Feedback Required Wishlist: BUILDING blocks and structural devices

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Hummel-o-War, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    We already have some other threads in this forum on the more global question of which devices or blocks (in general) could be added - or are wanted.

    THIS thread now, will ask you a bit more specificall about the following

    1. Which BUILDING Blocks (eg. Materials, Shapes missing,...) are on your with list as a NEW or REWORK candidate
    2. Which STRUCTURAL Blocks (eg. shapes or types for animated devices like doors etc) are on your withlist as a NEW or REWORK candidate
    3. Which devices do you think are ripe for an optical rework?

    Not asked for are any block or device which would need new mechanics added.

    This thread is specifically for
    - FILLING THE GAPS (like missing shapes for material blocks)
    - or point out candiates for an optical REWORK
    - or adding new VARIANTS of already existing devices or blocks

    Off we go :)

    For wishes that include the rework or addition of features that are not yet in the game, please use this thread: https://empyriononline.com/threads/blocks-and-devices-wish-list.11340/
     
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  2. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    Examples:
    - More Forcefield sizes
    - Double-Side variants for walkway/railing blocks
    - Round and < > doors
    ....
     
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  3. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    IMPORTANT: If you suggest a SHAPE or a VARIANT of anything.. please MAKE A DRAWING or find some other way to illustrate what you mean.

    Given the experiences with the A10 discussions around Blockshapes, having a visual concept we can refer to is absolutely neccessary, especially for shapes.
    • If you just want a device or block in a different size or scale, you do of course NOT need to add a drawing.
    • If you want something in a different shape, orientation or setup (and in particual for ANY shape request), it is enought to make a screenshot and use paint. ;)
    • If you want a new block or structural device the game has no other example yet (so something completely new, like other deco or such) you can of course use pictures, mockups or similar from around the web
     
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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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  4. Kaeser

    Kaeser Rear Admiral

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    My request here goes for alien versions of all devices

    Well, they might not need farms or beds but they need generators and fuel tanks.......

    Apart from that, block centered doors and round and tilted doors, in the Z or Y axis
     
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  5. StyleBBQ

    StyleBBQ Captain

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    Wow Hummel, you're a very brave guy! :D

    Shields: first choice would be a Modular system where you'd start off with a Base Shield that was only say 1x1x2 and did very little and had very slow recharge, but lower energy-in, both charging & idle. Would then build it up by adding Mod Blocks: HitPoints, RechargeRate.
    -- since that's likely not a near thing;
    CV Starter Shield of 2x2x1 or 3x2x1 or 2x2x2 or 3x2x2.
    -- argument for a 1 block tall on one axis is to allow sleeker small CVs.
    -- personally I'd be fine if this wasn't upgradable in-place and the next step up meant larger and you'd lose the stored Pentaxid/HPs

    CV Warp: addition of a Short Range Warp Drive, same sizes as for shield above, same ok w not upgradeable.
    -- Mass & Volume (which is great!) does make using SVs for hauling even a couple few hundred tons a bit challenging.

    More reasonable requests;

    BA/CV O2 Tanks of 1/2 block & plate(?) sizes, like the recent Ventilator shapes.

    New Shapes for Windows/Armored: as you mentioned Hummel, "Double-Side variants for walkway/railing blocks" but Windows, 1x1 & 1x2.
    -- Four Sided, both 'ends' open (like the armor block with a cylindrical hole through it) so could make enclosed hampster runs.
    - - - could use a Corner for those so two adjacent sides open
    - - - and a 'U' three-sides to be able to make T intersections.

    Elevator Block: add a more expensive Enclosed Version. Basically merge Windows onto Elevators. Would match up with the windows/hampster run bits above.
    -- would need variations, One-side-Open, two opposite sides open, etc.

    My Number One!

    Spotlights that have similar Hitpoints as Armor blocks, and at least a couple more shapes.
    -- the Slope Edge(?) the smaller of the two blocks that make the shallow ramp, light shining out horizontally
    -- the Plate (thin wall)
     
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  6. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    I am afraid thats exactly not the topic of the thread, as includes feature or balancing changes. ;)
    The second part of your list goes more in the direction i am searching for.
     
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  7. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    Already noted and considered and already thinking about where exactly to start at ;)
     
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  8. StyleBBQ

    StyleBBQ Captain

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    Fair 'nough! :)

    CV Shield Generator Size: 3x2x1 , same as the SV/HV Shield.

    Pic showing hampster run concept. Ignore the orange blocks, just support.
    Blue indicates what could be a new Wall Low Double block.
    [​IMG]

    Pic showing ghost of Ramp C Medium that would be great to have as a Spotlight. Steel block has 344 HPs, if Spotlight could have similar?
    Ramp B Medium would also be cool as a Spotlight.
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. StyleBBQ

    StyleBBQ Captain

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    @Hummel-o-War , apologies, I just realized I read your "More Forcefield sizes" as more 'Shield Generator sizes'... doh! :oops:

    a) Door at a 45 deg angle.

    b) a course grate 'Wall' thickness armor block; with holes we could shoot through but couldn't walk or fall through the openings.
    -- like a jail cell or a storm drain grate. useable as a fence or an overhead walkway to stop/shoot spiders & raptors.

    optical rework) with all the new stuff the LCDs/Projectors can do I was looking at the Constructors/Deconstructor/Furnace and thought it might be useful & cool if their models had a side or two sculpted to fit 1x1 or 1x2 LCDs.
     
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  10. Thorwal

    Thorwal Ensign

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    I like the idea of Hangar modules from Space Engeneers (Sorry ;)). For example 1x1x3. Put several modules together for a hangar gate. If there were three modules 3, 4 and 5 high, almost anything is possible.

    More doors would be nice. I like the new double doors (although you can not completely change the texture). Round doors, sloping doors (45 degrees), etc.

    In addition, the hangar gates and the new ramps should open much slower. They weigh several tons and open in 2 seconds. When I'm standing on the ramps in the wrong place, I break my bones every time because I just fall down. They open up too fast.
     
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  11. Ravis

    Ravis Commander

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    Sv hv o2 station could use a few alternates. Having a down or up or... Direction on it might be nice.

    In the railing block group there's the silver vent that's at 45' it would be nice to get the 90' version so we don't have to pull it from the harden steel version and add satheum to the build.

    More designs of vents (railing block group) in general.
     
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  12. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    You mean Hangar Doors?
     
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  13. TrashMan

    TrashMan Commander

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    Railing and walkways - COMBO blocks are BADLY needed.

    Walkway + railing as one block.
    Walkway + corner railing as one block
    Walkway + 2 railings on each side as one block.

    Right now we are wasting a lot more blocks and volume than necessary, which also means you can't place anything ELSE in that spot.
     
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  14. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    1: More shapes of Truss Blocks
    Specifically half-block (slab) shapes are probably the most important shapes missing. To match their armor variant names: Cube Half, Ramp A, Ramp C Medium and Ramp C Half being the most important.

    2: Alternative variants of Walkways and Handrails
    Our current selection are very... ill-fitting, both in style and in shape.
    The current walkway is unnatural to say the least. It's almost black by default, which makes it exceedingly difficult to color and the style of it doesn't match any real world analogue. What we need is an Industrial Factory-type walkway (just google image search "Industrial Walkway" for a variety of matching walkways and handrails to go with them.
    Shape-wise, we need shapes that match the shape of the handrails. So we're still missing a curved and sloped edge.
    Another variant would be a combined walkway with handrails on both sides as a single block.

    3: Elevator Variant
    StyleBBQ already covered the well... covered variants. I'm more referring to non-elevator elevators: I'm calling them "Ladders." An ingenius invention that lets the player climb walls. Cool huh? It's just a regular elevator that looks like a ladder. No climbing animations or anything.

    4: Window Variants
    I suppose you'd call this a Compound Window. A variant of armored window (not heavy windows) that includes a section of texturable wall for narrow cockpits and portholes. At present all windows on CV/BA are full-height, which is... not safe. It's also not attractive on bridge windows and crew quarters, which is why heavy windows are seeing so much use.
    Main example shapes: Vertical 1x1 window that is half "Wall Low" armor block. Slope 1x1 window that is half "Wall Sloped". Vertical 1x1 window that is half "Doorframe A/B/C".
    Another set of window shapes that are useful would be seperate halves of Slope 1x2 and Corner 1x2 for more precise window shaping that are extremely limited now on account of being too long/tall on most builds; especially around cockpits.

    5: Shutter Windows
    These are old blocks that need an update. The ability to open and close the shutters would be nice. But most importantly is that the glass in them needs to either match the regular windows (non-opaque, tintable) or at the very least face the right way! The shutters are currently on the INSIDE. The shutters are to protect the window from being hit from the outside, so the glass opaqueness needs to be reversed.
    Whoever thought the glass should be opaque from the inside (the side you look out from) needs to be hit in the face with a shovel.

    6: Boarding Ramp Variants
    This is less a call for new variants and more a call for the old ones to be made usable. Because right now, only the first couple of boarding ramp variants can be used. Boarding Ramps 1x2x3, 2x2x3 and 3x2x3 are all usable on ships. They're not particularly useful being so short and having so little clearance space, but they do work.
    The 6 other larger variants on the other hand are an exercise in futility as they retract into blocks that are so obscenely thick that they barely retract at all, with little more clearance than their smaller variants. Under no circumstances will you ever find a CV with an underside that is both flat and THREE blocks thick. Because that's how thick it has to be to fit the larger boarding ramps and in doing so, has no more clearance from the bottom of the ship to the ground than the smallest variant.
    Boarding Ramps need every single variant to retract into the thickness of a single block. Not two, NOT three. Because one block is the thickness of a ship's hull.
    (Note: An exception is made for PvP vessels, but they're not likely to use a fragile boarding ramp that penetrates 2-3 layers of armor anyway)
    I'd guess the same person who's responsible for shutter window's failings is likely the one who got lazy and just scaled up the small boarding ramp variants instead of making new ones that actually fit the spaces they're intended for. Another shovel for your face, kind sir?
     
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  15. StyleBBQ

    StyleBBQ Captain

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    @Hummel-o-War , I think what @Thorwal is referencing is a SE block that is 1x1xY, and each block extends a couple three blocks.
    So there's no real limit of how 'wide' a hangar door can be, but in SE they used to be limited to only have a 6(?) block tall opening, assuming you used then top & bottom.
    So instead of current EGS 5x3 Hangar Door, you'd just offer a 1x3 Hangar Door Section, and then use as many as you like.
    -- 'opened' (retracted) it would be a 1x1x1 then 'closed' (extended) it's 1x1x3.
    -- so basically the Shutters, but I'm guessing with a more 'heavy duty', Blast Doors look?

    @Vermillion , "...non-elevator elevators: I'm calling them "Ladders". " <snickering, hehehe :D> would be cool though!

    Fully agree with all except; please keep some variant of the Shutter Windows with the shutter bits on the inside, for recessed 'bunker' look.
    -- but otherwise yes, please, as Vermillion suggests.

    ++ talking about blocks that can't really be painted; the Carbon Armor Blocks!
    -- I personally -really- like the default texture of these, but would much prefer to be able to lighten them up to med-dark Grey; so they really stood out. On my system running low-end Vid settings they're basically just totally black.

    ?? probably the wrong thread but I noticed that while the HV/SV Container Extension blocks use a distinctly smaller icon model in the constructors, their Container Controller icons are the same size as the BA/CV CCs are. Searh for 'contain' in a constructor to see :).

    ====

    Had a thought about deco blocks prompted by another thread (?). Their idea was to build all-in-one cabins/quarters (+1). Here's a twist though; 2m 'deep' just isn't enough, and for a 'single', 4m is a bit much. So instead build the room+bath as a 3m x 4m, with walls on three sides. The one wall that's a meter short of the edge would have a cabin door. The extra ~1m makes a narrow but usable passage, or if you face two of these to each other then you'd have a ~2m wide hallway.
    Leaving the 'back' wall off lets them bump up against the outside windows, here Vermillions suggestion for much needed "port hole" or half-height windows would be perfect.
     
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  16. Thorwal

    Thorwal Ensign

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    Tank you @StyleBBQ. That's exactly what I meant. And yes, it should look very massive and heavy. :)

    And they should open much more slowly than they do now. This supports the impression that the gates are very heavy and massive.
     
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  17. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    I am not sure our player controller currently "can" use ladders. And devs will not want to add a ladder if it is just "floating" up (what looks broken, or 2000ish). Or do you just want something "without a physical frame" ?

    Maybe you can make me some "paint draws" on that topics and variants?



    I see the issue but I am afraid this has some issues.

    When you look a the model, reducing the collapsed height to 1 block, this would mean loosing 2 blocks in total extended height, given the model size does not change AND the ramp angle does not become a lot steeper.

    What means: The largest bRamp with 6 blocks "extention height" will be reduced to 4 blocks.
    So to avoid a steep ramp, this size would need to become "longer/larger" in general.
     
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  18. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Projector variants that are meant to be mounted along the floor or ceiling, so similar to how the forcefield block itself looks. This would let you place projectors on windows or on the ceiling easier. :D

    Doors that are 3 wide.

    Clear windows that have very little or no tint.

    Devices with models meant to be seamlessly embedded in walls. For example a constructor model that could be placed inside a wall without any gaps along the edges so it visually fills the full 2x2x2 space. Look at the container controllers for how this could work.

    Tech deco building blocks. These would come in all the same shapes as any other building block and have the same stats as carbon blocks, but would have new "tech" style textures. Textures for things like power conduits, computer cores, wall consoles, displays, wires, lots of cool looking emissive textures, etc. They should have a few standard steel textures but the rest of the texture slots would be devoted to sci-fi textures.

    "Liquid" blocks, which are just a transparent block with an animated water-like texture. Could come in several colors of water as well as lava and toxic slime.

    More styles of lights. A 2x1 sized light, for centering along 2 wide hallways. A corner light, for placing at the outer corner of a block. Allow all the same models of lights for small grid vessels.

    More sci-fi deco in general. Hydroponic farms, animated power conduits, etc.

    Ventilator models that look more like a standard fan.

    Allowing more deco or quality of life devices on more types of structures.. Allow wing blocks on CVs. Gravity generators on SVs. Ramps on SVs and HVs. Console deco on SVs. Etc.
     
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  19. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    Oh yeah... Like the current elevators aren't "broken or 2000ish" where you just float up and down (while consuming your jetpack) without any platform underneath you while unaffected by gravity, even while the elevator isn't powered. Or how hostiles will walk into elevators and get stuck in the frames half-way up. That thing's 1990ish.
    All i'm asking for is an elevator that looks like a ladder.
    I assume you mean "examples" or "diagrams".
    14 Coldmarch_2019-09-22_22-38-17.png
    I used a pair of white lines to seperate an alternative middle window segment for longer/taller windows. As you can see, on a CV/BA those make ideal windows that aren't floor-to-ceiling glass walls and are at the right height to look out of without being unneccesarily thick.

    A 1-thick large ramp would function the same as the current 3-thick large ramp with the exact same steepness. The reason we don't have that is because whoever made the larger ramps was lazy. They simply scaled up the ramp to 200%, so both thickness and uselessness went with the increase in length instead of making a new model out of the old one with greater extension; we ended up with a bigger version of a near-useless version now made completely useless by it's complete inability to be used anywhere coupled with worse problems than the originals.
    The problem with it is in the design of the model itself. It was made too overcomplicated with multiple moving parts that socket into each other when extended and in order to do that at greater extensions the bottom panel had to be made further and further away from the top one. With each block moved away it became less and less usable.
    A simpler method would've been to have the bottom panel guide the top one and NOT slot into it. Instead having the top panel be considerably thicker so that when it extends, the end can telescope out; no longer needing to perfectly fit the bottom panel it could have a shallower or steeper angle depending on variant, irrespective of it's retracted length.
    14 Coldmarch_2019-09-22_22-57-32.png
    These are the 1, 2 and 3 thick variants. Because they're hollow they NEED the overhang of blocks which in turn obstructs the unloading of HVs to the point that it's impossible to fit an HV down Ramp 1, difficult to fit a small HV down ramp 2 and impossible to fit ramp 3 into any ship at all.
    If one doesn't have the overhang of blocks, with the ramp flush with the surrounding hull then you've done two things: Completely rendered the purpose of the ramp obsolete; and made yourself look like a complete idiot: No different from driving down the highway dragging a car door behind your car.
     
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  20. Thorwal

    Thorwal Ensign

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    This! I like the new variants of oxygen and fuel tanks. You can decide for yourself which variant you use. Open, with tanks and pipes (1x2 or 2x2). Or the closed version (1x1).

    It would be nice if you had this choice synonymous with the other devices. Constructor, furnace, deconstructor, oxygen station, all mediacal stations etc.

    I understand the problem with the ramps. Serious question, why is there no freight elevator? Is this not possible with the engine?
     
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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
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