DEV BLOG Version 1.5 Dev Blog: Story & Missions

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Hummel-o-War, Apr 25, 2021.

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  1. krazzykid2006

    krazzykid2006 Rear Admiral

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    Even if they paid a company to translate there would still be a need for volunteers to proofread and look for inconsistencies.
    It's a science fiction game with custom words and phrasing used all the time. Things WON'T translate perfectly, and they would still need native speaking volunteers to help polish the translations after the fact.

    Each of those volunteers needs to fluently speak both the translated language and English, plus have an understanding of the game to make sure the translations fit in correctly.

    Which leaves us stuck in the same boat we are already in....... waiting for volunteers to translate.

    Plus, don't forget to leave out the most important part of all this....
    The game is constantly updating, which means they would have to pay a translation company/software over, and over, and over, and over again.
     
    #21
  2. Kratos

    Kratos Ensign

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    To begin with, I was not rude. And secondly, I'm already tired of repeating over and over again ... that if you position your game as multilingual, then be responsible for your flaw. Or remove in Steam those languages that you are not able to implement. And THEN volunteers will translate it into their own language.
    I'm already tired of explaining this over and over again, are you children or what? Why can't the ordinary sense of the sentence fit into you? You perceive him constantly as a politician, trying to pervert what is disadvantageous to you in your favor.
    If you have nothing to say to me on the merits, please stop writing all sorts of nonsense.
     
    #22
  3. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Followed by
    You are being very rude and that rudeness is not needed.
     
    #23
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  4. rebuilthk47

    rebuilthk47 Commander

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    You are being very rude and derailing this thread. We know you have repeated yourself, and so have we. We are not staying an opinion, we are stating facts. Facts are not based on opinion. So once again: They don't handle the language part that way because that's not how it's done. We have presented to you plenty "on the merits", yet you refuse to listen and insult us.

    Now, let this be the end of this and have this thread return to it's topic.
     
    #24
  5. krazzykid2006

    krazzykid2006 Rear Admiral

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    If you pay close attention to the Steam store page you will see that they only claim to have partial multilingual support.

    The only category that is shown to be supported multilingual at this point in time is the UI interface.
    If the entire UI interface isn't supported then they have a problem.

    Missions and other text isn't advertised as being supported at this time, so they aren't obligated to yet....

    Since a picture is worth a thousand words, see how only 1 category has any check marks in the picture below? That is direct from the store page. Even English isn't fully supported yet, no languages are.
     

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  6. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    ".........but waiting for help from volunteers, the Red Cross Society or the Pope, you risk being left behind." Or friendlier and more willing to lend a hand Russian Players who are not as stubborn like you (which is actual part of the Russian Soul;)) in their refusal.

    Google Translate:

    Или более дружелюбные и более готовые помочь русским игрокам, которые не так упрямы, как вы (что на самом деле является частью Russian Soul;)) в своем отказе.
     
    #26
  7. Khaleg

    Khaleg Commander

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    @Kratos

    You lost your argument in the very moment that you wrote this: "If they, for example, were from India, do you think they would act in the same arrogance?"

    The only arrogant guy here is you. You entered here like a moose in a glassware, and you want your arguments, if you have one, being listened.

    Look, I speak one of the most widespread languages in the world, and I play in English, even I enter here and make the effort of writing in a different language, and you know what? I am happy with the experience, because is enriching me. So, instead moaning about, go learn other languages, adapt yourself to the surroundings, instead trying to impose your view of the world. Your attitude has a very short legs and you will not go very far. You have been very far of being friendly here.
     
    #27
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  8. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Eleon never asked for volunteers, the idea of translating into other languages came from the community. At first there was this isolated effort from French players (I can't speak for other languages) and after an initial translation was completed, the thread went quiet for a few months. I bumped the thread to see where things were standing regarding translation, on June 20th, 2017 (post #14) :

    https://empyriononline.com/threads/translation-patch-fr.2467/#post-138205

    The following day, on June 21, 2017, Hummel-o-War followed up by creating the sub-forums for other languages, but there was not one single reference to "translation" in there, as you will see :

    https://empyriononline.com/threads/read-first-introduction.11856/

    And there the community members who wanted translation began working on it right away, and offered the completed translation some days later. As the game got changes and updates, the developers then gave us the missing parts to be added to the localization file to keep up to date, and we can see in that move that they did not have to do this, it was a favor in return for our work to make things easy for us, instead of having to search through the whole file.

    Long story short : you got your story completely wrong, Eleon never asked anything here, it came from the players in the first place, and Eleon extended a helping hand to the volunteers when they saw players worked seriously on the matter.
     
    #28
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  9. bashfullsson

    bashfullsson Lieutenant

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    OK, simple question: when will EXP version hit? F5 key on my keyboard is already worn.
     
    #29
  10. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    Dates to note: The experimental phase might start in early may. In order to get the maximum insights on server performance, we currently discuss having the experimental server files being released one week later. We will of course have official experimental servers for that time.
     
    #30
  11. Thorwine

    Thorwine Commander

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    From Discord:
    [​IMG]
     
    #31
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  12. Kratos

    Kratos Ensign

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    I don’t know what you’re talking about in the first paragraphs, but in order to understand what I wrote, I had to read my first statement. I stand on the fact that all languages are equally respected. And although English is international (the Chinese will laugh at you), you should not ignore other languages just because this is a game and it should be sold. And the language is the reach of the audience. And since the developers have undertaken to translate, let them do it efficiently and on time.
    And the fact that I was walking between the dishes, that I have short legs, about your statement that you need to learn English - I can only judge that you have a lot of time and little education. And I'm not looking for friendship with anyone here, I want the game that I like to develop and be better. If this requires me to spend a few minutes pointing out their mistakes to developers, I will sacrifice them.
     
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  13. Kratos

    Kratos Ensign

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    So. I'm glad Eleon took up a position opposite to Rockstar. They officially announced that they would not translate into Russian and, in addition, prohibited the use of mods that players would make for each other (localization mods). In accordance with this, they received a worthy collapse of the GTA rating in Steam.
    So I am glad that Eleon does not stick a spoke in the wheels of enthusiasts and volunteers, interfering with their translation. I am also glad that the game is open to different mods, including those that translate the product language into their native language for everyone.
    But there is a big BUT. Do they have the right, without making even a fraction of the effort, to put a checkbox in Steam stating that the game has been translated and will be translated in the future? I remember that only the interface was translated. But since the dialogues are a continuation and part of the game, they cannot be left to chance.
    By the way, this was only the first point. And the second point is the same modifications. The more players there are and the more famous and desirable she becomes, Aelion will inevitably face cheaters and such an abundance of bugs (which is now on Edem's mods) that they will seriously think about banning the mods. To fix the situation that has developed thanks to these mods.
    So the translation should be official, in-game, not modded. And looking at mods, you should expand the game in this direction, without departing from the general direction. The value of mods is determined by the number of people playing on mod servers. This is an indicator that can be used.
     
    #33
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  14. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    And now my watch has ended...:D

    I am Austrian btw ;)
     
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  15. Kratos

    Kratos Ensign

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    I'm not sure if you understand what I wrote, but I still hope. By the way, I have a friend from Sydney, we played Siege with him.
     
    #35
  16. Khaleg

    Khaleg Commander

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    I have no more time or less that other people here. I have a full time job, 5 days at week, since more than 25 years. It is not question of having time or not having time, all depends on priorities and interests. The only thing that I can say is that I learnt English (the little English that I know) by myself, so you can imagine my interest in this.

    About education. I judged your attitude here, that it is something that all people reading you can see. But, when you judge my education, you are extrapolating too much, from few or inexistent information about me, I will not do the same with you.

    I understand, up to certain point, your points, but you should understand that not all languages can be covered at the same level and at the same time, nor the difficulties are the same. Not having a specific translation for a language is not having less respect for this language or the people speaking it. This is my opinion, you have the yours, of course.

    I am not here to make friends neither, but I understand that this is a community, including the devs, and in every community, protocols, respect and education are important. I do not know if you understand the same, and I have no more to say.
     
    #36
  17. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Many of the major studios/ distributors earned their bad reputations by killing popular franchises and treating their players like milk cows, they can hardly be compared to a small indie team keeping in touch with their players and polling them for features & such.

    Yes, all content made by players with any of the game components can be grabbed by Eleon, as stated in the EULA. I'm not saying I agree with the current quality here, just addressing the "rights" topic. Just like there's no middle between "recommend" and "not recommend" on Steam, there's no way to write "well translated" or "poorly translated" in one language or the other. The developers have to rely on the volunteers for quality in the languages they don't know ( apart from German and English).

    Some parts of mods can be profitable to the default game, and some might not be. Lots of players like Empyrion because of the freedom to choose in the sandbox universe, and don't like being restricted into a linear story or reduced to grind for resources or find a specific switch in a fortress that they could instead blow up entirely from a big ship. Some players may like mass/ volume/ CPU/ power usage to be balanced in a very "realistic" way, and some may want a more loose balance giving a large advantage to the player (because... it's a game, and players prefer winning over losing), so even there Eleon has to be careful as to what they want to integrate into the game.

    Lots of players never come to forums, the vast majority has not written a review (20k only on 500K +) so we can't really say that "players want this or that" without keeping this in mind. Some players may have put the game on a shelf many years ago, knowing it had a long way to go before being completed, and they might either appreciate or dislike the state of the game when trying it again after many years if the development only followed the vocal players on forums. Players that played continuously from the time they bought the game tend to get bored and push to get the difficulty level cranked up, and this is bad for new or casual players. Popular scenarios do not solve the problem for new players, they tend to cather to veterans that are already bored (after thousands of hours...) of the base game.

    So even if some players want to see some popular mods/ scenarios to be included in the base game, I personnally oppose to this, for game performance reasons (the API mods slow down the game, some very badly), and scenarios rely on players for bug fixing and require separate updates coming from the workshop, and Eleon has no obligation regarding this but they do have to check if some bugs come from the default game or are strictly related to a player-made scenario, and this robs developer time to address "mods" problems while lots of players do not play these other scenarios or don't use the mods.

    That is one of the reasons I am often offering help to tweak balance/ weapons etc, because players can stop pulling on the developer's sleeves for these mundane fixes, and the devs can focus on important matters for the default game. Seeing the developers trying to fix player-made content in this context is a bit frustrating, as it makes me think the "development" may become a contest between players as tho who will make "the best mods" and "the best scenarios" so the devs can grab them and include in base game, transferring their responsibility on players.

    But that's a bit off-topic regarding translation, which is done on a voluntary basis when not English/ German. For mods and scenarios, I'm not pushing to get then included in the default game and I don't want to either. Eleon is already moving away from the linear design of quests, trying to change the system so clues for quests can be found in various places, instead of being forced into a strict player-to-waypoint system. That's great news for what's coming next.
     
    #37
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  18. Thor'sHammer

    Thor'sHammer Commander

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    Well THAT's bloody obvious as you insist on ignoring or twisting EVERY single reply to you explaining the VERY simple concept that translations are a PLAYER driven concept, that the Devs are a very small Indie studios with small budget, and you could could have easy translated the whole storyline by now in the time you've spent here being stubborn and disagreeable.

    Translations being handled by PLAYERS is far from a concept unique to this game, it has been so since gaming began. Having been gaming for over 40 years I can state that it has always been true unless the game was published by a giant studio like EA.

    Which goes back to:
    You are doing the exact opposite of what you want. You are being rude to the very group that could help your cause to get the game translated. Repeatedly calling the Devs bad names for not doing something that YOU want is pointless. Alienating the community by your rude attitude is equally pointless and causes people to dismiss you when you DO make an occasional valid point. However, your insistence that they drop everything and translate to Russian immediately isn't one of them.
     
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    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  19. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    I've seen people offer to help translate missions into their language.
    I've seen people demand that it's translated and call others names because it's not translated into their language.

    Guess which languages are more likely to be translated first?

    Remember that in general, no one, whether it's an individual or a giant multinational corporation, is under any obligation to provide their product in a particular language (though I'm sure there are certain exceptions to this).
    Especially a game.

    Making insulting demands is a great way to not get the changes you're looking for.

    And just to add, I've personally been insulted and called names because my own scenario wasn't translated into their language.
     
    #39
  20. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    How dare you!:p;)
    Bulle.gif
     
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