Help needed UPS Research: Spec Info understanding help needed...

Discussion in 'Other Discussion' started by Tyrax Lightning, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Rear Admiral

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    Researching on these harder in light of the fact that before when I delved into this, I had a 60 Hz Monitor... now I have a 144 Hz Monitor, so I worry about if my prior UPS Choice can no longer suffice for my needs.

    I have eyeballed quite a few, including this one: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?reviews=all&Item=N82E16842301692&ignorebbr=1 & notice a couple Spec Info Lines on it that the damn Search Criteria on NewEgg refuses to provide, but I worry is VERY important... "Input Frequency", & "Output Frequency"... I can't quit worrying that asking low Stats like "Input Frequency of 50/60 Hz +/- 3 Hz" & "Output Frequency of 47 - 53 Hz" to handle my 144 Hz Monitor during sudden arrival of Power Outage, could end up being like a UPS equivalent of trying to run a Graphics Card with a PSU giving that card a stupid low amount of Amps on its +12V Rail... :eek:

    I request assistance in understanding this further. Am I being paranoid (again...) or is this a valid tactical concern that'll end badly for me if not addressed when UPS chosen & bought then put on duty?

    Many thanks for your time in advance. :)

    P.S. My New Computer Build's completion level is past 80%! :D

    P.S.S. It's also worrying me that i've looked at a large number of UPS & NONE of them have ever reported having any Input or Output Frequency in the ballpark of 144 Hz... :eek:
     
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  2. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    TL;DR: It's not a concern.

    The role of a UPS is to provide stable voltage and frequency to its connected devices. In the US, any wall-pluggable device expects [email protected], and that's exactly what a (US) UPS will provide. What the device does with the power it's given is not the concern of the UPS (so long as it doesn't draw too much current of course). In the case of your 144Hz monitor, an internal or external power adapter converts the incoming AC power into DC power, which is then sent to the monitor's electronics (which handle the actual refresh rate). So, in other words, the refresh rate of your monitor is completely independent of the frequency of your home's power system :).

    EDIT: The UPS you linked to is a pretty hefty model; are you sure you need that much run time out of it?
     
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  3. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Rear Admiral

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    Sweet, many thanks!

    I am still perusing Models & am also still trying to decide how much I can afford to spend on this kinda thing... I wanna be able to at the least, for example if caught in a Game Match or some such, have time to finish the Match then be able to emergency exit the game & emergency Shut Down the Computer. The one I Posted is likely way above my Budget, it was just simply the one I looked at last before finalizing my decision to Inquire about this Spec Info before doing any further pondering. Plus I was also wondering if i'd want one with a Wattage at least in the same Ballpark as my PSU serving the new Build figuring if it was too much lower in Watts, i'd have to worry about the UPS juice not being strong enough to support my Rig during the Power Outage long enough to safe shut down thus defeating the purpose of having the UPS... especially in particular the CPU, Graphics Card, & Monitor...
     
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  4. Myrmidon

    Myrmidon Rear Admiral

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    As a general rule, good power supplies protect enough for incoming mains power surges etc. Monitors have power supply too either external or internal. For home needs you buy a power supply mostly for autonomy and not for protection which is welcome though, especially if the monitor has internal PSU. So your MB GPU CPU etc are well protected. The power on them is not alternative current AC but direct current DC as transformed by the PSU internal transformer. Any riple from the AC is filtered and will never reach your components

    Think of it like this. Which device cost less this is the one that you don't mind getting hit by bad power from mains. Protecting an expensive monitor behind a UPS is an extra measure, especially fi you live in a country/town that the mains quality is not good, or it is very possible/often thunders hit somewhere on the power mains network and somehow reach your equipment.

    Before buying any UPS search for reviews and if possible tear down videos.Those explain how things works and give you an insight about the quality of the PSU you are interested to buy.
     
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  5. StyxAnnihilator

    StyxAnnihilator Captain

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    Uninterrupted Power Supply?

    Three major decisions, InLine vs OnLine and noise (any fan quality) and Watt (what equipment and how much "power" is needed for what time).

    Most UPS's with a fan have a crappy one with no heat sensor or control. Step-less heat controller often costs just a few $ to put on the wire, but breaks the warranty.

    A "home" UPS should have only the most important equipment connected, like PC and router/switch. So can shut down the PC ASAP without the risk of damaging drive content and BIOS. Check advanced power option settings.
     
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  6. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Rear Admiral

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    The one for my Build will be dedicated to my Rig & Monitor... maybe Speakers.

    Modem & Router are in another room & it's on my to-do list to get a separate more humble UPS for dedicating to those.

    Also I don't care about a moderate amount of Fan Noise... as a matter of fact, if I can't hear the Fan(s) at all i'm vulnerable to the temptation to get paranoid of if the Fans are even still working or if they mighta died... >_<

    "InLine" & "OnLine" i'm not familiar with... would not say no to Clarification on those Terms.

    Many thanks all for the Responses thus far! :D
     
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  7. Myrmidon

    Myrmidon Rear Admiral

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  8. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Rear Admiral

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    Why is this Tool Thingie trying to swear to me that "Desktop PC" must surely = "100 Watts" of Power Draw...? Here's my PSU my New Build's got in it...: PC Power & Cooling FireStorm Gaming Series 1050 Watt 80+ Gold Fully-Modular Active PFC Performance Grade ATX PC Power Supply (FPS1050-A4M00)

    That sure as hell doesn't look like "100W" in the name of this dude... & no freaking way in hell 100W could ever provide a deliciously high EIGHTY SEVEN POINT FIVE (87.5) Amps on its +12V Rail for my Graphics Card... o_O (Info for proof here... Page 3. Look under "MODEL:FPS1050-A4M00" info, not its little brother's info above it. ;))

    Also, to my irritation, all efforts to find Power Draw Info for my Speakers failed... :/

    P.S. Many thanks for sharing the Tool & attempting to be of help anyway. :)
     
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  9. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    Unless you're running multiple graphics cards,
    That tool clearly wasn't built with gaming desktops in mind :). I'd guess that a 900+ W (1500 VA) model might be sufficient (it's what I have two servers, a router, a PoE network switch, a monitor, and my gaming desktop plugged into right now). On the other hand, if your system is really pulling a good fraction of the power supply's output, then a 1 kW or higher model might be more appropriate.
     
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  10. Myrmidon

    Myrmidon Rear Admiral

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    There are many calculators out there. There are also for the PSU selection by giving the configuration it gives the needed and max output of required psu. A simple 2600K with GTX1070 2x8GB DDR3 4xHDDs, 2xSSD of mine gives needed PSU 550W for the peaks and overclocking. I monitor power consumption all the time when I play by means of MSI AB and HWinfo and for example when playing Empyrion, the peak total power never gets over 300W-310W on the UPS that I have connected a 27 inch IPS 1080p Asus monitor and the PC. Look the two lower lines on the low left side of the photo, where I have positioned MSI AB.

    psu.png

     
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    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
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  11. StyxAnnihilator

    StyxAnnihilator Captain

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    @Tyrax Lightning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply
    Sorry, I were a bit lazy with wording, InLine=Line-interactive. Have some surge protection, switches fast to battery when issues.
    Online then the battery feeds the power to devices, giving "filtered" (no spikes) current.
    The third one I did not mentioned, Offline, I would avoid, since mostly have no protection and can switch to battery a bit too late.
     
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  12. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Rear Admiral

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    My apologies for this Necro, but finally got the UPS picked out for my needs... special thanks to Grandma for paying me stupid much for my efforts to Caretake for her...: https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-PR2200LCDRTXL2U-Sinewave-System-Outlets/dp/B01AROQV8S/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=256MMT7YAAIH6&keywords=network%2Bbattery%2Bbackup&qid=1566580117&refinements=p_72%3A2661618011&rnid=2661617011&s=gateway&sprefix=NET%2BWORK%2BBAT%2Caps%2C227&sr=8-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyVEVLNExXQTdHT0NIJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzk1NjY4MTM4MjI2VjlOSVNZQiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTgxNDMwMTE3VUk1Rlg0Qk8zUSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&pldnSite=1&th=1

    Figured this might come in handy in case ya'all didn't know before that it was POSSIBLE to find a UPS that can benchpress 1,500 W of Battery Backup Load AND has optional Battery Pack Extendability for stronger runtime... :D

    ... Edit: Why the hell is the Forum being a jackass about proper function of the Link...? :mad:

    ugh... might have to go manual copypasta of the Link...: https: //www.amazon.com/CyberPower-PR2200LCDRTXL2U-Sinewave-System-Outlets/dp/B01AROQV8S/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=256MMT7YAAIH6&keywords=network%2Bbattery%2Bbackup&qid=1566580117&refinements=p_72%3A2661618011&rnid=2661617011&s=gateway&sprefix=NET%2BWORK%2BBAT%2Caps%2C227&sr=8-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyVEVLNExXQTdHT0NIJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzk1NjY4MTM4MjI2VjlOSVNZQiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTgxNDMwMTE3VUk1Rlg0Qk8zUSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&pldnSite=1&th=1

    ... :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
     
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  13. Pantera

    Pantera Moderator
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    You can do this:

    Amazon link

    To do that type in what you want the link to be called then drag your cursor over it to highlight it then click on the 'Link' option in the reply options & insert the link there then click 'Instert' this will then make the word you typed a link to the page you are linking to.

    I bought this myself recently which is enough for my needs Cyberpower + it has pure sinewave output.
     
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  14. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Rear Admiral

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    Thank you so much for the response! That's a new Internet Trick for me! ^_^
     
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  15. krazzykid2006

    krazzykid2006 Rear Admiral

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    One big thing to keep in mind when buying a UPS is that the internal batteries are generally only good for 3-5 years. Always make sure you are purchasing a model that allows for replacing the batteries. It looks like you are all good there with the linked one.
     
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  16. StyleBBQ

    StyleBBQ Captain

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    @Tyrax Lightning , @Pantera , those are both very nice UPSs, congrats :)

    To anyone interested there's an easy and quite telling/useful Test you can do, without risking your PC.

    Gather Incandescent lightbulbs of similar wattage as what your setup draws, a couple/few Big bulbs are better than many small wattage ones.

    Use appropriately rated lamps, if multiple lamps use a mechanical 3 or 4-way to connect them all into one heavy-duty, short extension cable, so you only use -one- plug on the UPS. <be sure to read the Manual though, it's not uncommon for the UPS outlets to have different ratings>
    Then plug that into one of the 'Outage Protected' outlets, turn on all the lamps, turn off all other room lights; so if the lamps just dim a bit you can still tell.
    Then yank the plug of the UPS from the wall. How the lights react can be illuminating, heh.

    A minor, few percentage, hardly noticible, and very brief dimming, is nothing to be concerned with;

    -unlesss- your unit is -explicitly- an "On-Line", 'always running off the batteries' unit. If one of those dims I'd return it, no matter what the Maker says. (( reason being there was some very common bs/trickery going on with the lower tier makers years back where they were selling IN-Line as ON-Line. So if you're after On-Line, and paid for it, then don't let them fool you ))

    If you want to be through then leave the UPS unplugged for a minute, so the batteries have discharged a bit.

    Next, plug the UPS back into the wall. Did anything change? If you left the lights running off the batts for a minute then you might see them dim a a bit. Same applies, very minor is ok.
    But if the lights -stay- dimmed then you're pushing the UPS harder than it can comfortably handle.
    It's having to both feed the lightbulbs & recharge the batteries and it's struggling.
    Doesn't directly mean there's anything wrong with the UPS, unless you know what all the claimed stats are, and you're not overworking it.
    What it does mean is that your test load (which is mimicking your PC, right?) has shown that the UPS may not work very well for your setup.

    Test all the 'Outage Protected' plugs the same way, as appropriate for their stated capacity.

    Best not to use CFLs since they not only have circuitry that can buffer/hide power fluctuations, but the base physics of their excited gas will tend to hide things.

    Also best to do these tests within the return/warranty period, and if something 'pops', well don't fess up to doing the above.

    Edit: probably should mention the potential issue with the larger SOHO UPSs in the USA.
    As mentioned above we run our homes & small offices mainly on 120V and mostly use 15AMP circuits, meaning generally a wall outlet can only provide 1800Watts of juice.
    So if you use a large 1500Watt UPS, and actually load it to capacity, then you should expect it to struggle to recharge it's batteries, it may take many hours.
    So, unless one single thing -has- to have ~1400Watts (large server), it's generally better to buy two smaller units and plug various things into each one, and then -make-sure- that each UPS is on it's -own- circuit.
    This mostly applies to small offices where their "server room" is a closet with 5 wall outlets, but all on the same circuit, and they're wondering why things keep failing... "Do we need more UPSs??"<facepalm>
     
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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 10:10 AM
  17. Tyrax Lightning

    Tyrax Lightning Rear Admiral

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    Wow... using Incandescence to simulate a PC... that is a epic trick. Thank you so much for that Share! ^_^
     
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  18. StyleBBQ

    StyleBBQ Captain

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    Happy to @Tyrax Lightning :)

    Learned this trick a long time ago doing small business IT consulting. Back when Windows NT defaulted to -buffering- writes... gahh. any power outage could corrupt the box. And after dealing with the fallout due to weak/dead UPS batteries one too many times, I made it a point to include UPS testing with all new clients.

    Cheap lamp tip; the clip on, raw aluminum shade work lights at Lowes/HomeDepot(maybe large Targets?) used to be $5 & rated for 500 Watts. No idea now a days but worth a look.
     
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