Weight and Space for Cargo

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by BlackJack777, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. BlackJack777

    BlackJack777 Ensign

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    Do the devs ever plan on making items weigh anything and take up space?

    This would make the game feel so much more realistic.

    Why should a tiny SV be able to carry enough ingots to build 10 battleships?
     
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  2. Frankyln

    Frankyln Rear Admiral

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    I would love to see weight and proper cargo storage but you need to look at the player carrying capacity too. As it is right now it would not make much sense. To do weight properly you would first need a way to separate player combat gear from creative inventory. To make it plausible you would need to explain how the character can access so much inventory. It's not a simple task.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  3. BlackJack777

    BlackJack777 Ensign

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    I think you're right. Its not a simple task.

    I don't think it has to be 100% realistic though. If it were, how would anyone ever place a giant constructor block down? Putting some limitations on size and weight would be good though.
     
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  4. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    I think the best compromise for the moment is to have all ship inventories have mass, and leave the player inventory alone for the moment. If players want to try carry around all their building materials in their inventories to circumvent this, I'd say it's better than the current situation of no inventories having mass.
     
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  5. Sofianinho

    Sofianinho Captain

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    Maybe using something like the item dispenser in Planet Nomads ?
     
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  6. Frankyln

    Frankyln Rear Admiral

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    I agree but when half solutions are implement it tends to make the full solution never happen.
     
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  7. Kaeser

    Kaeser Rear Admiral

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    Well if you ask me all we see around us may just be energy in different states...

    Higgs and the guys at CERN have yet to convince me they actually found something.....
     
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  8. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    That is a fair point. However, there's no way to fix flight dynamics if we don't account for the mass of inventories, and I'd say that we need good ship movement more than we need more realistic player inventories. Plus, I think the two inventory issues can be dealt with separately anyway.

    We know from Einstein that matter and energy are interchangeable, but we also know that energy warps spacetime in the same way that matter does. So you can't cheat by converting your inventory to the equivalent amount of energy; it'd behave like it had mass anyway.
     
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  9. Kaeser

    Kaeser Rear Admiral

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    Well yeah but gravity probably only relates to the matter state otherwise we would have found the unifying point already....
     
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  10. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    Err, no. Both matter and energy tell spacetime how to curve, and in turn spacetime tells matter and energy how to move (which is what gravity does). The unification you're referring to is with quantum mechanics, but everything we've been discussing here is classical (too large to be quantum), so we only have to worry about general relativistic effects.
     
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  11. Kaeser

    Kaeser Rear Admiral

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    Well I am way off my area here but what gives mass to matter is the binding energy that holds the quarks together inside the proton right, so by splitting it we would have a far weaker gravitational field and also less weight
     
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  12. Frankyln

    Frankyln Rear Admiral

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    My brain Hurts.:confused: Just call it magic.

    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
    Arthur C. Clarke​
     
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  13. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, most of the mass of a proton or neutron comes from the field energy of the strong force (technically the color force in this context). But quarks really really don't like to be unconfined, so you can't really separate them at normal temperatures (and if you manage to, you've put in enough energy to create new quarks, and you end up with two new hadrons rather than separated quarks). Plus, even if there were a way to separate quarks without putting in massive amounts of energy, you still would have to do something with the strong force field energy (and it would be a lot of energy, which would have most of the mass of the object).

    Unless we're invoking some new physics that lets us generate a field that locally reduces mass (see Mass Effect), there's no way around inventories having the mass of their contents. And I'd say that this is the best way to proceed at present; then, in the future, if it's decided that such new physics does exist in this universe, inventories can be given a multiplier (depending on the inventory) that reduces the effective mass of the contents (and it would be a buff rather than a nerf). In the past, I have proposed a factor of 10 for CV/BA cargo boxes, but a factor of 1 for SV/HV cargo boxes and all other inventories (except the player inventory, which would still have zero mass until a better building system is figured out).
     
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  14. BlackJack777

    BlackJack777 Ensign

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    I would much rather see size restrictions than weight restrictions.

    My reasoning is that the game would be much more interesting if you had to actually transport 100k ingots in a giant space freighter rather than in a tiny CV with 2 boxes on it. :D

    This would create more dynamic bases as well as there would need to be specific areas set up to store large amounts of material. Having a single room that can hold upwards of several million ingots is kind of boring. How about a new item block called a silo that can hold 100k ingots but is 2-3 times larger than a constructor. The devs could implement some sort of transport block (shaped like a small tunnel) that connects storage items together and allows you to access all of the stored items at the same time.

    Sometimes more difficult is better. If the easy way out was always the best way, the game would be permanently in Creative mode.
     
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  15. Gawain

    Gawain Commander

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    Class sizes would actually have to relate to size for that to work. Class size refers more to render than anything else. You can have a tiny ship with an extemly high tangle count, out size class a ship that is 3 times bigger.

    I like the thought it would adds flavor to game especially if weight effected thruster function as well, but the classification of Size Class need to be redone first. It may be better simply to come up with another category called Mass which is factored base on ton-age and local gravity. Just some thoughts.

    Also if we are going to consider weight than why not bulk as well?
     
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  16. Frankyln

    Frankyln Rear Admiral

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    We already have bulk its just badly calculated.
    Stack size plus slots in container = Volume(Bulk)

    I would prefer pure volume it way easier to balance.
     
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  17. Gawain

    Gawain Commander

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    Me too. Well Said.
     
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  18. Sofianinho

    Sofianinho Captain

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    Hummel did say (I don't remember where exactly, was a discussion about the new SV warp drive I believe) that SV cargo boxes will carry less than CV cargo boxes.
    My issue is why would you seek realism in a vessel's cargo capacity, if the player can carry 10000 tons of material in his backpack ? rhetorical question.
     
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  19. geostar1024

    geostar1024 Rear Admiral

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    Because the player shouldn't be able to carry 10000 tons of material in their backpack. The only reason to do this is to build large structures, which I (and others) argue would be better done using a combination of the drone and automatic pulling of materials from cargo boxes within the range of the drone. The player would build as normal (perhaps with the drone flying around carrying blocks and devices), except they'd have all the materials within range available to build with instead of just what's in their backpack (which I know I'd appreciate, as I tend to sort my materials into a multitude of cargo boxes in my bases).
     
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  20. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    If we take on weight, we need to add kind of „logistics“ to avoid that you have to use the inventory for moving items form one container into another.

    But tbh..running around with a filled inventory will be a thing of the past then ;-)
     
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