Yet Another Weight/Volume Hit Point Discussion.

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by ViralGamer, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. ViralGamer

    ViralGamer Ensign

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    I will try to keep this short. First, you should know I am a high school teacher certified in both the Physical Sciences and in Computer Science. But, I am not trying to get a job here, just want you to know my background. Please feel free to contest my thoughts. I enjoy the discussion.

    Now then. Straight to the point. It seems to me that any discussion related to mass, volume and hit points should be based in science and therefore, very short. So my question is simple. Why not simply define each of the different materials (i.e. steel, concrete, hardened steel, etc.) by their mass, calculate volume based on the dimensions of each block (object), calculate densities based on their mass and volume and then allow hit points to be a derivative of density. End of discussion. These are easy calculations and based in real science. All you need to define is mass.

    Now, if you have the mass, volume, and density you can allow players to design their ships however they want. RCS are great, but they make it too easy to cover for a bad design. Some ships should just not fly. You should have to tinker a bit with your design to get the thing in the air, and have some more tinkering to make it fly well. Personally, I like to try and build with as few RCS as possible. However, it seems to me that it should be possible, with the right design, to be able to fly a ship with no RCS. RCS should then only be necessary if you are trying to build way outside of science-based standards. So then, the more strange and non-air-worthy your design, the more RCS you will need.

    Basically, you should not need to "tweak" anything but your arbitrary mass values assigned to your materials. Everything else is just a calculation.
     
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  2. nottrox ¯\ (ツ) /¯

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    Well on the one hand, isn't this what is already happening? Every matrial has its cube with standart HP amount (same applies to mass). (eg. Steel cube has 500HP) From there on it goes down to any other shape depending of the volume of this shape. With one little difference to real life: Zero Volume doesn't euqal zero HP because players complained about that the smaller shapes have too few HP. you can check this out on one of the Alpha 9 Updates there was a nice and simple grafic about this.
    Side note: Hitpoints should never depend simply on the mass for real live reasons like Hardening or just the fact
    Young's modulus and Hardness do not correlate easily with the mass. Or the fact that steel and concrete are a damn good combination. (This guy explaines it more or less well) I love it that armored Concrete has more HP than combat steel :p



    Well RCS are a real thing this guy here is building one at his home for his "toy rocket". It is true that the RCS in empyrion are a bit more advanced but hey EGS plays in the 24th century so i guess that is fair.

    Still i agree with you on one point. it should matter how you arrange your thruster around the center of mass but that's not the topic of the thread.:D



    Personal note: I know as a science teacher you probably know about this stuff or you at least somewhat aware of it. (Except you are one of this US teachers that are taking creationism as science:confused:) And I know physicist are great in breaking down complex matters to simple models but here you broke it down one step too far i think ;)
     
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  3. cheerkin

    cheerkin Ensign

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    In addition to what nottrox said, I'm afraid there is little science in hit points. HP is quite an abstraction, basically an ability to live through external influence (what kind of damage we are talking about? Is it thermal, or kinetic impact, or pressure etc). So as a model it's good enough and any changes to it should be considered with caution. I would LOVE to have more advanced stuff like ballistics, ricochet, overpenetration, atmospheric friction of projectiles etc, but dev resources are limited.
     
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  4. ViralGamer

    ViralGamer Ensign

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    FYI: I do not take creationism as science. Science is the study of nature, things that can be measured and tested. Also, my beliefs are not and should not be part of either my job, or this forum.
     
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  5. Sephrajin

    Sephrajin Rear Admiral

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    Basicly, if it would get it's items mass/weight/hp 'generated' by it's ingredients - Consistency - it would make alot of things easier (to calculate / guess what to expect) as I undertand you - and I see it alike.

    This said, you might want to adress / participate in this thread:
    https://empyriononline.com/threads/feedback-on-volume-mass-balancing-values.49695/
     
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  6. Moonsugar

    Moonsugar Rear Admiral

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    I think, gameplay-wise that ideas is sensible. But may i note, that in real world hitpoints are not connected to density? - compare a plate of chitin with one of lead...
    Back to the game: This would fit nicely into the path, not to store arbitrary values for every single item, but to compute them out of some basic settings. Therefore i support this idea.
     
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  7. webmaster Arcus Kogamiyta

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    Look at Boeing airplane Max . RCS/ flybywire Joinst strike fighter. They use it al, flying only with trusters arrow keys 6 direction is not working , if you want to role and pitch. For dogfighting or dogfinghts space battles PVP you want to turning and rolling as Mad max to not getting in the crosshairs. Yes turrets wil take the advantage a bit a way but still you can shoot and fight a blind spot by the enemey and go damage his vessel eating it slowly up. until you won or you self dead.
     
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  8. StyxAnnihilator

    StyxAnnihilator Captain

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    @ViralGamer Does not matter, because the game is in a fantasy universe, where the rules of physics can be whatever.
    Also it is how to code such a game that is the crucial to understand. Sometimes a fixed set of values is faster to process than do calculations.
    Another issue is to do major changes to some sections of the game, if that is needed, with probably new bugs and issues.

    There are things that seems familiar with our reality, but that does not mean that it is realistic how it works.
    As I see it, nothing of what you do in this game you can do IRL in the same way.

    Becomes up to the devs if they find your proposal usable, or if they already have such a system already.
     
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  9. ZotaOTT[RU]

    ZotaOTT[RU] Lieutenant

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    No need to reduce everything to the exact reality)! Let's simplify a little more.
    The game is terribly loading and I don’t want to buy a lot of nuclear system with 4 physical processors just to fulfill all the realistic equations).
    Network battles of PvP and just PvE on the server HWS are severely slowing down now and have a huge response time!
     
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