We need to talk about CV turrets

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by RadElert_007, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Gawain

    Gawain Commander

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    Just because you have not experienced it does not mean that it does not exist. This falls back to the common denominator point I made earlier. I have a performance PC, My work internet is top notch but my home internet sux. I experience lag all the time. Additional space bases would not stop this. Even if you had 1k anti griefing in space, you would still have factions multi base and place 30 to 40 cores in the same location. It would be roulette as to whether or not we warped into a super lag location. Keep in mind your ship appears before you do. So if you warp the lag can be on your end. Meaning your ship is defenseless until you render in. As a PVPer I could exploit this. Vs starter CVs a new player could lose everything to a POI simply do to lag.

    It is not wise to assume that anyone of us represent the status que.
     
    #61
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  2. ☣.C.H.U.D.☣

    ☣.C.H.U.D.☣ Commander

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    I am running a First Gen Quadcore and 4g video card....still no problems
    Edit
    I think the (1x1x1x1) is good idea for server anyways

    CV/SV/HV/Base

    Why would you need anymore then that
    if you want to create ships then do it in Creative
     
    #62
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  3. Gawain

    Gawain Commander

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    Simple because most of us build things for different applications. I have a mining vessel, a light POI vessel, a war ship, and a carrier. I also have a digger, harvester, and combat HVs. Each focused on one aspect of the game. Trying to fit everything you need into one unit is unpractical. It also leads to a total loss narrative that promotes rage quits. Every PVP raid would equate to starting fresh and you would end up with Apha factions trolling servers for superiority.

    Again your system is more than the status quo, but not by much. A bulk of players have an onboard stock graphics. I think the latest digital census said 65% of PC gamers do so on mother board graphics. There to Internet plays a major roll. You cant hold a point with half the argument.
     
    #63
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  4. ☣.C.H.U.D.☣

    ☣.C.H.U.D.☣ Commander

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    I know what you're saying bro...
    I was once a "straight up PVE'er"
    But after close to 1000 hrs of playing this game i learned that its both no matter where you go.(Which i enjoy that option on the fly)
    Private servers i can understand because they just want to build,Explore(i get it,I love it,you see my Screenshots..That is only 1 ship i built)

    So i started building all my ships for PvP/PVE
    it took time to Figure out the "hitches" in building PVP/Utility vehicles
    But that 6-7 layers of Combat steel is ridiculous.

    Damn my 10 year old system is better then 65%...holy crap son.....they have Potatoes with Wires in thier Stuff?

    Gamer -
    "this game is so laggy it sucks"
    This is his PC and he complains
    [​IMG]
     
    #64
  5. Gawain

    Gawain Commander

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    Har har. Take it out of context. You still fail to accept the point. There are mother board coming out with better stock graphic than your card. The point is that planned obsolescence will continue to define the average ability of systems across the gaming community. And again you ignore data flow (aka the internet). Neither you nor I set the example of the status quo. Assumption that lag and DCs are Not and issue because you have not experience them is naive. There has been more than enough reports and streaming evidence to support.

    I personally retrieved a CV for an acquaintance several times, because every time they warped into a PVE space their ship warp in and they DCed only to re-logged on to their departure area. Reason the clustered population of cores in space and his internet sux.

    Additionally you are not going to convince this crowed that we all need to start building all-in-ones.
     
    #65
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  6. ☣.C.H.U.D.☣

    ☣.C.H.U.D.☣ Commander

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    i'm not convincing anybody of anything
    Do i look like a Hippy Liberal to you?
    Do whatever you want i'm just saying it is what it is

    PC i play this Game on (Because its not necessary to play on a high end machine) isn't even my Gaming PC it's my HTPC
    My gaming PC has a 11g Graphics card,32g Ram,1 TB SSD and a I7 Quadcore 4.3ghz
    But TBH its not much difference really..has all the same lag and the same FPS
    But this a Alpha game,it's understandable

    Gaming on laptops..that stuff is so 1990

    Edit
    Yeah i do have Awesome Internet that does make a difference
     
    #66
  7. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    I Like this approach better Hummel. I never like the idea that people are not forced to play up to the competition in games likes this. We always have to play down to the competition and nerf ships and weapons that are supposed to be over powered. CVs are not suppose to be some weak transport and when a CV makes its way to a planet it's suppose to dominate. CVs are the flag ships, when they show up unless you have a squad of SVs , are another CV or a ANTI CV ground weapon then it's game over for you. Base weapons are suppose to be stronger and giving bases anti CV weapons would be great. I can think of plenty of movies where the CV style ship comes planet side for an invasion or other reasons.

    When a few people were asking to give Multiple players servers the ability to keep Capital ships from landing on planets then I thought it would only be fair if every single Capital Vessel gets tthe ability to target any thing on the planet from Space and take it out.
    In my opinion there is no reason for there to be more than two planets that are protected from CVs in the game. Those planets should be restricted to new players and once you've reach a high enough level then you're not allowed on the protected planets anymore.

    This idea that being on a planet especially a PVP planets means you're safe from any type of invasion from a large CV just seems lame to me. I understand there has to be at least one or two planets that are safe planets so new players can get up to speed with everyone else but the rest of the planets should be Open Season for CVs, SVs, HVs or any other type of vehicle that decides to come planetside and destroy stuff.

    Hummel I like this idea, give Bases stronger ground turrets and some type of EMP weapons then leave it up to the players to defend themselves. Plus adding shields to the game in my opinion will help as well.
     
    #67
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  8. Xenophon

    Xenophon Commander

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    Off topic but this just proves xp system is useless. You grind until level 25 then real game starts. If you started at level 25 you wouldnt need pve planets in pvp servers at all.
     
    #68
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  9. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    I agree . CVs shouldn't be restricted on planets. What happen to the days where players had to figure out how get out of a certain situation then something that is suppose to be more powerful getting nerfed or banned?

    When people say CVs are too OP for planets, I'm thinking DUH, they are suppose to be OP. The answer isn't you just ban them from planets, you have to find a way to survive. This is a SURVIVAL game not a "Lets ban anything that is too OP for me game" LOL It's not meant to be easy for you.
    I love insane competition, I love being a new player and running from bigger ships it adds to the enjoyment for me but that is just me.
    If it gets too much, I can always play Single player which I play a lot of .

    I think a lot of this will get a lot better once Space becomes more active and CVs will have a lot to keep them busy in Space because right now SPACE still isn't that entertaining. I would love to see more ships and bigger more powerful AI controlled CVs in Space that are trying to hunt me down. Also AI Controlled Fleets in space that are looking destroy Player CVs and SVs
     
    #69
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  10. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    You can make a base right now that can take out most of the CVs built in this game. Just dig a hole under your base a few levels. down Place the core generators and fuel tanks there then use the Connect to Base feature build weapons platforms with two or more turrets on them and spread them around your base. I have weapons plantforms sitting on Mountains while my base is in the valley in between the mountains. All I have to do is keep the ammo filled up and if someone stupid enough to take a CV near my base and got pounded by my weapons platforms while they try to hit my underground core. It's really not that hard.
     
    #70
  11. Gawain

    Gawain Commander

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    That just it they are not OP they simply allow players to misusing a game mechanic and restricting gun use was the easiest method to rectify it. Guns fire past their range and we have range finders built into everything. It is broken when you can engage an enemy an they can not return fire. HVs and SVs are never really stationary. For an SV to hover and fire it must pitch down which starts the glide. HVs only have vantage points from the ground level. Both require far more effort to exploit. A CV can approve a POI or unmanned Player asset and fire just outside of lock on range. Then they can pic it apart with most long range weapons, simply by firing beyond max range. Player assisted targeting will surgically take out all defenses until the CV can park on the target and pound down to the core.

    That is a broken mechanic. No different than taking the fuel out of a POI so that when it respawns it is powered down. I dont like that CVs where disabled but I understand why, and I believe there are better ways of resolving the issue. I also understand that those ways will take time. If the Devs rely only on patches this game will loose appeal fast. So far the devs have worked with the players to better the game. Being angry without trying to understand will not resolve anything.

    Balance is needed otherwise the player is forced into one play style. I doubt anyone will win a debate suggesting that OP is good or OK, because it has proven game after game to be broken and less fun. Dont get me wrong nearly every OP broken game offers alternatives but to utilize them you are placing yourself behind the competitive curve. Balance is necessary! How they balance anything is the important part.
     
    #71
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  12. Xenophon

    Xenophon Commander

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    uh artillery is supposed to have larger range than other turrets, thats why its called... artillery.
     
    #72
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  13. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    CV in any SCI FI TV show or even Capital Naval Ships in the real world military have extremely long range. They don't have to get close to land to take anything out. CVs are suppose to have long range attacks. That is not a broken mechanic that.s REAL LIFE. lol You think a CV is suppose to have the same range as a SV or HV? NOO.. To be honest CVs in any movie or real world Naval vessels ALWAYS see you coming before you see them and can take you out. In the SCI FI world a CV can take out a lot of targets planetside from Space.
    CV isn't on the same level as other ships and a base is the only thing in the game that should be able to match a CV's range and power or be more powerful than a CV.
    Restricting Guns isn't the easy way to fix it, it's way to keep certain PVPers from crying about something being too hard or too OP. Instead of learning how to play the game.
    How is changing the way a ship is SUPPOSE to function fixing anything? The only way to fix it is giving a base more powerful weapons but beyond that it's on the other players to learn how to deal with it. Giving SVs some type of EMP and electronic warfare weapons would help as well.
    But what I laugh at is, I can build a base right now that can take out most CVs, It really isn't that hard, so I know a lot this comes from players who want this game in Multiplayer to be easy. Which I do believe new players should have protection from CVs til a certain level but after they get to a certain level there should not be any planet that they're allowed on where a CV can't invade that planets with all its weapons.
    There is a difference between calling for balance and pandering to players that refuse to up their skill level. A CV are the FLAG Ships of the fleet, when it comes planet side it's a BIG event. It doesn't force players into one playing style, at least not skilled players.
    I don't mean to rant but I think this whole CV limiting weapons have more to do with players who want everything in MP easy .
    Someone with a CV will be more powerful than you but a CV takes a lot to maintain. So there is the trade off.
    I think CVs should be given back full use of their Weapons on planet and yes they should have a long range because that is just reality but give bases more powerful turrets and give them the ability to match the CVs range. Other than that, it's up to players to learn how to deal with it.
    If you watch most TV shows, you see squad of Fighters trying to take out a CV even when its on the planet. The way it is right now one really well built SV can take out a CV while on the planet.
     
    #73
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
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  14. Nogitsune

    Nogitsune Commander

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    Well it's true that if ALL of the BA weapons would outrange ALL of the CV weapons, then it'll make weapon ranges kind of meaningless. It removes one aspect of weapons from the game, you might as well set BA weapon = 1500 range, CV weapon = 1000 range, SV/HV weapon = 500 range, which is kind of boring.

    It would make more sense to set it up so that BA outranges CV type per type. Just as an example, BA artillery 1500, CV artillery 1400. BA railguns 1100, CV railguns 1000. And so forth. If base has only miniguns (or sentry guns for that matter), doesn't make sense it'll still outrange CV artis.

    -- edit --
    Giving BA a slightly longer range than CV is technically just giving them 'same range', in a sense that BA can't abuse the higher range. If there's 100m difference, and the CV chooses to linger in that 100m range, it's not the base that is to be blamed.
     
    #74
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  15. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    Yes very true.
     
    #75
  16. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    But it's up to the bases owner to upgrade it's weapons to turrets to the point where its well protected. I feel like this game is built around keeping certain players comfortable at one level. There is no motivation to upgrade your weapons because planetside is too protected.

    Now giving a BA longer range and more powerful weapons than the CV is the best you can do in my opinion. Give the BASE a really big laser style cannon that can rip part combat blocks with one or two shots. Set your turrets to target the core and generator and throw in some homing missiles for bases. then Problem solved.
    Plus you can arrange your turrets in a way that a CV can't get close to your base with out taking a lot hits. . You can kind of do that right now it's just that players want everything easy in this game. Instead of taking time to plan their base out.
     
    #76
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  17. banksman45

    banksman45 Rear Admiral

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    Maybe this won't happen in Empyrion but this is think of when I talk about CVs on planet. . lol
    ISDNaboo.jpg
     
    #77
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  18. Gawain

    Gawain Commander

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    True, however, (Note I have not tested the over range) I believe the over range is more than 100m. It would have to be greater than the over shot plus a bit for gun placements. The point is to eliminate the fire from safety exploit. This means more than one gun needs to be able to have a bearing on a target. Otherwise CVs will simply roll in on one corner of BA bring multiple CV guns to bear against a single BA gun.

    Potential Solutions (taking into account over range and a buffer for Gun spacing)

    Allow BAs more artillery, 4 would do it.
    Make the buffer no less than 50m on top of the overrange
    And fix articulations to allow the longest range guns a 90 degree up rotation.
     
    #78
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  19. Gawain

    Gawain Commander

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    On that concept you could have a gun that tracks so slowly that it is not practical to use against HV/SVs. Guns Specifically designed for CVs like Ion Cannons. These guns would not even track HV/SVs and have a range far superior to that of CVs. I like where you are going with this. Honestly I Dont like compartmentalization of units but this would allow CVs to participate while makeing SVs and HVs more effective.
     
    #79
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  20. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    I think this is the proper way to go about solving the problem, so long as CVs also get some kind of massive weapon (I favor a fixed spinal-mount type) that they could deploy against BAs and other CVs with proper maneuvering (probably with somewhat less range than the BA's anti-CV cannon). Round things out by giving anti-CV/BA torpedoes to SVs and HVs, and then you have a pretty nice system.
     
    #80

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