, please, please with some sugar on top: Dont force me to build my ship with half of the block being thrusters.
     
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  20. Captain Jack II

    Captain Jack II Rear Admiral

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    A bad o-ring can destroy a thruster, and you want them to be stronger?
     
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